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Ari
21-Jan-2015, 09:17
Hi there,

There is scant official information on the internet about the 810M or MII, and information or questions from individuals is pretty scattered and haphazard.
I hope that I can create a page that has most, if not all, of the information needed about these fine cameras, and make it a decent resource for anyone who owns, or is considering owning, a Toyo 810M.

I'll be updating this page with my own 810M modifications, repairs and adjustments.
Right now, my camera is in good shape, but I want to allow for more extension, and that requires a little machining and new bellows.
I also replaced my Yanke GG with a generic GG on which a friend did some extra grinding work, and I'm checking that the focusing plane is in alignment with the film plane.

Here you can post photos of your 810M/MII camera, accessories, and modifications; add your list of resources, manuals (I never found a manual), repairs, etc. etc.

To get started, here is a search result of most threads related to the Toyo 810M/MII: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=site:largeformatphotography.info+toyo+810M&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
There's a lot of information there, but if anything is missing, I have quite a lot of information from e-mails and PMs which I'll happily make available.

Mods, let me know if this is not kosher; I'll move it somewhere else.

Thanks, and enjoy the ride.

adelorenzo
21-Jan-2015, 11:41
Great idea Ari, I'll follow this with interest and contribute what I can.

Ari
21-Jan-2015, 11:46
Excellent; thanks, Anthony!

Ari
21-Jan-2015, 16:14
As luck would have it, the new bellows I ordered from Rudy (Ebay seller ecbuyonline2008) arrived this afternoon.
I was hoping they'd arrive soon, and I was excited.
The reason I bought them is so that I could use my 25 1/2 Cooke; the 810M, in its normal set-up, only stretches to 650mm. Add to that, the Cooke needs 680mm of bellows draw, since the lens is used behind the shutter.

Here are the new unopened bellows:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7492/15714239264_e552c63366.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pWBzRJ)P1030273 (https://flic.kr/p/pWBzRJ) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

and the rear frame:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8609/16334904401_bf25929090.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qTsDYM)P1030276 (https://flic.kr/p/qTsDYM) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

Right out of the box, the bellows look very well-made; I had sent specifications that they compress to 40mm while providing extension of 900mm. Rudy got that part right.
The new bellows are red, made of synthetic material (vinyl?) that is not too thick, and compresses well.
As they are new, they are still rigid, but more on that later.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7550/16150785527_00648b87c2.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qBbZRr)P1030274 (https://flic.kr/p/qBbZRr) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

You can buy the bellows and the frames from Rudy, and installation is included; these cost me $350 including shipping, and took 18 days to arrive from the date of order.

Here is what my regular bellows looked like:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8653/16335796062_78aa53a173.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qTxe3f)P1030277 (https://flic.kr/p/qTxe3f) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

Ari
21-Jan-2015, 16:33
And here is what the new bellows look like:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7540/16310726056_bcc7d273b3.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qRjJAL)P1030278 (https://flic.kr/p/qRjJAL) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

Pretty snazzy.

I then removed the two screws that are in the camera rail; removing these allows the rail to extend farther, and even at its maximum, the camera is remarkably solid, with no hint of wobble, bending or movement.
You also need to slide out the rail, and re-insert it backwards; the offset front standard, when reversed, adds a few cm to the extension.

Now, I wanted to make sure the bellows were the right length and I also wanted to see how much extension $350 buys you.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8654/15716752033_5133a93689.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pWQsPk)P1030279 (https://flic.kr/p/pWQsPk) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

Old bellows: 650mm
New bellows: 850mm

We have a winner! The new bellows allow for 200mm more extension, and I know I can squeeze out an extra 10mm if I really needed it.

The bellows allow for full range of tilt on the front and back when fully extended:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8590/15714239984_b4f697f5c9.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pWBA59)P1030281 (https://flic.kr/p/pWBA59) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

Now, owing to the kind of material this is, and having just stretched the bellows out to near maximum, I was not surprised to see a little sagging when I had them at a more normal 300mm extension.

So my next step is to attach some velcro strips to the top of the bellows, near the front, and prop them up a little when needed.

If anybody has other suggestions, I'm all ears.

Last thing to check was folding the camera, and making sure the bellows compress enough to screw in the silver doodad that holds the camera secure.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7578/16150485229_7b112ce0cd.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qBaszT)P1030283 (https://flic.kr/p/qBaszT) by toyocamera (https://www.flickr.com/people/130796172@N05/), on Flickr

No problems there, the bellows felt as compressed as my Toyo bellows; amazing, when you consider that the Chinese bellows are 250mm longer.

Were there any problems with the new bellows?
Yes; I would be remiss if I didn't mention them.
The frames Rudy supplied look exactly like Toyo frames; the front (square) frame fits perfectly.
The large, rear frame took some manipulation and body English to seat it properly, so all is not perfect.
I think that, with time, the rear frame will work itself into fitting, what with friction and all.
There was also a tiny speck, a little defect on the surface of the bellows material about halfway up; I'll check it out, but it looks to be quite superficial.

Right now, I'm going to do the flashlight test for the bellows and frames before I write to Rudy to give him the "all-clear".

Cor
22-Jan-2015, 08:32
Excellent Ari!

I did buisness before with Rudy as well, no complains good service. Good to see that that camera can still fold. When I got mine the bellows were full of pin holes, a known problem with Toyo. I got a new bellows from Camera bellows, UK. This material is bit sticky, but Camera bellows assured me that that was normal for the material they used, it had to be this fabric else the camera cannot fold. Thus far no problems.

There was another problem though: I sometimes got some extra exposure on one of the side, it took me quite some time to track it down to a very tiny gap between the rear frame of the bellows and the back, it was quite hard to find it with a flash light in the darkroom, but it was there.

Probably there was a minute bend in one of the side of the frame. Anyway I tried to straighten that side as good as possible, and as an insurance I put some black linen tape over the bellows frame and the back.

No more light leaks, but you might want to check yours carefully. ..oh I see that your planned to do so..

Best,

Cor

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 08:37
Hi Cor,
Yes, the bellows are extremely well-made.
When I ordered them, I was afraid that they wouldn't fold up enough, so I asked Rudy to use thinner material. This is the cause of the slight sagging, I'm afraid. But I can work with it, using a strip of velcro when needed.
Last night I did check the bellows for leaks, and happily, there is nothing to report.
I also checked the rear frame, as I did experience this problem when I first got my camera; it was only user error, and I've since learned to be extra attentive when replacing the rear frame.
Next step is to shoot film with the new bellows and rule out any problems in a real-world situation.

Peter De Smidt
22-Jan-2015, 10:49
Looks good, Ari. I'm glad it worked out.

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 11:32
Thank you, Peter; we'll see how I fare if the bellows sag is a real problem.

Peter De Smidt
22-Jan-2015, 13:33
You could use a block of something to temporarily put between the bed and the bottom of the bellows if the Velcro idea doesn't work for some reason.

adelorenzo
22-Jan-2015, 13:36
I have to say I really like the color, the camera looks great with the red bellows.

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 13:38
You could use a block of something to temporarily put between the bed and the bottom of the bellows if the Velcro idea doesn't work for some reason.

Certainly in the field, in a pinch, that's what I'd do. I'll see how well the velcro works and go from there. Thanks, Peter.


I have to say I really like the color, the camera looks great with the red bellows.

Thank you, Anthony! It's a deeper, wine-ish colour; I was expecting bright fire-hydrant red, but I'm happy that that wasn't the case.

Neal Chaves
22-Jan-2015, 14:56
Two small pieces of Velro loop stock on the top of my bellows frame under the sliding bar lock keep my bellows seated properly and light tight.128400

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 15:10
Nice, Neal; I know others have this small problem, but both my old bellows and new bellows are seated very tightly against the rear standard.
Your photo reminds me, though, that I wanted to make a carrying strap, too. :)

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 20:19
Well, I was all set to figure out a clean, effective and unobtrusive way of attaching the velcro to the front standard and bellows, when I thought I'd try flipping the bellows upside-down instead.
After a day of storage, in which the bellows stayed in the compressed position, they looked a little better than they did yesterday; the sag was minimal, but it was there. I could see that I'd have problems.
So, I removed them, and re-attached them upside-down.
Looks better, and no sag at shorter extensions.

Here it is at about 320mm:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7492/16344969305_dd6c7bc76b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qUmeVB)

Peter De Smidt
22-Jan-2015, 20:56
Looks good.

David Karp
22-Jan-2015, 21:09
Love the red bellows!

Ari
22-Jan-2015, 21:21
Thanks, Peter and David.
After a little more peeking, I've found that it would be a little more effective, and a little more subtle, to have a strip of velcro come out from the top of the rear standard.
That way, there's no chance of it blowing in front of the lens, and I don't have to pay any attention to it once installed.
But I'll only get on that if the sag re-appears; so far, so good.

Next up: checking focus with a new GG.

tgtaylor
22-Jan-2015, 21:21
Love the red bellows!

+1

Thomas

Cor
23-Jan-2015, 04:23
Ari,

I wonder if this amount of bellows sag is really a problem, is it visible when you mount a 300mm lens on the ground glass ? OTOH that can be hard, I have been "bitten" a couple of times by a compendium stretched out to far, and it is surprising how hard it is to see that compendium stretched too far on the ground glass.

I have seen bellows with a ring attached in the middle, and than a elastic cord is used to lift the bellows.

Keep us Toyo users posted, it is very interesting !

good luck,

Cor

Ari
23-Jan-2015, 21:29
The new bellows work perfectly; I took them out today for a quick couple of photos in bright sun.
By the second photo, it had become overcast, but the good news is no light leaks and the rear frame seats just as it should.
The top corners are darkened in the first shot because I used excessive front rise, coupled with a little front tilt.
Overall, Rudy did a great job on the bellows, and I'd highly recommend using him for this kind of work.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8593/16166008729_22261a1eb9.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qCx2br)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/16326248226_83bc430393.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qSGhNo)

Ari
24-Jan-2015, 14:53
Still checking GG registration, and my testing is so far inconclusive.
In the meantime, let's talk bags and cases for the 810M/MII.

It's a large camera, 14.5" x 15" x 6.5" (37cm x 38cm x 16,5cm) so finding a case or bag for it and a few 8x10 lenses can be tough.

What I've found works for me in the rolling cases is the Lowepro Pro Roller x300 AW (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1032316-REG/lowepro_lp36699_pro_roller_x300_aw.html).
You can easily fit the camera, 4-6 8x10 lenses and lots of accessories, including a 17" laptop and still have some room left somewhere. Nice big wheels, too, and a well-made case.

For a backpack, I really love the EVOC CP35L (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086232-REG/rotor_components_evcp_35lbk_cp_35l_camera_pack.html).
Camera, three big lenses, extras and a 15" laptop are easy to fit here. Very comfortable to carry for long stretches, tough, and beautifully made. Thanks, Anthony!

Here's a photo with my stuff in it, just to show that it's not packed in like sardines in a can. The lenses are large, two of them are in Copal/Compur 3 shutters, and mounted on Technika boards.
The pack is upright, so things are drooping a little, but nothing moves in there when you're walking or hiking about.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/16332086256_4fa78e32f9.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qTddf5)

Ari
24-Jan-2015, 20:41
Let's talk ground glass. For future reference, the size of the 810M/MII's screen is 206mm x 251mm, and you have a margin of 1mm smaller.

The standard-issue Toyo ground glass is good: bright enough, and through a 5x loupe, the grain is nicely in the middle, i.e., not too coarse, not too fine.
I broke mine over the summer and went with a Yanke, which is a very good screen; brighter than the Toyo screen, and about the same ease of focusing.
Since I use a 10x loupe (my eyes aren't great), most screens seem too coarse to me, and focusing precisely has always been an issue.
Until now.

I ordered a generic plain GG off eBay that was already cut to the proper Toyo size, and sent it to a friend of mine who makes his own GGs.
He makes a beautiful screen: very fine-grained, velvety smooth, a little darker overall, but a real pleasure to focus.
He graciously offered to add his own work to the generic screen, and I love the results.
Now, checking focus is easy, everything SNAPS into focus, clearly, and without any doubt.

It's hard to tell from this photo how good the screen is (I'll have to take another photo tomorrow in daylight), but usually, the lens is clearly visible through the screen; other GGs give you a soft, blurry lens, which is less distracting, but this screen offers quite a sharp view of the lens in front of you. The reason is that the grain is so small, and that makes for brilliant focusing.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7364/16360050035_b40aaa0f6c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qVFwUc)

Ari
30-Jan-2015, 20:47
A nice feature of the 810M/MII is the protective GG cover; many 8x10 (and smaller) cameras have this. Here's what I did with mine.

The 810M/MII starts life with a green particle board for GG protector:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8596/16220817699_3c4bb1766b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qHnVYF)

It protects, but it doesn't do anything else.

A suggestion I got from a forum member was to make one out of clear acrylic, which I thought was a pretty smart idea.
That way, you can compose, even rough-focus, with the GG protector on, removing it only for critical focusing.
When I was at the plastics store, I bought an 8x10 acrylic sheet, and had them cut it to spec for the camera; cost was about $22.00.

Then, I used hockey tape (it's like black gaffer tape, but stretchier, and a LOT cheaper) to cover the edges; I made sure that the space inside the edges corresponded exactly to the dimensions of 8x10 film.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8563/16405266651_35c8bd5b2f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qZFhe2)


Why? Now I have an 8x10 frame for composing my shots so I don't have to run all over the place with camera and tripod.
The layer of tape makes the acrylic stay firmly in place, too; no more jiggling around.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/15786979983_3f20eb6f6a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q43p94)


Lastly, I traced a slightly smaller frame with a Sharpie, measured to whole plate size.
This is for shooting WPWP (whole plate wet plates), which I'll be doing soon, using a converted 8x10 film holder.
The frame lets me preview the whole plate-size composition in-camera, then I simply remove it if I need to focus critically.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/16406097082_2ee21b3b26.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qZKx5N)

So, there's a 3-in-1 GG protector, and no need to mark up your nice, clean ground glass screen.

tgtaylor
30-Jan-2015, 21:23
Apparently the MII now comes with a black acrylic GG protector although mine came with the hard plastic type that clamps to both sides of the GG. I found this out when I purchased the 810G which didn't have the protector. I called Toyo service and they asked me if I wanted the green particle board or the black acrylic. Both were priced the same so I chose the acrylic and I'm glad that I did: It won't chip or break like the older particle board would. The price was $40.

Thomas

adelorenzo
31-Jan-2015, 15:04
Great stuff Ari, thanks for sharing all your tips and tricks. I really like the one about the clear GG protector, right now I also have the green board one.

My EVOC bag came with some red padding blocks that I use on the sides of the camera to keep things snug.

Ari
31-Jan-2015, 15:28
My pleasure, Anthony; I went outside for about 90 minutes in -15˚C weather today, using the EVOC.
The bag fully loaded, with two film holders, weighs a little over 15kg, or about 34 pounds; the EVOC was comfortable and worked like a champ.
I am really glad that I got it, thanks again for a great recommendation.

chacabuco
2-Feb-2015, 09:40
Here is a manual for the 810M
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0OZzeV71h3Hcm1fdFpFVW1LRUVsZG5lVWlJUldzTWlZRE0w/view?usp=sharing

Ari
2-Feb-2015, 09:41
Here is a manual for the 810M
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0OZzeV71h3Hcm1fdFpFVW1LRUVsZG5lVWlJUldzTWlZRE0w/view?usp=sharing

Yes!
Thank you, Rob; I could never find a copy of this anywhere.

chacabuco
2-Feb-2015, 10:27
You're welcome. I just requested a copy from them a couple years ago and they sent the scan. Hope it is useful

Rob

Ari
2-Feb-2015, 10:57
Definitely useful for those who just bought their M/MII; thanks again, Rob.

As for differences between the 810M and 810MII, this is from an email forwarded to me by Chris at MAC Group.
I wanted to know why the front standard on the 810M did not rotate 180˚ to provide extra extension for longer lenses.
The letter is from Kenji at Toyo in Japan:

Dear Chris,
The front standard has identical fitting on front & rear where lens board and bellows fit.
Therefore, the whole standard can be used to rotate 180 deg.
If customer wants to extend the flange back distance, he must obtain Extension Bellows 8x10.
As the manufacturer, we would not recommend to use that way. If customer wants an extra-long set up in 8x10 format, we strongly recommend to use Toyo-View 810GII camera that has unlimited extension ability.

But they (810M/MII) are practically identical and only the difference is locking knobs.

Best regards,
Kenji

So apparently, the 810M's front can rotate 180˚. I'll try in the next few days to see if it is indeed possible.
To that end, I ordered a replacement plate from MAC Group if mine gets damaged somehow. It was a $10 part, so I think it's worth looking into.

Ari
18-Feb-2015, 20:02
Another modification coming up soon.
I've been looking into the differences between the 810M and 810MII; according to Toyo Japan, the only differences are cosmetic, the knob covers on the MII are black and the knobs are made of metal.
But why can the MII's front standard rotate 180˚ to provide more extension, and the M can't do this?

I suspected the reason to be a support plate found under the front standard; see the first photo, it is part #10 in the diagram.
You can't see the bottom of part #10 in the diagram, but on my 810M, it has two prongs coming out of it that fit into the two semi-circular grooves in part #20.
I also suspected that the replacement part, if I ever needed it, would come from the MII's parts inventory.

So, on a hunch, I ordered it from MAC Group, and it arrived to them today; the technician sent photos of the top and bottom, and sure enough, there are no prongs on the replacement part.
By next week, I'll have the part and I'll install it to see if it will work properly. I will, of course report back here.

MAC told me they ordered a few extras, so if you have an 810M, and want to have a rotating front standard, you'll be in luck (if this works).
Cost was $19 for the plate, and $10 for shipping; worth a try, in my opinion.

See you next week!

Ari
24-Jun-2015, 15:49
Re-posting this since the photos have since been moved from their initial place.

I've had a number of distractions lately, so I didn't get to this until recently. I finally found some time when Luka, friend and watchmaker, paid me a visit. I put him to work on switching out the plates on the front standard.
The problem I encountered back in February was a very tight screw in the front standard. The screw is underneath the silver cap, see photo:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/355/19129328685_9d705f1d21_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v9oNXP)


What Luka quickly discovered was that the screw loosens by turning to the right, the opposite of the usual procedure; I could have easily ruined the screw, but luckily, I didn't force it back then.
We swapped out the old plate for the new plate; bottom of old plate shown here:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/259/18941606750_68029bdeb4_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uRNFLJ)


The two prongs are what prevent the front standard from rotating 180˚; the new plate is black and has no prongs.
That, in a nutshell, is the main difference between the 810M and 810MII: a $10 plate.

After installation, the new plate worked perfectly. The standard still has zero-detents and it doesn't require a worrisome amount of force to turn it around 180˚.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/304/18506799944_9b4aea8e4b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ucobRE)


What's also nice is that swing movement is now limited only by bellows; everything locks down as tightly as before, so the camera has only been improved, not ruined or affected adversely in any way.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/400/19103154756_858cfa0c73_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v75Enb)


So when I want to use longer lenses, I have the needed bellows; the procedure is much simpler now: unlatch bellows at front standard, rotate standard 180˚, re-attach bellows.
Installation time was about 15 minutes.

One more thing to note: there is a pin that protrudes from the bottom of the standard; it can be removed with a small flat screwdriver. This pin is what gives zero clicks, so don't remove it; it is not what permits rotation of the standard.

pierre506
25-Jun-2015, 00:29
Dear Ari,
I found 810 M couldn't use lenses less than 250mm.
What's the problem? I couldn't find a solution to use the lenses shorter than 250mm. The base will be into the picture if I use 240mm lens.
There must be a way to use wide angle lenses.
How do I do?

Cor
25-Jun-2015, 00:41
Pierre,

I am not Ari, but I do have a 810M as well: I use up to a Angulon 165mm. AFIAK I have no problem with the bed with this lens as long as the back is in landscape orientation. Switching to portrait I tilt the back backwards, tilt the front standard also backwards the same (maximum) amount and I raise the front standard.

Hope this helps and I am sure Ari will provide additional info.

Best,

Cor
Dear Ari,
I found 810 M couldn't use lenses less than 250mm.
What's the problem? I couldn't find a solution to use the lenses shorter than 250mm. The base will be into the picture if I use 240mm lens.
There must be a way to use wide angle lenses.
How do I do?

Ari
25-Jun-2015, 02:32
Hi Pierre,

Cor has had the same experience as I have had, namely, that a lens shorter than 240mm can be used on the 810M.
I use a 150mm lens and I don't get the bed in the frame, even in portrait orientation. Here is such a shot:

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3931/15565545165_d944d4ebe8.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pHtuhn)

The lack of a sliding rear standard is the price to pay for stability, I suppose.

Are you using a recessed lens board, perhaps?

pierre506
25-Jun-2015, 03:52
Thank you, Cor & Ari.
I will try that way.
I don't have a recessed board.

adelorenzo
25-Jun-2015, 20:04
I've shot the 120mm Nikkor on my 810M without getting the bed in the frame.

pierre506
9-Jul-2015, 14:33
136604
~~~

cikaziva
9-Jul-2015, 19:15
its time for me to pitch in as i am Luka form Ari's post and give my 2c on this 810m and mod Ari and i did on his camera. I dont own 810M but i would love to, Camera is really nice solid as my 8x10 monorails but really nice and compact, but hey you all know that. what i would like to share with a group is how well this thing is made! am hard to impress when it comes to tight tolerance and well machining but this camera is one of the best metal field camera i ever worked on. Linhof Techikas are joy to open up but they are totally different then this Toyo, complex, lot of parts in many ways over engineered. toyo is different, it looks like it has minimal amount of parts to do some function and yet everything is on high spec and everything works perfect together. Minimal engineering, maximum manufacturing spec. I never owned 45A before but now am looking for one and i hope one day i will get 810M as well

just my 2c

tgtaylor
13-Jul-2015, 12:35
I've shot the 120mm Nikkor on my 810M without getting the bed in the frame.

It will in portrait orientation with front fall.

Thomas

Dustyman
2-Jul-2017, 17:22
So today I packed up my 810MII to shoot some field portraits. I lifted the folded camera out of the case and, to my dismay, several pieces of metal fell to the ground. The front standard knob fell off and the standard separated from the bed. The plate just below the standard fell out as well, as did a very thin (almost paper thin) black flat washer.
I packed up everything and came back to the studio and proceeded to reassemble. I believe the very thin flat washer (aluminum?) goes just under the knob, between the knob and the standard (as opposed to between the standard and the plate below it).
Everything works, but I am noticing a very rough feel to the lateral shift. Metal against metal. Am I missing a piece? or did I mess up the re-assembly?
Perhaps it just requires some lube between the two plates that rub together? If so, what type of lube is recommended.
I rarely use shift, so I'm not really sure if the roughness is new or if it just supposed to feel rough.

If anyone had a schematic of how the front standard (from the large knob downward) assembles, along with parts diagram, that would be appreciated. Just need to know if I did this right or if I'm missing any pieces.

Thank you for your input.

Ari
2-Jul-2017, 19:30
Best thing is to call MAC Group and ask the Toyo department for a schematic; if any parts are missing, you can buy them from Toyo.
The shift is not geared, but it should be smooth nonetheless. I never saw lube in that area, but I may be mistaken about that.

Dustyman
2-Jul-2017, 19:47
Thank you, Ari. I have an email out to them and awaiting a reply. Actually I was hoping you might shed some light in this as I see you have disassembled that knob and plate area in the past.
Any recollection of a flat washer or two?
I moved it from just under the knob to under the standard (between the standard and the plate) and it seems much smoother now. I'm just not sure if there should be another washer under thew knob as well.

Also, is there a trick to removing the knob once the tiny screw takes grip? (the one that screws in the opposite direction than normal).

Ari
2-Jul-2017, 20:21
Dusty,
I've been without the Toyo for a long time now, my memory of the disassembly is shaky at best.
I don't remember a flat washer under the knob, but there probably was one under the standard, which jibes with your improvement in performance after moving the washer to under the standard.
And for the life of me, I don't remember the trick with the reverse-screwing knob; again, a call to Toyo is probably going to be more helpful than leaning on my muddled recollections.
I do recall playing around with that part of the disassembly for a while, then there was an "a-ha!" moment over something, so perhaps the answer will come to you after a bit of toying around; just don't force the knob, that's what I do remember.
I wish I could be of more help, good luck.

Dustyman
5-Jul-2017, 12:40
Mac Group sent me over an exploded view parts schematic and I attach it here in case anyone cause use it...

Cor
6-Jul-2017, 05:36
Mac Group sent me over an exploded view parts schematic and I attach it here in case anyone cause use it...

Thanks! I filed it, hope I never need it, but just in case. Quite amazing how many parts it takes to make a relative "simple"camera..

Best,

Cor

Ari
6-Jul-2017, 07:59
Thanks! I filed it, hope I never need it, but just in case. Quite amazing how many parts it takes to make a relative "simple"camera..

Best,

Cor

Glad this got posted here.
I always considered the Toyo 810M/MII to be an "overbuilt" camera; this PDF shows just that.
The ~16 pounds of weight is the necessary trade-off for what is probably the most stable 8x10 field camera ever built.

Dustyman
14-Jul-2017, 10:03
I'm looking for a history of the 810M series. How the camera was developed and, if possible, who the designers were. Really, any info would be appreciated. Sales stats, well-known photographers who use (or used) them, etc. I know Sally Mann used it for a time.

At the every least, I could use production dates of the various 810M iterations.

Anyone have this info on hand?

Thank you

Ari
14-Jul-2017, 12:49
I'd contact MAC Group again; they are a good resource for almost everything Toyo.
When I found out about the differences between the 810M and 810MII, I was put in touch, indirectly, with the designer at Sakai (Toyo) in Japan.
The head of parts/repair at MAC acted as a liaison while I figured out what I could do to get my M to act like an MII.
So they can put you in touch with the right people, and I suspect you'll need a Japanese/English translator.
Good luck!

pierre506
15-Jul-2017, 07:46
I'd contact MAC Group again; they are a good resource for almost everything Toyo.
When I found out about the differences between the 810M and 810MII, I was put in touch, indirectly, with the designer at Sakai (Toyo) in Japan.
The head of parts/repair at MAC acted as a liaison while I figured out what I could do to get my M to act like an MII.
So they can put you in touch with the right people, and I suspect you'll need a Japanese/English translator.
Good luck!
Great

通过我的 VIE-AL10 上的 Tapatalk发言

timparkin
3-Aug-2017, 12:40
Thought you all might like a photo I took with the 810MII and a 800mm lens (Nikkor T)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/timparkin/5640827032/in/dateposted-public/

One of the first comments shows the fun I had keeping it totally stable (overkill but it worked!).

Also here is a photo taken using the 110XL. I had to crop a little bit off the bottom of the image as the bed was in the photo despite tilting the back and front (drop bed) as far as they would go.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/timparkin/5450255203/in/dateposted-public/

Tim

Ari
3-Aug-2017, 13:01
Impressive work, Tim; I got a chuckle reading about your set-up on the first shot. Where's Wally, indeed.
I'm still without an 8x10, and do miss the 810M for many reasons, but I'm sure that lugging it around as much as I did caused a slipped disc or something.
So I'm looking for a lighter camera now, knowing that no other field camera will equal the 810M for stability.

tgtaylor
11-Apr-2018, 20:38
I Took the MII out this afternoon to test the optics on the 760mm Apo-Nikkor lens that I had just acquired. I installed the Toyo long bellows (1200mm) but the camera lacked sufficient extension to bring the lens into focus. I reversed the front standard (a feature on the MII) which provided the extension necessary to bring the lens into focus with a little room to spare. The front standard on the MII allows a bellows to be attached to either side so it would seem to me that one could attach a second bellows, say the 700mm standard bellows, for an overall 1900mm extension. Of course you would need another front standard attached to a tripod for the lens and this poses a problem. In my case I could use the front standard from my Toyo 4x5 Robos which would have to be mounted on the front tripod on a rail but it seems doable.

There is a 1200mm Nikkor T-Ed lens with 1 310mm IC that will work with the 1200mm long bellows but I'm afraid that the extension wouldn't be sufficient without a second tripod and standard. Thus the 760mm (or possibly 800mm T-Ed) is the longest lens you can use with the MII without resorting to a 2d front standard and tripod.

Thomas

Ari
13-Apr-2018, 06:17
Nice, Thomas.
I don't know how much the 1200mm Nikkor weighs, but I've used several larger lenses in Copal 3 shutters at maximum extension, and the Toyo was still rock-solid.
This camera never ceases to amaze me.

Just a reminder to those who have the 810M, and not the 810M II: you can convert your I to a II by following the instructions starting on page 1.
The you'll have an 810M that is capable of reversing its front standard and obtaining these very long extensions, and for less $$$ than had you bought an MII.
Longer bellows - with frames - can be had for a reasonable price from Rudy at ecbuyonline2008 (on eBay).

peterle
9-Dec-2018, 10:14
Hi,

I just discovered this LF forum. Great ! I live in Germany, Dortmund. A few days ago, I bought an TOYO 810 M but the bellows are with a lot of pinhols.

Question: Can I exchange the old bellows with new ones mentioned in the thread above (ecbuyonline2008). I'm able to use a srewdriver but I never had done this kind of operation. Can you give me some suggestions how to do this. Does I need to glue anything or fit the bellow in the frame with no problems ?

Thank you.

Cor
10-Dec-2018, 07:32
Welcome !

I too have a 810M, which bellows were shot, a common problem with older (?) Toyo cameras. I got my new bellows from Custom Bellows in the UK. I had to send the old bellows with the standards, and they fixed the new bellows to the standards/frames of the old bellows. I did have a light leaking problem , the back frame did not fit exactely, it was very hard to see, but it did fog my film there. Not sure when the warping happened. So if you have the new bellows, check their seating very carefully.

Do not know if ecbuyonline provides the same service, send them a mail ?

good luck,

Cor

Michael Graves
10-Dec-2018, 08:47
...Do not know if ecbuyonline provides the same service, send them a mail ?...

I had Ecbuyonline do a red bellows for my Toyo 810M. For an additional $30.00, they mounted the bellows to a set of frames I sent them. They did not have frames available at that time. They came out great.

Ari
10-Dec-2018, 09:00
When I ordered new bellows from ecbuyonline, I asked for, and received, new frames already mounted to the bellows.
The frames cost extra, of course, but it saved me from having to ship my existing frames to Hong Kong.
They fit great, no light leaks.
Send Rudy an email and ask if he has any frames available.
Good luck!

peterle
10-Dec-2018, 13:48
Thank you for your fast and honest reply on my request. I will update the "bellow story" when everything is mounted ... (hope so !)

peterle
7-Jan-2019, 08:02
Thank you for your fast and honest reply on my request. I will update the "bellow story" when everything is mounted ... (hope so !)

I got the new bellows from ecbuyonline2008 on ebay. Fast shipping (14 days) to germany December, 28. Simple way to mount rear standard to the new bellows, front standard is a little bit tricky... The new bellows are a little bit thicker than the original material, so the screws are not long enough. I exchanged the screws in longer ones to fit frame and thickness of the bellows material. I put on a little bit to much glue for the front frame - but this issue was not really important.

Conclusion: Very sturdy bellows - much better then the original ones. No problem to fold the camera. No light leaks. Time to assemble all together: 4 hours because of "difficult" mounting operation of the front frame (see above).

Thank you for all previous information in this thread - without your input I wouldn't have been able to finish the operation successfully !! Happy New year 2019.

Regards

Peter

Ari
7-Jan-2019, 18:21
Glad to hear it, Peter; that's why we create these kinds of threads, to help others.
Very happy it worked out well, and that Rudy is still doing solid work.