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koh303
20-Feb-2015, 16:14
I will be restoring a commercial 8X10 aluminum camera.

Its an incredible design, with so much thought put into it, albeit somewhat optimistic as to what it would do in the end (IE screws threaded directly onto thin aluminum frames small locking nuts for massive moving parts etc.), though that said, for a nearly 80 year old camera it looks like it has survived fairly well. Even the original bellows is not in bad shape, only a few pin holes (but will be replaced with new anyways).

My 2 main questions here are:
1. Would the wooden extension bed fit the metal camera or are they completely different?

2. Would the tripod sliding block from a wooden camera fit the metal camera?

Any other notes or pointers welcome.

Will post photos as this progresses.

Ari
20-Feb-2015, 16:32
These are great 8x10 cameras, very light and pretty solid.
There are threads you can Google about modifying the front standard for tilt.
I'd stay away from mixing the wood with the silvery metal; it is such a pretty camera, it deserves to be made whole, if you can do it.

Mark Sampson
20-Feb-2015, 16:56
FYI, the Kodak Commercial 8x10 is made of magnesium, not aluminum. It is indeed a metal version of the 2-D, but I have no idea if parts from a 2-D will fit... I never saw the two together. A colleague who a Commercial in the '80s had the separate bellows extension that allows front tilt (it attaches like a lensboard). That part is worth looking for.

koh303
20-Feb-2015, 18:15
Interestingly enough, this camera has a tilting front standard (which currently does not really lock the tilt in place).
Yes - it is magnesium, not aluminum.

Can someone with experience in the matter offer advice on best polishing/cleaning with least damage for this thing?
I doubt it was a shiny metal camera when new, but most likely coated with some fixer/protectant film now all gone.
The metal is not tarnished, but has lots of crud and user/oil residue all over which will need to come off. I do not want to over do or destroy anything.

Right now i am thinking about starting with 0000 steel wool, then moving on to 400 and 800 water sand paper.

I have not yet decided if i should finish this with a real polish and buff. I know i can make it shine like a mirror, but is that appropriate?

vinny
20-Feb-2015, 18:34
I'm sure the ebay shoppers will love a restored 8x10 with mirrored finish.

Peter De Smidt
20-Feb-2015, 18:48
I'd try cleaning it with a non-abrasive cleaner first.

koh303
20-Feb-2015, 18:55
I'd try cleaning it with a non-abrasive cleaner first.

Like soap? or is there something dedicated to metal which is not abrassive like auto polish or brasso?

Peter De Smidt
20-Feb-2015, 18:59
Sure. I'd give dish soap and hot water the first go. You can always follow up with mineral spirits or similar.

koh303
20-Feb-2015, 19:03
First i need to find out if the folks in HK will make a new bellows for it with the frames built in, i am sure i will botch up gluing it to the existing frames.

vinny
20-Feb-2015, 19:29
Glueing bellows is the most nerve racking thing I've ever done. Anything with contact cement scares me.

winterclock
20-Feb-2015, 20:31
Steel wool and magnesium are not a good mix, the magnesium will rapidly oxidize from the tiny bits of steel that come off the wool (think thermite). Try Scotchbrite pads if you do need an abrasive.

koh303
20-Feb-2015, 21:07
Thanks for that, i would not have even considered that.

Tim Meisburger
20-Feb-2015, 23:19
Interesting project. I was just googling around and saw a picture of one with a wooden back attached, so it may well be that 2d parts interchange. I also found this mystery camera: http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20455914.html

Randy Moe
21-Feb-2015, 00:00
Look at the car world. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/polishing-magnesium.454374/

I think I know the one you got. I really don't suggest sanding or polishing magnesium, the shine doesn't last, the natural oxidation forms a protective coat. Or needs a clear coat or constant re-polishing.

Magnesium is also more brittle than aluminum, be careful not to crack it. The dust is not good. VW Beatles had magnesium engines, they burn very hot and are difficult to extinguish. Very difficult. I know, it was common in the 60's to light one off. Not a great idea. http://www.firehouse.com/article/11300616/firefighter-training-extinguishing-magnesium-fires

I suggest cleaning and powder coating for a nice finish. Powder coating can be almost any color. If you can find a non-food oven, powder coating can be DIY. Regular paint or clear coat won't last for years, but powder coat will.

The early C1's were also magnesium.

Car guys again. Read to the bottom. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/80107-powdercoating-magnesium-dangerous.html

koh303
21-Feb-2015, 06:38
Thanks.
I do not think i will powder coat this.
I also do not think i will polish it just yet. I will start with cleaning it all up, and installing a new bellows, or, short of that tape the original bellows so that it does not leak. There are not that many holes in it, mostly towards the front and rear ends.

Jim Noel
21-Feb-2015, 08:35
Interestingly enough, this camera has a tilting front standard (which currently does not really lock the tilt in place).
Yes - it is magnesium, not aluminum.

Can someone with experience in the matter offer advice on best polishing/cleaning with least damage for this thing?
I doubt it was a shiny metal camera when new, but most likely coated with some fixer/protectant film now all gone.
The metal is not tarnished, but has lots of crud and user/oil residue all over which will need to come off. I do not want to over do or destroy anything.

Right now i am thinking about starting with 0000 steel wool, then moving on to 400 and 800 water sand paper.

I have not yet decided if i should finish this with a real polish and buff. I know i can make it shine like a mirror, but is that appropriate?

I would stay away from steel wool except as a last resort. I had one of these great cameras a few years ago, about 20-25, and loved it. Magnesium doesn't polish to a mirror finish. It has more of a non-reflective satin sheen. Remember also that magnesium reacts rather vigorously to acids.

koh303
21-Feb-2015, 13:46
Here are some photos of the initial state and bellows taken off:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.717407435044762.1073741849.276274625824714&type=3

The handle is a new deardorff handle i had beating around but put on so it will be easier to move the camera around for now. May or may not stay this way.

Interestingly, the front frame is lined with aluminum, and was easy to handle. The rear frame is a bit more trickey, as the leather is tacked on to the frames with tiny nails every few cm, and then covered with silk liner on top of that. The glue on the rear of the rear frame is also in much better shape then the front, and i have not yet decided if i should try to re tape the bad corners, or go with a brand new bellows. This one is after all not all that bad. While the tape is a temporary solution, it might end up a better result them me fumbling the glueing of a new bellows.

On that note - can someone confirm that a D2 (only equivalent bellows i can get), is mounted in a similar way to the frame, or that the dimensions will match even roughly?

I have previously mounted a BJ 5X7 bellows which was cut for a folder on a grover camera, and despite a minor difference in dimensions there was enough play to make it fit properly. Will this be the case here?

koh303
21-Feb-2015, 16:01
https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11008416_717457531706419_7670207239949779200_n.jpg?oh=881f8c11e355d5dcb66f5ef3c3362753&oe=554C8102
Before and after cleaning and light buffing with a scotch brite and soapy water. Seems to be doing the trick.

Now off to spend some more money on bellows. Just need someone to confirm the bellows of the 2D will match.

Randy Moe
21-Feb-2015, 16:10
Whose bellows are you buying?

Just curious, I have no stake in anyone's bellows. Nor am I going to recommend anyone.

Since it appears to use wood frames, I think gluing will be easier than a C1 where the bellows are glued to the body.

Some bellows makers will install your bellows to your frames and save you the agony. I preferred using that service for my last 3 sets.

koh303
20-Mar-2015, 13:48
I have just finished this project, and wow is this a cool camera! Can't wait to get some film through it.
Here are some photos and a link to the full resto project album.
See all photos and text here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.717407435044762.1073741849.276274625824714&type=1


https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10410946_737088463076659_1477418943004317867_n.jpg?oh=6b721702006a008335409c0b5ad689fc&oe=55781F13&__gda__=1437864858_bfabf5663d2cf69d917e97f1718e648e
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10422259_737088446409994_8415338631338358874_n.jpg?oh=a8d43f0d1a291d3f10fcffe2b7bfc2c3&oe=55763689&__gda__=1433410751_c5ba689e10e6d895abb7a66a85c4e41c
https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10394054_737088519743320_776115176931733245_n.jpg?oh=5f440db7ec4182d37c2a091a0b5a31e6&oe=55AF3844

Mark Sampson
20-Mar-2015, 14:29
looks like a previous owner modified your camera to give it front tilt- that's a good thing. best of luck with it!

koh303
20-Mar-2015, 15:12
looks like a previous owner modified your camera to give it front tilt- that's a good thing. best of luck with it!

Yes - they sure did...

winterclock
20-Mar-2015, 18:25
Cool looking camera, a metal version of a wooden field camera! Looks like it had a Packard shutter at one point.

pierre506
20-Mar-2015, 19:11
good job~

e
20-Mar-2015, 21:42
Sweet!

pierre506
20-Mar-2015, 22:00
Do you have the extension rail and the base plate?

koh303
21-Mar-2015, 06:13
Do you have the extension rail and the base plate?

no. do you?

pierre506
21-Mar-2015, 07:50
I have the aluminum extension rail, but without the base plate.
I believe the base plate would be given a good balance while the bellows expanded. It would let the camera more stable.
I'd found few wooden base plates for Kodak 2D to sell, but no for Kodak commercial all-metal camera.

OMU
21-Mar-2015, 09:50
Hello,
I have a similar camera. It looks as yours before the restoration... your project inspired me to to do a similar job :-) I hope to come back with simulate photos of a restored camera :-)

It seems as it's difficult to find camera with both the baseplate and the extension rail. I have the baseplate, but missing the extension.
So, if anybody know someone who would sell a extension rail, I would be interested.

pierre506
21-Mar-2015, 21:24
Hello,
I have a similar camera. It looks as yours before the restoration... your project inspired me to to do a similar job :-) I hope to come back with simulate photos of a restored camera :-)

It seems as it's difficult to find camera with both the baseplate and the extension rail. I have the baseplate, but missing the extension.
So, if anybody know someone who would sell a extension rail, I would be interested.
Poor.
They must have been lost in the historic dust.
It will be helpful if anyone knew the wooden one to fit the metal camera.