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RodinalDuchamp
28-Feb-2015, 06:05
Yesterday the shutter on my super angulon just stopped functioning. Some of the shutter blades seem to operate normally but one in particular is not responding to the action.

After reading extensively I have learned that the 00 shutters are some what extinct and even used ones are hard to find.

Its a shame because the lens had been performing very well and I enjoyed using it.

I have already emailed SK Grimes and am waiting for his thoughts.

Meanwhile I'd like to know if anyone has run into this same issue since this is a fairly common lens.

I have read on other forums that some medium format cameras used the 00 shutter and that they might be adaptable somehow. One other idea that comes to mind is if its possible to mount this lens to a more common O shutter.

Lastly there is this business of creating a new aperture scale. Might there be any versions of this shutter on MF cameras with the appropriate scale? If not this is one topic I have not been able to find anything on, that is creating a new aperture scale.

Dan Fromm
28-Feb-2015, 06:18
Don't look for MF cameras, look for 35 mm folders. And look hard, older Compurs (not Syncho Compur) have T settings. Your best bet is to have your broken shutter overhauled.

SKGrimes can scale shutters, IIRC they charge around $50 for the service. By the way, Steve Grimes died in, IIRC, 2002. The company is now owned by the Dau brothers.

RodinalDuchamp
28-Feb-2015, 06:21
Thanks. I'm just trying to keep my options open as it seems many hit a dead end with these shutters.

IanG
28-Feb-2015, 07:42
Beware many Compurs off older cameras don't always have cable release sockets.

Ian

RodinalDuchamp
28-Feb-2015, 08:00
That's very good to know as that's the only way I shoot ever. I'm reading a lot and losing hope on this lens.

I am using a 127 ektar in the meantime but getting the SA shutter squared away may not be a possibility.

Im thinking depending on the shops I've contacted say I might just cut my losses and look for a working 0 shutter super angulon.

Kicking myself on the rear for not getting a speed graphic.

Ian Gordon Bilson
28-Feb-2015, 19:05
I'm fairly sure some of the Kodak Retina series had this shutter.

Dan Fromm
28-Feb-2015, 19:45
I'm fairly sure some of the Kodak Retina series had this shutter.
Early Retinas might do. Late ones have Synchro Compurs with no cable release socket.

Another alternative for the OP is the #00 Prontor Press. My 47/5.6 SA came in one. Original issue from Schneider, as the camera maker requested.

IanG
1-Mar-2015, 01:31
On a temporary basis you could use a Vario shutter 3 speeds and B, There's also the Prontor SVS which is the equivalent of the Synchro Compur but not all have cable release sockets.

The other alternative is the Chinese #00 to #0 converters which allow #00 lens cells to be fitted to a #0 shutter, I think it would be wise to use a micrometer to check the spacings.

Ian

RodinalDuchamp
1-Mar-2015, 06:07
Thanks for the suggestions its good to know at the very least there is some way to make the lens functional at least in part. I looked at both vario and press shutters and I think they'd serve me for the greater part of what I shoot.

IanG
1-Mar-2015, 07:14
There's also a Prontor with better specifications, Prontor S similar, and a Pronto - like the Vario.

Ian

StoneNYC
1-Mar-2015, 10:22
Anyone who has a shutter knows that at some point needs a CLA, because at some point to get worn out, so the best thing to do is send it off for a quick cleaning repair, if you don't want to do that and can find a cheaper priced duplicate just do that, there are plenty on eBay for cheap prices, I just picked up a 00 65mm SA from a forum member, it works but timing is way off and I knew that when getting it. Your last option if you really want to go crazy is to have S.K. Grimes insert the lens into a modern Copal 0 and deal with the larger shutter but the benefit of a modern one.

RodinalDuchamp
4-Mar-2015, 10:57
Ok guys, I heard back from one of the shops. To set my lens into a new copal 0 will start around $425. A cla of the lens will most likely not fix the problem as I had someone with more experience than myself look at it and they think it's toast. I could have them CLA it anyway but that's a $100 gamble with the odds against me and then I'd be stuck with a perfectly cla'd non functioning shutter.

I've checked auction sites and have been able to find lots of options, fujinon, schneider, etc. for less than the price of a new copal 0 from the shop. The main benefit of spending the money with the shop is that it's almost guaranteed to serve for several years without problem. Would you guys opt for a reshutter which could be well over $500 or just pick up a similar complete lens/shutter assembly second hand?

Larry Gebhardt
4-Mar-2015, 12:59
I've had a few lenses in the 00 over the last few years. I still have a 65mm SA, and now that SKGrimes has given it a CLA it's back to working well. However I really hate the 00 shutter operation. The need to use B to open the shutter is a major inconvenience to me, and not worth the light weight. So if I was you and liked the lens, I'd spend the bucks and have it put in a new shutter instead of trying to find another 00 sized shutter or matching lens.

I'm keeping the 65mm lens mainly to use it on the TravelWide, when that is finally finished. There the funny operation won't bother me, and the small size will be a major advantage.

jnantz
4-Mar-2015, 15:00
hi rodinalduchamps

sk grimes and zack both machine parts for shutters that have things that are broken
or missing or don't work. they both have years of experience and both have great reputations.
often times it is much more cost effective to repair +cla, even if it means having a small part machined
than buying a new shutter, or hoping to find another lens and shutter that works. and i will bet
both repair companies would have no trouble telling you " i can't do this, you are better off buying another one"
if they couldn't do it ...

i've used both repair companies .. grimes (when steve was still with us, and with adam) , and mike at zack's ..
i would have no worries giving either of them lenses, shutters or cameras that need to be repaired ...

StoneNYC
4-Mar-2015, 22:39
I've had a few lenses in the 00 over the last few years. I still have a 65mm SA, and now that SKGrimes has given it a CLA it's back to working well. However I really hate the 00 shutter operation. The need to use B to open the shutter is a major inconvenience to me, and not worth the light weight. So if I was you and liked the lens, I'd spend the bucks and have it put in a new shutter instead of trying to find another 00 sized shutter or matching lens.

I'm keeping the 65mm lens mainly to use it on the TravelWide, when that is finally finished. There the funny operation won't bother me, and the small size will be a major advantage.

I just got a 65mm SA, I was surprised at the coverage which isn't even listed as covering 4x5 from what I can find, but almost illuminates 5x7!

But I was surprised at the missing T option and having to use B for focussing.

Does anyone know enough about shutters to say if SK Grimes can CHANGE the B to a T somehow? My standard shutter release doesn't lock (Too many issues with locking shutter releases sticking at the wrong moment).

I agree a CLA is a good idea, OR picking up a cheap second shutter that is in better shape and CLA that second one.

Or ask SK Grimes if they can put the lens into a Copal-0 somehow but send them a shutter.

IanG
5-Mar-2015, 06:55
You can pick up another lens with a good #0 shutter for 200/$300 or less.
(vhttp://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?120514-For-Sale-5x7-Film-and-Large-Format-Lenses)
Personally I'd buy a lens in a more friendly shutter, I have a 65mm SA in a Compur #00 and it's not the friendliest shutter to use for LF work, I have a spare Compur from an Ikonta with a very hazy Novar that I've kept just in case I need one but it has no cable release.

Going through my lenses & shutters I'd I'd now use a Prontor SVS or a SV, the SV on the Ikonta 523/16 (http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Ikonta_523/16) has a cable release which is crucial. I paid 1/$1.5 for my Ikonta and the shutter/lens are like new - the camera was cheap because the black paint was flaking off.

I have a spare Novar/Prontor SV in Turkey, it's brand new, it came from a closed repair shop. I'm planning on fitting the Novar cells(which are coated) into the Compur on my Ikonta 520 as the existing lens is too hazy to use. The shutter will be spare, if my wife can find it you could have it for what I paid for it 7/$10.50, she's not back for 10 days though.

Ian

RodinalDuchamp
5-Mar-2015, 16:49
I am going to send it in and have them check it see what they think they can do

JimL
5-Mar-2015, 21:18
The other alternative is the Chinese #00 to #0 converters which allow #00 lens cells to be fitted to a #0 shutter, I think it would be wise to use a micrometer to check the spacings.

Ian

Where are these converters available?

My search only turns up adapters to put a #00 shutter in a board with a #0 hole.

IanG
6-Mar-2015, 02:54
Where are these converters available?

My search only turns up adapters to put a #00 shutter in a board with a #0 hole.

It was one of the Chines sellers who had them, I've not seen them for quite a time, I had meant to buy a set. I usually buy from Heavystar, Pacemaker lens boards, retaining rings for shutters etc but he has nothing listed nor does the other main Chinese supplier. It may be they sold so few they stopped making them. There was some discussion some years ago on APUG (I think) that there might be spacing issues with them, spacing is much more critical with WA lenses.

So sorry I don't know if they are still available.

Ian

steveo
6-Mar-2015, 03:30
How difficult is it to transplant the Ikonta's running gear on to a lens board?

IanG
6-Mar-2015, 04:39
How difficult is it to transplant the Ikonta's running gear on to a lens board?

The Prontor uses a standard #00 retaining ring similar to the #00 Compur so it's really easy The reason I'd use that particular camera's shutter is it has a cable release and a release arm. Not all small #00 Prontor & Compur shutters have a cable release socket which is critical for focusing. You'll have to remove a face plate that has the focus scale and a lug for the focus stop.

I'm lucky because there's a seller at a flea market I go to who keeps shutters & LF lenses for me, so I now have spare shutters of a few types and sizes, that includes new Vario & Prontor SV - both #00, Prontor Press & Compur -#0, plus Rapax shutters that have never been used and some have blank aperture scales. Some came from another seller who had the contents of an old repair shop, one or 2 from ebay.

If it was my SA I'd use with a Prontor SV and start looking for another Compur#00 I get a regular chance to go though boxes of cheap old 120 folding cameras and with patience would find a good shutter and transfer the aperture scale and lens cells.

Ian

steveo
6-Mar-2015, 08:44
Thanks Ian, interesting. I've got a 90mm SA in 00 though is just been repaired its helpful to know a bodge can be found if it dies permanently.

What do you do about the aperture scale?

StoneNYC
6-Mar-2015, 09:57
SK Grimes sight says they can look at a shutter and CLA it for about $100, $150ish if it's a little troublesome, and if impossible to fix its $40 just to look at it. $100 for a cleaned up working shutter is a pretty good deal, if it's in bad shape still $150 isn't bad, and even for $40 just to tell you it's un-fixable is cheaper than one tank of gas... (In CT we have higher gas prices than other parts of the country, but still you get the point).

Just send it off.

I just got a 65mm SA in 00 Syncro-Compur


130346

It's also got a sticky shutter, I exercised it for about an hour and that basically unstuck it (and gave me a thumb blister) except for 1s and 1/2s which are still unreliable. I figure it costs me $50 on average for 20 images on 4x5, to have all of those ruined and then have to send the shutter off anyway to be CLA'ed after spending all that time going out, shooting, and processing, why waste the time and money, just send it off!

That's my take.

RodinalDuchamp
6-Mar-2015, 10:00
Stone that's what I'm going to end up doing. Though this experience has made me appreciate my little ektar 127. I just wish it accommodated more rise.

IanG
6-Mar-2015, 10:08
Thanks Ian, interesting. I've got a 90mm SA in 00 though is just been repaired its helpful to know a bodge can be found if it dies permanently.

What do you do about the aperture scale?


Either make a new one or use a conversion of the existing scale, depends how permanent I wan/need it to be. Often scales can just be swapped over. For instance I have a 150mm f9 G-Claron in an AGI shutter that originally would held a 75mm lens, so the actual stop is t smaller than the marked one. If I need it I've two people close to home who could make me new scales, one's a rocket research engineer so amongst the best around :D

I have a spreadsheet for all my conversions, chemical substitutes, temperatures, weights, f-stops etc.

Ian