B&W Film Choices for landscape work?

[JZ]

I am looking for a 4"x5" black and white film for landscape work and having no prior experience in B&W I'm not sure where to begin. I work primarily in Fuji Velvia 50, so I'm thinking a equivalent type of B&W might be a good starting point. My selection here is somewhat limited, so a list of some good films to start with would be great. Thanks.

[Steve Hamley]

JZ,

Most B&W photographers develop (pun intended) a film/developer combination that they like. Unlike color transparencies where you don't have as wide a choice of developers and can't "push" or "pull" much, B&W photograpy requires that you assess the film in context of the developer and development.

Best place to start is a good textbook on B&W photography and websites specializing in such.

Steve

[John Kasaian]

Fortepan 200 is a great film marketed in the US under a variety of names , ie J and C Classic and Arista .edu. Ilford is available under it's own label as well as Ultrafine Pro, Arista Pro, and others . There is also Efke in ISO 25 and 100 and Kodak TMax and TriX. Each emulsion I find is subtley different but all the ones I've mentioned are super performers---I've long since given up blaming the film for my own inept use of the stuff! ;-) There are more emulsions available, but these are the ones I've tried in 8x10. If your into really slow speeds, check out the Efke 25 from J and C.

Cheers!

[MIke Sherck]

Steve is absolutely right, JZ. It isn't like there are 5000 landscape photographers out there all using the same film. Also, the solution doesn't consist of just a film alone, as Steve mentioned. Films give different results in different developers. Personally, for enlargements I like Kodak's TMax 100 developed in straight D-76; for contact prints I like Bergger 200 developed in PMC Pyro.

I occasionally photograph with a group of LF folks; in a group of a dozen photographers, all photographing the same area on the same day, you'll probably have ten different film/developer combinations. And even for the few who, like me may be using TMX 100 in D-76, I know for a fact that we *all* have different exposure/development time combinations.

It's really true what they say in the books: you have to find your own "winning" combination. There aren't any shortcuts. Good luck! Even the search is fun!

Mike

[David A. Goldfarb]

As the others have said, all the b&w films that come in 4x5" are very capable, and it's a matter of finding the one that suits your taste and working methods.

[Eric Leppanen]

Here is one lab's subjective take on some of the various emulsions out there (specific to their particular developer; also click on "large format" for their sheet film recommendations): http://www.dr5.com/Filmreview.html (http://www.dr5.com/Filmreview.html)

Here is a sample thread from the APUG forum:
http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10801&highlight=film (http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10801&highlight=film)

Here are a couple threads from the photo.net black-and-white forum:
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006Ly1 (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006Ly1)
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005JGS (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005JGS)

And here is some reading homework courtesy of J&C:
http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=12 (http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=12)

This of course is just the tip of the iceberg. Have fun!

[Ralph Barker]

pssssst. But, you might try Ilford FP4+ developed in Ilford DD-X first. ;-)

[Brian Ellis]

You don't say whether you plan to do your own processing or not (though I hope you are, one of the nice things about black and white film is the ease of processing it at home and cthe control doing it yourself gives you).

However, if you you aren't processing it yourself then just ask the lab what film they recommend for whatever developer they use. If you're doing it yourself I'd suggest Ilford HP5+ in Kodak D76 as a good starting point. D76 is a very good general purpose developer, it's been around for something like 100 years. Ilford HP5+ is a faster film (I rate it at 200) than you're used to, which will make it nice when those gentle breezes blow the foliage around. It gives nice tonal gradations and is tolerant of minor processing/exposure errors.

A second possibility is TMax 100 in D76. It's a fine grain film and will be particularly good if you plan to make enlargements in the 16x20 and up range. It has a reputation for being finicky and intolerant of minor errors but as long as you maintain good darkroom procedures (mainly consistency in time, temperature, and agitation) it's fine. The main reason for suggesting it though is the fact that you may want to use Readyloads one of these days and it's one of only two black and white films that are available in Readyload/Quickload form so it's not a bad idea to get used to using it.

[Steve Bell]

I'm pretty much in the same boat, other than I've regularly used B&W in 35mm and 120. Now I've just started using 4x5, I wanted to use my 'standard' combination of Ilford Delta 100 in ID11 1:1, but can't due to non availability. Other than shooting some practice test shots in Fp4+, I may try TMAX 100, and if I like it, standardise on it for 4x5. My reasoning being I can use it in my DD slides, and if I'm away from home for a while photographing, I can switch to readyloads, as TMAX 100 is available in both, very flexible. I don't think any other B&W film has those advantages. All I need to do is check it out in D76, TMAX developer and perhaps Paterson FX29 to see what developer combination I like.

[Gem Singer]

Hello JZ,

The best advice I can offer to you is to get hold of a copy of "The Film Developing Cookbook", by S. Anchell and B. Troop. Read it from cover to cover. Then you will know everything you need to know about selecting the proper B&W film and processing it. There are very few labs that still do B&W film processing. Therefore, at least, plan on developing your film yourself. Then, you can either scan it, or have it scanned. It can be printed either digitally, or in a wet darkroom if you prefer.

[Bruce Watson]

I second most of what's been said so far. In addition to Eugene's reference to The Film Developing Cookbook, I recommend reading Ansel Adams' The Negative to give you a good solid background of what you can, and can't, do with B&W film, and why it's important.

[Robert Skeoch]

I use t-max 400 in most cases, but also like t-max 100.

[Stan. Laurenson-Batten]

By all means read up on the photographic subjects.

However, there is no substitute for hand on learning. It is pointless to try and emulate past photographers; their working methods equipment and materials were very often different to those of today, in their day they were often controversial.

There is no substitute for your own experimentation. Use well tried modern materials and methods.

Be sure to keep records of your work - even the failures. Eventually you will hit on a modus operandi using chemical brews
and films that could well become your trade mark in the photographic world.

I too use Velvia 50 for colour work and Ilford Delta 100 for B&W.
I process in a Jobo CPP2 and use ID.11/D76 or liquid Aculux or Rodinal. With these choices I am able to get the trans/neg. results I require.

Good luck and stay enthused!

[Eric Leppanen]

As Steve mentioned, one variable is whether you want to use Readyload/Quickload-packaged film or not. Only two black-and-white emulsions are available with this packaging: T-Max 100 (Readyload) and Fuji Acros (Quickload). Readyloads/Quickloads are expensive and obviously limit the emulsions you can consider. However, if you already use Quickloads for your Velvia 50 then this may be a good way to go, as you can write field notes/development instructions directly on each individual sheet film package. This can be invaluable on long trips where repeatedly reloading film holders is required; without Readyloads/Quickloads, you'd otherwise have to sort your exposed B&W film negatives per development requirements (push two stops, pull one stop, etc.) which is a hassle.

I use Quickload Velvia/Provia 100F and Readyload T-Max 100 for my field work. The latest generation Kodak Readyload film holder is compatible with both package types. I chose T-Max because I have my film processed in Xtol at my local black-and-white custom lab, and Acros tends to be very contrasty when processed in this chemistry.

[Robert C. McColloch]

Thirty years using Tri-X 4x5 with HC-110 and never a dissapointment.

[JZ]

Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate it. I don't currently have space for a development area so for now I think I'll just see what my local shop sells for fine grained B&W sheet film and if they can develop it, and then experiment from there. Thanks again for the responses, they were very informative.

[John Kasaian]

Josh,
A 2'x3' flat surface will give you room to spare if you want to use a Unicolor processor for developing your sheet film. The 8x10 print drum will accomodate four 4x5 negatives. The same dark space you use to load your holders will serve to load the unicolor drum.

[David Beal]

One thing which has oft' been repeated on the Ilford forum is that T grain films (Delta 100, 400, 3200 and TMX, TMY, TMZ) are better for landscapes than traditional grain films such as FP4+, TriX, Neopan 400 and HP5+, which are reputed to be better for portraiture because of better rendering of mid-tones.

Having said that, YMMV. Fuji Acros, shot at 80 and developed in Rodinal 1:50, can produce some stunning results.

Good shooting.

/s/ David
David Beal ** Memories Preserved Photography, LLC

[john borrelli]

I think Fuji Acros is a black and white version of Fuji Velvia, but if you are shooting landscapes it is a finicky black and white film(like Velvia is finicky). As others have mentioned, if you are doing your own processing and have some expertise no problem, but if you plan on taking your film to a lab, you might want to try a film like Ilford HP5+ or TriX to start. I have experience with HP5+ and you'll love the extended range of values you'll get with detail in the shadows and highlights compared to a color slide film like Velvia.

[Ed Richards]

> I don't currently have space for a development area so for now I think I'll just see what my local shop sells for fine grained B&W sheet film and if they can develop it, and then experiment from there.

Does not take much room. You will have to have a changing bag anyway, so you can use a daylight drum for processing and do it at the kitchen/bathroom sink.

[Thomas Greutmann]

I shoot mostly B&W landscape. I use both TMax 100 and TMax 400, TMax 100 in Readyloads for subjects with a "normal" contrast range, TMax 400 exposed at 200 with reduced development time for subjects with a high contrast range (e.g. bright sunlight in summer). So I usually carry a combination of Readyload films and films in regular holders or Grafmatics. I prefer the Readyload system, if there was only a TMax 400 in Readyloads...

I use D76 for development, rotary development in Jobo 2500 series tanks. I agree with Ed, you don't need a permanent development area. I use a changing bag/tent and daylight tanks and I set everything up in the bathroom when needed. It even works in a family of four.

All the other film/developer combinations mentioned here probably work just as well. I have not tried those. I guess it is more important to pick one of the many combinations available, stick with it and get familiar with the peculiarities of the combination, so you can optimize the results.

Greetings, Thomas

[Daniel_Buck]

I have been shooting almost exclusivly Tri-X 320 (most of my shooting is landscapes or rocks & trees). It seems to be very forgiving (I'm using HC-110 and TF-4) and easy to use. Tri-X 320 probably isn't the finest grain film, but I like a bit of grain. hardly any grain for 2-3 time enlargements though.

I haven't used others to compare, but it's been doing fine for me and I have no need to try out other films. I suspect this will be the same for you as well, once you get your developing dilution & times down pat to what works for you and your film of choice. No matter what film you are using, it'll probably do just fine once you get the development that matches what you are looking for. :-)

[Amund BLix Aaeng]

I`m pretty sure the OP found a suitable film in the four years that has passed since starting this thread. ;)

[Kuzano]

OK... not funny. But I will ask you a question as "devils advocate" before I attempt an answer. Or, I will presume an answer and make a suggestion, to cut the response time frame.

Do you, or at what point in the process, envision your images being converted to digital. Obviously you are going to shoot and process film. But after that, will you have the negs/transparencies scanned to digital, or will you print from negatives.

You obviously have experience with Fuji Transparency, so does it make sense to start using Black and White film? I have a friend who has been shooting Large Format landscape for years. Since he started scanning his images and discovered the power of Photoshop, he no longer shoots anything in Black and White. He says it makes no sense to capture less than the full set of data in a scene, which includes the color information. He does his conversions to B&W in the computer now. With all the conversion plugins that apply special effects to image files, what he says makes sense to me. Grab the whole image while on site. sometimes it's nice to have the flexibility to produce the final output in either color OR B&W.

I suspect this may raise some interesting responses, and I am truly interested in hearing what others think and how they respond to this idea.

[Daniel_Buck]

if I could process color film as easily as I process tri-x, I would convert my B&W shots from color film no questions asked. :-)

[Steve Gledhill]

[QUOTE=Steve Bell;92772] ... Now I've just started using 4x5, I wanted to use my 'standard' combination of Ilford Delta 100 in ID11 1:1, but can't due to non availability. ... QUOTE]

Have I missed something here Steve - or have you? Ilford's current product availability lists shows both Delta 100 in 5x4 sheets and ID-11 as being available.

[Steve Bell]

Steve, I have no problem obtaining 4x5 Delta 100 now. The post you referenced was made on 27-Dec-2004, when Ilford was in trouble. Thankfully those days are past and my fridge and freezer are well stocked.

[Steve Gledhill]

Steve, I have no problem obtaining 4x5 Delta 100 now. The post you referenced was made on 27-Dec-2004, when Ilford was in trouble. Thankfully those days are past and my fridge and freezer are well stocked.

Oooops. One of the hazards of the revival of an old thread!
But I do confuse the

[Steve Gledhill]

Steve, I have no problem obtaining 4x5 Delta 100 now. The post you referenced was made on 27-Dec-2004, when Ilford was in trouble. Thankfully those days are past and my fridge and freezer are well stocked.

Oooops. One of the hazards of the revival of an old thread!
But I do sometimes confuse the post date with the join date!

[Savant]

About four months ago I started using Fujifilm Acros. I live in a very small apartment, and I have no access to a darkroom. I have been relying very successfully on a professional lab for processing. It is my belief that I am probably their only customer shooting 4 X 5 Acros, it is possible that they adjusted their processing of this film to suit my exposure of this film, but I do not believe so. From the start my exposures and their processing seem to be very good.
There is one extreme custom lab processing this film here in Berlin, but I use just a good professional lab.
I am shooting portraits with 120, and landscapes with 4 X 5.
I have not perfected visualization of which filter to use with my landscapes, I just need to shoot more film and keep using my filters. This film does respond differently to filters, than T-Max 100, filter factors seem to be a little different also.
Looking at Fujifilms data page, it appears that the use of a red filter is ok, I was not sure with the fall off just beyond 600 nanometers. I will shoot some with the red filter next outing.
This film is Beautiful, beyond a doubt, I hope everyone uses it to keep Fuji making it.

[ki6mf]

Hp5 shot at iso 200 d 76 diluted 1 part developer to 2 parts water cant go wrong! If contrast is off move iso one way or the other probably up to iso 300. Make sure all chemistry is in water bath at 68 degrees F