125mm or 135mm

[steveo]

I'm trying to decide upon an intermediate between my 90mm and my 150mm. I like the 90mm its just sometimes a little wide and at F8 can be very dark in low light. I'm not a fan of 150mm it feels a bit lost, not wide enough for my liking and not long enough for detail, I've hardly used it simply because often when I've set up I'll end up wider or longer with my 210mm.

Looking on eBay the Fujinon 125mm and 135mm both end up about the same price and are both F5.6

I realise its a fairly personal thing and the best option would be buy both and decide but I've not got the cash floating around for that so where is the best place to start?

[vinny]

Buy the 125 and use it. Sell it if you dont like it. Sell the 150 a d get the 135 and a 210 like me. Then you'll be shooting amazing stuff, just like the rest of us.

[Andrew]

I'll be howled down but I think the difference between 135 vs 125 is so small it should come down to condition of the individual lens/shutter rather than the focal length

[Steve Goldstein]

I'd get the 125. There's not much perspective difference IMO. Sometimes you just can't take another step backwards to get the composition you want, but you can almost always get a little bit more enlargement.

The various 125mm f/5.6 Fujinons have different amounts of coverage. All will do for basic 4x5 usage, but the older single-coated one will give you a lot more movements.

[Liquid Artist]

I do agree with you about 90mm to 150mm being too big of a jump.

Just to complicate your decision more, I have a 127mm, which I rarely use, and a 135mm which I rarely don't use.
However I don't have a 150mm (I do have a 90 I use from time to time). I feel that 150mm is too close to my 135mm to justify buying, however I wish I had something in the 180mm range.

With your kit either get the 125mm or sell the 150mm and get a 135mm and a 180mm. Which I think you may prefer in the long run.

[mdarnton]

I really don't think you can go wrong with either choice. Or an old Wollensak 108mm, either. Or a Grandagon 115mm. :-) I get a lot of use out of 135, and not my 150, skipped 125 and got a fancy 115, instead, which doesn't get much use, in favor of an old 108 WA Raptar that cost almost nothing. It's all personal taste, when it comes down to it.

[John Kasaian]

I'll be howled down but I think the difference between 135 vs 125 is so small it should come down to condition of the individual lens/shutter rather than the focal length
I agree Andrew.

[John Kasaian]

I'll be howled down but I think the difference between 135 vs 125 is so small it should come down to condition of the individual lens/shutter rather than the focal length
I agree Andrew. I'd also consider a 120mm---maybe an old Angulon.

[steveo]

Cheers Guys, I'll start with the 125mm I can always crop to 135mm. The cheaper ones are newer with less coverage but they've both got about the same image circle which looks to be fine on 4x5.

I don't think its worth selling the 150 it came with the camera and glass is a bit rough, works fine but a bit over cleaned. I had the shutter serviced while I got the 90's shutter repaired but I doubt I'd get the money I spent on the service back. It'll probably end up stuck at home if I ever get a 180mm go with the 125/135 range.

[Bob Salomon]

....The cheaper ones are newer with less coverage but they've both got about the same image circle which looks to be fine on 4x5.

That is a confusing statement.

The angle of coverage determines how large a circle the lens will cover.
The angle of view determines what will be recorded on film within the angle of coverage.

All lenses of the same focal length have the same angle of view.
And, if they both have the same image circle then they have the same angle of coverage.

So, what did you actually mean?

Just for your information, compared to the long (36mm) side of a 35mm negative.

A 125 mm would be equivelent to a 37mm lens on 35mm film.
A 135mm would be equivelent to a 40mm lens on 35mm film.

Another way to look at this is:

A 127mm (sorry, 125mm was not listed) covers 51° on 45 (the 125mm very slightly more).
A 135mm covers 48.5° on 45.

Those angles are for the horizontal angle of view.

Someone else suggested a 115mm Grandagon, that is a wide angle lens and like all modern wide angles it does need a center filter (no longer made) to even out the coverage. It is also very large compared to a modern 135mm and it is a 6.8 lens rather then a 5.6 lens.
Buy whichever one gives the best image for your purposes as the differences in what image you will capture of a sheet of 45 is immaterial.

[steveo]

The newer Fujinon W has a much smaller coverage than the older single coated W. They both project a similar image circle but they have a different angle of view.

[Old-N-Feeble]

If a 90mm lens is the widest lens you'll ever use and the longest is approximately 210mm then base your kit on that. I use 1.5x as the multiplier of lens focal length so my kit would be 90, 135 and 203 (or 210). If you're concerned that the progression between focal lengths is too great then 1.5x may seem too broad a jump. If so then you could use 1.25x (90, 110, 135, 165, 203 or 210) or 1.33x (90, 125, 165, 210).

[Bob Salomon]

The newer Fujinon W has a much smaller coverage than the older single coated W. They both project a similar image circle but they have a different angle of view.

Then they can not be the same focal length. What are you looking at the makes you say that they have different angles of view? Do they give that coverage in degrees?

[Steve Goldstein]

The newer Fujinon W has a much smaller coverage than the older single coated W. They both project a similar image circle but they have a different angle of view.

Re-read Bob's post #10.

Angle of view is determined solely by focal length. Any 125mm will look the same on the groundglass provided you're not running into limitations of coverage.

Image circle (coverage) is determined by field of view and focal length. The older Fujinons (inside-lettering) have an 80-degree field of view at f/22, which calculates to an image circle of 210mm. The newer Fujinons don't have as large an FOV; I forget whether it's 75 degrees, 72 degrees, or something else. But 75 degrees would provide a 192mm image circle, and 72 degrees would give 182mm. This relates to the amount of movement you can use before you start vignetting.

[steveo]

Then they can not be the same focal length. What are you looking at the makes you say that they have different angles of view? Do they give that coverage in degrees?

I din't say they were the same focal length, one is 125mm the other 135mm. I said they had roughly the same image circle as each other but smaller than their predecessors.

[Dan Fromm]

Then they can not be the same focal length. What are you looking at the makes you say that they have different angles of view? Do they give that coverage in degrees?

Bob, see http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm They're not all the same design.

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, see http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm They're not all the same design.

Dan,

Wasn't questioning that. I was questioning this:

"They both project a similar image circle but they have a different angle of view."

[Will Frostmill]

Dan,

Wasn't questioning that. I was questioning this:

"They both project a similar image circle but they have a different angle of view."

Bob, is he thinking of intentional vignetting added to the lens design? E.g. two lenses of slightly different angle of view, but both limited to an illuminated circle just slightly larger than the diagonal for 4x5?

[steveo]

I think my misphrased comment is causing undue confusion. I simply meant that neither lens gave significantly more moment than the other.

[Steve Goldstein]

I think my misphrased comment is causing undue confusion. I simply meant that neither lens gave significantly more moment than the other.

Within a given family that's about right. The inside-lettering 125 has a quoted IC of 211mm and the inside-lettering 135 has 228mm, both more than adequate for all but the most contorted usage on 4x5. You get a little more movement with the longer lens, but not a ton, and the perspective difference isn't dramatic. Other than the absolute numbers, that's also true within other Fujinon familes. But the various newer multicoated versions of the 135mm all have a smaller stated image circle than the single-coated 125mm.

I ran out of coverage a couple of times using a 72-degree 135mm for some landscape work, which is why I mainly now use the Fujinons. And sorry if I come across as pedantic.

[Alan Gales]

I use a Super Angulon 121mm F/8 lens in a Compur shutter for 4x5. Stopped down it will just cover 8x10 straight on with no movements. It's super wide though!

I find it a real nice moderate wide focal length for 4x5. It was dirt cheap too!