PDA

View Full Version : 100mm lenses and shutters for 6x9



quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 16:52
Hi Folks,

I found out the hard way that a Nikkor 65mm won't really be suitable for deeply recessed lensboard. So I'm now looking at a 100mm Rodenstock Sironar and a 100mm schneider kreuznach. I assume that they're both good lenses, so I was wondering about the shutters. The latter has a synchro compur and the former seems to have a nameless something-or-other that likely came with the lens. They both look pristine and they're both described as pristine. Do the shutters both have a decent reputation for reliability and robustness? (the respective ebay sellers both have 100% ratings, so I'm not too worried about present condition).

Also, do you know if the flange diameters would fit a lensboard hole that is about 25mm's in diameter? That's about what they look like in the photos (they're both attached to linhof-type boards), but I thought I'd better make sure.

Thanks in advance.

Evan

I guess I should qualify my above statement. It's not really the Nikkor 65mm that's the problem; it's the Copal #0 shutter that's a tad too big for comfort in the recess.

Drew Wiley
3-Feb-2015, 17:13
105 Fuji and Schneider standard plastmats are affordable and excellent. I happen to own a 100 Nikkor M, which is probably the pick of the litter; but these are rare.

onnect17
3-Feb-2015, 17:42
I think Rodenstock made a 100mm apo-sironar-s. You can also look for a 100mm apo-symmar.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 18:05
Another thought just occurred to me. Could I simply pop the Nikkor 65mm into a Compur shutter? Is there a table somewhere which gives flange diameters and/or compatibility info?

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 18:08
Go here http://1drv.ms/1w0vbMD and read the catalogs. Pay attention to coverage. With all due respect, you blundered when you gave in to impulse and bought your Oschwald Arca-Swiss. You've been flailing around ever since. Take some time off from buying to educate yourself.

I've coveted the 105/3.5 Nikkor-M for ages, but it covers only 110 mm @ f/22. A Nikkor-W (100/5.6, older; 105/5.6, newer) would probably suit you better. And don't limit yourself to 100 mm lenses. A 105 will do as well for you.

My list also has information of shutters, including diameters of mount holes for standard shutters. Your board (original Ochswald Arca-Swiss 6x9, innit?) will accept #00 shutters, the lenses you're thinking of are in #0. You need another board or to have the one you already have rebored for #0. Reboring is no big deal or expense, getting another board may (I'm not well-acquainted with the original 6x9 A-S system, boards for my 2x3 Cambo are scarce) take a while.

If the Sironar is in a Synchro Compur it is fairly old. If the Schneider is a jes' plain (convertible) Symmar, it was delivered in a Syncro Compur, may have been remounted in another #0. If it is a Symmar-S, it can have been delivered in any of at least four different shutters. Newer lenses are better than jes' plain Symmars.

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 18:11
Another thought just occurred to me. Could I simply pop the Nikkor 65mm into a Compur shutter? Is there a table somewhere which gives flange diameters and/or compatibility info?

You reinforce my point that you should learn more before you spend another penny. Asking random questions here is a very poor way to learn anything.

The 65/4.5 Nikkor was delivered in a Copal #0 shutter. The cells are direct fits in a Synchro Compur #0, whose OD is ~ 4 mm smaller than a Copal #0's. I don't know what your problem is, but I doubt swapping shutters will solve it.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 18:22
Another thought just occurred to me. Could I simply pop the Nikkor 65mm into a Compur shutter? Is there a table somewhere which gives flange diameters and/or compatibility info?

Found it:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/shutter_photo.htm
Looks like the Nikkor won't fit. But the chart will come in handy.

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 18:27
Found it:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/shutter_photo.htm
Looks like the Nikkor won't fit. But the chart will come in handy.

Eh? Wot? Why won't a 65/4 Nikkor's cells fit any #0 shutter?

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 18:50
Your board (original Ochswald Arca-Swiss 6x9, innit?) will accept #00 shutters, the lenses you're thinking of are in #0. You need another board or to have the one you already have rebored for #0. Reboring is no big deal or expense, getting another board may (I'm not well-acquainted with the original 6x9 A-S system, boards for my 2x3 Cambo are scarce) take a while.



Here's the board. The flange hole is only about 25mm, so I assume that the only thing that'll fit is a Compur 00. 128906

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 18:56
Prontor Press #00 too. I have several.

But what's the problem with your Nikkor? Board needs to be rebored (no big thing, as www.skgrimes.com for a price) or shutter controls are inaccessible when the shutter is in the recess?

Interesting picture. It looks like the board has an adapter to allow #00 shutters to be mounted to it and is in fact bored for a larger shutter. Ask the seller for a rear view.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 19:26
Ask the seller for a rear view.

I already have the board with me. The main problem is that the Copal 0 -- or rather the levers sticking out of it -- is a bit too big for it. I can easily take the insert out of the board, which leaves me with a 38mm diameter hole. But the issue is still that the majority of shutters seem to have a body which is in the 60mm diameter or larger range.

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 19:31
Well, then, its time for a 65/8 Super Angulon in #00. KEH has several.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 19:36
Actually, I could take the plastic housing off of the aperture lever and bend it up, away from the part of the board that curves. And then it would be a matter of making some brass shims, so that the lens will fit snugly on the board. And I've already ordered a cable adapter to deal with that aspect. So I might still try that. And I always look on the bright side: "flailing around" with camera equipment is a lot better than spending time in the bars.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 19:45
Well, then, its time for a 65/8 Super Angulon in #00. KEH has several.

thanks. I may just go for that.
But I can't find the flangeback distance on either of these two sheets. Would it be the same as what they have listed for the 5.6?
http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html
http://www.graflex.org/lenses/lens-spec.html

Dan Fromm
3-Feb-2015, 19:51
"flailing around" with camera equipment is a lot better than spending time in the bars.

You're much more tolerant of frustration than I am. Knowing what you're doing saves frustration.

If you're convinced that you have to shoot 2x3 with a 2x3 view camera, consider selling your Arca-Swiss and getting a more modern camera. Modern ones intended for use with MF digital backs are still quite dear, even used, but there are older ones that are moderately well-supported, not too expensive and that might support what you want to do better than your A-S. In the mid-'80s, when I started thinking about moving up to 2x3 I looked into the little Galvin. Cheap, cheerful, a little crude and they have their partisans. I ended up using 2x3 Graphics, probably not the right cameras for you, until I was given a 2x3 Cambo. At the moment I have one that's surplus to need and am thinking about putting it up for sale. I'm not ready yet, and have not just made an offer to sell. There's an SC-1 (that's what I have) up on eBay right now at a silly price. There will be others, they're not that rare.

There are also very nice technical cameras -- think Horseman and Linhof -- that are affordable and might do for you. Years ago a little play with a 6x9 Linhof Color (think Technika-on-a-rail) convinced me that 2x3 view cameras weren't for me but one might suit you.

quixoticcassandra
3-Feb-2015, 20:11
I'm not sure what I'll do. I had a nagaoka 2x3 a few years ago. Absolutely gorgeous, but I didn't have enough patience. Who knows? Once I get going with the Arca Swiss, I may find that I won't have enough patience with it, either. But it remains a beautiful little piece of technology.

It's an addiction that I have. I have a 24 year old car, a 36 year old motorcycle, a 35 year old bicycle, and a 50 year old typewriter. And I still use them all. And in my eyes, they're more beautiful than their modern counterparts.

Dan Fromm
5-Feb-2015, 08:04
But I can't find the flangeback distance on either of these two sheets. Would it be the same as what they have listed for the 5.6?
[/url]

I gave you a list of links, organized by maker. Be patient, use it.

Dan Fromm
5-Feb-2015, 08:08
I'm not sure what I'll do. I had a nagaoka 2x3 a few years ago. Absolutely gorgeous, but I didn't have enough patience. Who knows? Once I get going with the Arca Swiss, I may find that I won't have enough patience with it, either. But it remains a beautiful little piece of technology.

It's an addiction that I have. I have a 24 year old car, a 36 year old motorcycle, a 35 year old bicycle, and a 50 year old typewriter. And I still use them all. And in my eyes, they're more beautiful than their modern counterparts.

If you couldn't stand the Nagaoka you won't be able to stand any view camera. If you must shoot 2x3, start thinking Mamiya Press.

I've given up on older bizarremobiles (maintenance requirements too high, no a/c), won't go near motorcycles (combine the worst features of cars and bicycles), my bike (a Paramount) turned 51 last year, and my typewriter (not used in decades) is 53.

Lightbender
12-Feb-2015, 20:15
Alternatively, you may want to look for a proper lensboard designed for a copal #0. There is a brand new one on ebay right now: item number 271312498076
Not sure if this is the right one or not.

And are you sure you need a recessed lensboard?

Dan Fromm
12-Feb-2015, 20:35
Alternatively, you may want to look for a proper lensboard designed for a copal #0. There is a brand new one on ebay right now: item number 271312498076
Not sure if this is the right one or not.

And are you sure you need a recessed lensboard?

Fair question. I'm taking the liberty of answering because I don't know whether the OP has gone away.

Believe it or not, this discussion is about finding a shutter that will accept his 65/4.5 Nikkor-SW cells and fit in his ancient A-S recessed board. The OP posted a picture of his ancient 6x9 A-S in this http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?119205-lensboard-sizing&p=1207239#post1207239 thread. I'm quite sure that he needs a recessed board to use the 65 he has in hand with that camera.

I think the board you directed him to is for a modern 6x9 A-S and won't fit his ancient one. I could well be mistaken.

Lightbender
15-Feb-2015, 00:42
I could not find much info on the ARCA swiss 6x9 models. Hope the op was able to figure it out. Always nice to see new faces around here.

quixoticcassandra
15-Feb-2015, 17:09
Alternatively, you may want to look for a proper lensboard designed for a copal #0. There is a brand new one on ebay right now: item number 271312498076
Not sure if this is the right one or not.

And are you sure you need a recessed lensboard?

Yup. In fact, the 25mm recess that I have is a minimum for the 65mm lens on there right now. I finally got all the pieces together (the last item being an adapter for the shutter release). The lens barely fits in the recess, so I've had to slightly bend the shutter lever and the aperture lever away from the board. And I had to grind off a bit of the lens closure knob.

But on a positive note, I was able to take my first photo with it today. Just waiting for a warmish day, so that I can take it out and test it on some architecture. I'll post an example some time in the next few weeks, I'm sure.

Bill_1856
15-Feb-2015, 17:33
My favorite is a 105mm f:3.7 Ektar in Kodak Supermatic shutter.

Daniel Unkefer
16-Feb-2015, 15:47
I have a Schneider 100mm Symmar that is working for me. It's in barrel mount and I use it with the Sinar shutter for 6x9 rollfilm.

Dan Fromm
16-Feb-2015, 16:08
I have a Schneider 100mm Symmar that is working for me. It's in barrel mount and I use it with the Sinar shutter for 6x9 rollfilm.

Dan, not to be a complete idiot, but are you using your Symmar in front of a Sinar(-Copal) shutter or in a Sinar-badged shutter?

Daniel Unkefer
16-Feb-2015, 17:46
Dan, not to be a complete idiot, but are you using your Symmar in front of a Sinar(-Copal) shutter or in a Sinar-badged shutter?

I use it with a Norma Shutter on the Norma and it just fits.

Dan Fromm
16-Feb-2015, 17:58
Dan, thanks for the explanation. So your 100 Symmar is in barrel.

The OP has a 6x9 Arca Swiss. If there any chance a Norma shutter could be mounted on it or on, say, my 2x3 Cambo? My first reaction is that it can't but I could be mistaken.

I think the OP has solved his immediate problem. I'm asking for selfish reasons.

Daniel Unkefer
16-Feb-2015, 18:08
My guess is that it could, although it would require some fabrication.
Folks here have put them in field and other cameras so I can't think of why not.
Of course, it depends on the Cambo.



Dan, thanks for the explanation. So your 100 Symmar is in barrel.

The OP has a 6x9 Arca Swiss. If there any chance a Norma shutter could be mounted on it or on, say, my 2x3 Cambo? My first reaction is that it can't but I could be mistaken.

I think the OP has solved his immediate problem. I'm asking for selfish reasons.