View Full Version : extreme wide angle optic on a Toyo A II

26-Dec-2004, 14:54
If I mount a Schneider SA 47 XL on a Toyo field 45 AII with a recessed lens board of course, will the bellows be so much compressed when lens is focused at infinity, to prevent front shifts? The instruction manual of the camera says I have to employ drop bed for the 47XL, to what extent will this burden the movements on camera? Will a slight front shift be possible while drop bed is engaged? I would very much appreciate your comments.

Merci d'avance pour la réponse.


26-Dec-2004, 15:09
I used to own a 45AII, but I never tried to put a 47mm on it. My shortest lens was a 75mm Grandagon-N, which I had to mount on a recessed lens board to have any sort of movements - even with the recessed lens board, there was very little flexibility for movements.

I would therefore have to say that with a 47mm lens you would have little if no movements. Sorry.

Ralph Barker
26-Dec-2004, 15:25
I just took some measurements on my 45AX, Rebecca, and I think you'll find that with the 47mm mounted in the recessed board, your bellows will be almost completely compressed. Thus, aside from rise to re-center the lens after dropping the bed, you won't have much room for front swings, but shift is limited to a lesser degree. Then again, the coverage of the 47mm is pretty limited anyway.

Louis Jensen
26-Dec-2004, 16:50
I have a 65 mm SA on a flat lensboard, Toyo AX camera. There is almost no room for movement.

Gem Singer
26-Dec-2004, 17:05
Hi Rebecca,

The 47XL will just barely cover the 4x5 format before it runs out of image circle, so don't worry about movements. The recessed lensboard for the Toyo 45AII sets the lens backward about 12.5mm. The minimum focus for that camera is about 75mm. Subtract 12.5mm from 75mm and you will realize that a lens in a recessed lensboard would need to focus at infinity at more than 62.2mm. The shortest lens useable is probably a 65mm. I have heard of people using a 58XL, but I don't know how they did it. I found, when I used my 45AII, that I needed to drop the bed, in order to avoid clipping the front of the focusing rack , when I used my 75mm lens in a recessed lensboard in the vertical configuration. A 47XL won't focus at infinity on a Toyo 45AII.

Ralph Barker
26-Dec-2004, 18:06
Eugene - the flange focal distance on the 47mm SA XL is actually 59.1mm. So, with the recessed board, I think she'll just squeak by - particularly with use of the hyperfocal distance. Although the specs on Calumet and B&H (the Toyo site appears to be down at the moment) say 70mm is the minimum, I measure (on my 45AX) about 63mm with the bed in the normal position, and about 58mm when the bed is dropped. That, less the 12.5mm of the recessed board, looks like it should work OK. Yes? No?

tim atherton
26-Dec-2004, 18:35
Toyo claims it will though I haven't one to try (and yes, you have very few extra mm for movements with the 47mm)

Flange focal distance on the Toyo 45AII with the recessed board supposed to be down to 45mm with the bed dropped (though they also cite minimum extension with the flat board at 51mm)

tight but suposedly possible

Andre Noble
26-Dec-2004, 19:38
Thre are two recessed lens boards for the Toyo 45AII:

The common 12.5mm and deep 30mm version, which you can still see on EBay sometimes.

Gem Singer
26-Dec-2004, 20:15

With my 45AII and my wife's 45AX , I could barely focus a Fuji 65SWD at infinity, using a Toyo 12.5mm. recessed lensboard. The bellows was completely compressed. When using a Fuji 75SWD with the recessed lensboard, I was able to focus at infinity, but due to the extreme amount of bellows compression, movements were limited, even with the bed dropped. When I used myFuji 90SW with the recessed lensboard and it allowed for full movements very easily.

I was told that there once was a 25mm recessed lensboard for the Toyo 45AII. However, it was discontinued before I purchased my Toyo cameras. Perhaps that's what Toyo is referring to in their literature when they quote their minimum bellows extension figures. I don't see how a 47Xl could be focused at infinity on that camera, even with a flange focal distance of 59.1mm., using the standard 12.5mm recessed lensboard. The bellows won't allow that much compression.

Mike Sullivan
11-Jan-2005, 20:11
Funny, has anyone ever heard of a bag bellows? DUHH!!????

Andre is correct... get the 30mm recessed lens board


Ralph Barker
12-Jan-2005, 02:47
Mike - the Toyo Field cameras do not have interchangeable bellows, so a bag bellows is not an option here.