Set it and forget it tilt focusing.

[RodinalDuchamp]

I shoot a variety of similar subjects. Ground level architecture with a wide angle lens. Nothing out of the ordinary but I do it at night which makes focusing a nightmare on a f8.

In have been trying to mentally solve the focus game and think in have a solution but before I go wasting film I'd love to hear your opinions.

Hypothetically. If I were to go out during the day and focus to infinity, the furthest object in the distance I can see then tilt to bring the foreground into focus, then lock everything down and leave it alone. Would this not work to keep my focus from foreground to background on location? That is making sure nothing moves during transport.

And secondly wouldn't instill have a little leeway in composition from some rise/fall action?

My goal is to make the process as streamlined as possible so that I would just have to worry about composition and exposure not necessarily focus.

Thanks.

[Dan Fromm]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-focus.html

[RodinalDuchamp]

Dan I understand the article. However the problem is that at night visual focusing is not always possible to the degree needed. The first part of the article says its a 100% visual process. I am asking if pre tilted focus methodology might be possible and successful.

[Tim Meisburger]

Yes, It will work fine. Just like pre-focusing before dark.

[Taija71A]

... Dan I understand the article. However the problem is that at night visual focusing is not always possible to the degree needed. The first part of the article says its a 100% visual process...
___

Actually... No.
The first part of the Article says... That Procedure 1 is 100% visual.
--
There of course... Are other more 'Advanced' technical procedures for focusing a View Camera -- That are not entirely 'visual'. :)
--
Have you read Procedure II and the other 'Alternative Methods and References'... That Dan referred you to? This thread too... Contains a 'Wealth' of valuable information and additional 'Food for Thought':

http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/003Rdn

--
Regards,

-Tim.
_________

[Bill_1856]

I didn't read the article, but your technique seems sound to me.

[Doremus Scudder]

I shoot a variety of similar subjects. Ground level architecture with a wide angle lens. Nothing out of the ordinary but I do it at night which makes focusing a nightmare on a f8. ...

Hypothetically. If I were to go out during the day and focus to infinity, the furthest object in the distance I can see then tilt to bring the foreground into focus, then lock everything down and leave it alone. Would this not work to keep my focus from foreground to background on location? That is making sure nothing moves during transport.

And secondly wouldn't it still have a little leeway in composition from some rise/fall action?

My goal is to make the process as streamlined as possible so that I would just have to worry about composition and exposure not necessarily focus.

Thanks.

Your technique will work, in theory, if, and only if, you are setting your movements for one particular scene and then waiting for darkness to make the exposure. If you are planning on using one camera configuration for multiple scenes, then it is not practical at all.

Just to point out a few things relating to the bold-face parts above:

First, you don't just focus on infinity and tilt to bring the foreground into focus. Doing so will affect focus at infinity, even with asymmetrical tilts. You really need to carefully determine your focus points and then tilt, refocus and repeat till they are in focus (or, with asymmetrical tilts, get your distant point on one of the tilt lines and then tilt till the foreground is in focus, then check and readjust). You likely know how to apply tilts correctly and I'm just reacting to a sketchy description, but just to be sure...

Second, if you've tilted the front standard, applying a rise will change focus, effectively moving the lens a bit farther from the film plane, so no leeway there; you should "worry about composition" when you are applying tilt and focus everything up at that time. You'll have to set all the composition movements at the same time as tilts and check focus well before locking everything down.

Again, if you are looking for a "universal tilt" to use with multiple subjects, then forget it; it is just not workable as every subject presents its own possibility for optimal placement of the plane of focus.

When setting up for a shot and then waiting for darkness, it is really important to make sure your tripod doesn't get bumped and everything stays untouched for until the time of exposure. This is often harder to accomplish than it sounds. If you are planning to set movements, then take down and set up again, then forget it. It's just too hard to get everything in exactly the same orientation again as well as near impossible to make sure the camera stays in one particular configuration. Again, you probably aren't planning on doing this, but I can't tell that from your post, so apologies if this latter is needlessly obvious.

You might look into some other focus aids for working at night, specifically a good, powerful flashlight with an adjustable beam that you can use to illuminate objects while focusing. I have one with a laser pointer built in that works well for distant objects too.

Scoping out the scene during the daylight and finding your focus points (top, bottom, right and left) will simplify things when setting up later in the dark. Try to pick things to focus on that will be easier to find and either see or illuminate at night. Then, you'll just have to set up, make sure your four points are in focus using whatever movements you deem necessary, and then shoot. No need to check focus on the rest of the scene if you've chosen your focus points well. (BTW, this is what I do with practically every scene, night or day. I compose with a viewing card, determine optimal placement for the plane of focus, find focus points and then go under the dark cloth and just focus on those points).

Hope this helps some,

Doremus

[Corran]

I've shot at night a lot and in practice, with a bit of patience and a 10x loupe I can see stars in a dark environment. It seems to me that you will have ample light to see in your loupe from streetlights and such. When in doubt focus a bit closer and stop down an extra stop or two. I personally would not use any tilts for architecture in most situations.

[Light Guru]

As long as it's not touched you should be fine. Ben Horne who does YouTube videos of his photo trips has been known to set up his camera and leave it over night so that he can have the focus right for a sunrise shot.

[FrankS]

Forgive if my thought is out to lunch, because I'm a LF newbee: if you set up a camera as described by the original poster, with the focus plane tilted to focus on far and near distances, wouldn't that setting give the same results in other landscape shots, like a hyper focal setting? Isn't it the set it and forget it method?

[Kirk Gittings]

I shoot a variety of similar subjects. Ground level architecture with a wide angle lens. Nothing out of the ordinary but I do it at night which makes focusing a nightmare on a f8.

In have been trying to mentally solve the focus game and think in have a solution but before I go wasting film I'd love to hear your opinions.

Hypothetically. If I were to go out during the day and focus to infinity, the furthest object in the distance I can see then tilt to bring the foreground into focus, then lock everything down and leave it alone. Would this not work to keep my focus from foreground to background on location? That is making sure nothing moves during transport.

And secondly wouldn't instill have a little leeway in composition from some rise/fall action?

My goal is to make the process as streamlined as possible so that I would just have to worry about composition and exposure not necessarily focus.

Thanks.

Hmmm, I've been a professional architectural photographer full time since 1978 (and known for my twilight shots-had hundreds of covers with them) and it is extremely rare that I use tilt as it creates more problems than it solves with objects like buildings sticking up opposed to the plane I have tilted to......what am I missing here?

[RodinalDuchamp]

Hmmm, I've been a professional architectural photographer full time since 1978 (and known for my twilight shots) and it is extremely rare that I use tilt as it creates more problems than it solves with objects like buildings sticking up opposed to the plane I have tilted to......what am I missing here.
Kirk. You have far more experience than myself I am sure your suggestion is quite valid. I am just starting out and don't have a vocabulary anywhere near yours so I appreciate your insight. I have been trying to weigh using hyperfocal distance vs tilt to focus throughout. I will take your experiences as a great piece of advice. Thanks.

[Kirk Gittings]

Ok I get it. FWIW I use long exposures and small apertures-virtually never tilt for architecture shots with anything of size perpendicular to the ground. I use wide lenses (usually) a good loupe and focus on the lit windows. I never do true "night" shoots but shoot at twilight.

[Robert Opheim]

I have shot a building at night before. -but is has been been a while. The last one I did with a painting-in method with a flash. Another photographer told me what he does. He uses a small flashlights and aims them back at the camera. He positions one in the foreground and also at the rear-ground area - stop down until they are both in-focus.

[Kirk Gittings]

FWIW I never use flash for light painting but halogens so we can see the shadows and such we may be inadvertently creating. Image one above is supplemented on the inside with our lights. Image two is almost totally our lighting inside and out except the railings (this was in Vegas and we went to Lowes and bought 20 shop lights). And the Su Casa cover (which also ran twice in Dwell and is on their website) is heavily supplemented inside and out by our lights.

[Taija71A]

___

Scheimpflug's (first) Principle simple states:

That in order for the camera to be in focus... Three (3) Fundamental Planes:

1). The Film Plane.
2). The Lens Plane and
3). The Plane of Sharp Focus... Must converge along a 'Common Line'.

--
However... Scheimpflug's (first) Principle is just a constraint.

In fact... Adherence to the Scheimpflug Rule alone does not assure focus
and most certainly -- Does Not assure that 'Everything' will be In Focus.

As much as we would all like it to be a 'Magical Solution' to our View Camera
Focusing Problems... It is only a Geometric Principle ('Nothing More and Nothing Less').
--
Cheers,

-Tim.
_________

[Mark Sawyer]

It must be nice to live in a world where everything stays on a two-dimensional plane of focus. No trees, no light posts, nothing from the foreground ever sticking up into the background... :rolleyes:

[Taija71A]

... it is extremely rare that I use tilt as it creates more problems than it solves with objects like buildings sticking up opposed to the plane I have tilted to...


It must be nice to live in a world where everything stays on a two-dimensional plane of focus. No trees, no light posts, nothing from the foreground ever sticking up into the background... :rolleyes:
___

Very well stated Mark!
--
Kirk too, wishes that all of his Architectural Projects would 'Stay In Focus'...
With just a 'Simple' Tilt.

But sadly, all of the Buildings that he has been assigned to Photograph...
Are not located in that 'Part of the World'. They usually still... Just 'Stick up' from the ground!' ;)
--
Kirk, perhaps you should ask the Architects to 'Design' their Buildings...
So that they always 'Align' themselves... In the 'Plane of Sharp Focus'. LOL. :)

________

[RodinalDuchamp]

Thanks all. I believe my initial theory to be flawed.

[RodinalDuchamp]

Ok I get it. FWIW I use long exposures and small apertures-virtually never tilt for architecture shots with anything of size perpendicular to the ground. I use wide lenses (usually) a good loupe and focus on the lit windows. I never do true "night" shoots but shoot at twilight.
Beautiful work. Something to aspire to certainly.

[Taija71A]

Thanks all. I believe my initial theory to be flawed.

___

But, 'More Importantly'...
You just increased... Your Large Format View Camera 'Knowledge Base'.

'Job Well Done!' :)
--

-Tim.
_________

[RodinalDuchamp]

___

But, 'More Importantly'...
You just increased... Your Large Format View Camera 'Knowledge Base'.

'Job Well Done!' :)
--

-Tim.
_________
Yes this is very true. At the risk of sounding like an imbecile lol but all in all worth it.

I did a couple of tests this weekend and by far using a hyperfocal length of focus proved superior because as Kirk mentioned tilting caused some issues with vertical structures (trees/pillars)

Thanks

[Drew Wiley]

You can always use a strong laser pointer after dark, aim it at important parts of the subject, and focus on the beam to use your relevant view camera controls.
I recently took some 4x5 shots inside a very dim lava cave. Sure I could have used a wider lens and hyperfocal doctrine, but it would not have landed me the
quality of shot I wanted. Even with front-on architecture I prefer to use subtle tilt or swing controls. After all, not all detents on view cameras are dead-on, if you've got them at all, and not all buildings are square and level by any means, especially not old ones, and let's face it - not all carpenters were competent in the first place! But sometimes you can get in a rush to beat the light, and don't have time to do things thoroughly at the actual time of the shot, so have to wing the settings in advance. Otherwise, I rarely use hyperfocal theory, and when I do, it's apt to be with a medium format camera where I can't really home in on the fine detail as well as with a large groundglass. By contrast, my brother was formally trained in a pro photo school and routinely used hyperfocal; but my shots were consistently more acute than his, even in the same format.

[Robert Opheim]

Kirk your use of architecture lighting is wonderful - these are really great images! Flash is too hard to control and see what you are doing. If you use Lowe's shop lights how do you control the light color temperature? Or do you just balance it and make it "eye pleasing?'

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks Robert. For interiors visible in twilight shots I like the warmth of halogen/incandescent on daylight film-though we do carry a set of gels to match the green spectrum of fluorescent lights etc. in a mixed light situation. On exteriors the natural light at twilight is pretty cool so when you paint it with hot lights you get a mix that is somewhat warm. In general twilight shots are not about color accuracy but mood.