Which Of These Shots Do You Like - B&W or Color?

[Old-N-Feeble]

Please forgive this post for two reasons as follows:

1. I "chimped" the image to determine composition and cropping. This subject will be shot and processed analog.

2. It will be shot with a 4x5 camera but with a 6x12cm RFB because I can't see the logic in shooting 4x5 and cropping that much.

I know this isn't a great composition but at least there's a poignant visual message.

Just ONE question: Color or B&W or both? I would shoot Ektar 100 for color and TMX 100 for B&W with medium red or deep yellow filter because I want the contrast between the high voltage tower and power lines against the sky to be obvious..

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[FrankS]

If you can photograph on an ominously cloudy day, then B+W with orange filter.

If you photograph at sunrise or sunset and can incorporate the warm light, then colour.

[evan clarke]

Always B&W

[Old-N-Feeble]

If you can photograph on an ominously cloudy day, then B+W with orange filter.

If you photograph at sunrise or sunset and can incorporate the warm light, then colour.

What you see is nearly the latest I can shoot and still have light on the front of the building... maybe another thirty minutes? The positive side to waiting until the last few minutes before losing light on the front of the building are... better color contrast, better textural contrast and a longer shadow in front of the building ti help isolate it against the rest of the image components. Unfortunately, any later in the day will throw shadow on the front of the building.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Always B&W

Orange, yellow or red filter... IYO?

[jp]

It'd be a nice scene for my infrared DSLR. Especially if there were a few puffy clouds.

Which would be better depends on the intended use. If it's personal, do both.

[Old-N-Feeble]

It'd be a nice scene for my infrared DSLR. Especially if there were a few puffy clouds.

Which would be better depends on the intended use. If it's personal, do both.

Hmm... maybe Ilford SFX 200 with a Wratten #29 or #70? If the live oak leaves lighten enough that might separate the building from the trees. OTOH, a red or orange filter would definitely increase the separation with pan film.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Color. It seems to make the contrast between the old barn and modern electricity more apparent to me.

I think it's the color contrast between the reddish building and the trees and sky. The building color contrasts everything else in the image... not as much the dead grass in the foreground though. My worry is that even Ektar 100 won't give enough color contrast unless it's drum-scanned and digitally manipulated. I wanted to try and stay full analog but that may not be feasible with this image.

[jp]

Hmm... maybe Ilford SFX 200 with a Wratten #29 or #70? If the live oak leaves lighten enough that might separate the building from the trees. OTOH, a red or orange filter would definitely increase the separation with pan film.

Buildings are usually dark and foliage light with IR. The pole and wires would be contrasty with dark areas. Red might get you some of the way there without being too abstract.

[koh303]

I know this isn't a great composition but at least there's a poignant visual message.

What is this message exactly?
If it is so poignant, why does the format matter?
And if the format matters why does the color/BW matter?

[Old-N-Feeble]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear...

Old vs. new...

This homestead must be 100+ years old vs. the modern electrical power lines towering above it.

The idea is the contrast between the ages... progress... or "not".

That is the visual and cultural contrast I was looking for.

Yesterday vs. today... which is better?

[cowanw]

Do both.
have the old things, the ground, trees, sky and barn in Black and White.
Have the pole and wires in their natural colour.
Or see post #3:)

[Old-N-Feeble]

OK, here is a thought. Wait until the grass greens up and then shoot with the Ektar 100 plus a red enhancing filter to boost the reddish barn. Maybe add a polarizer to the mix for good measure. I'd try it with and without the red enhancer though, as perhaps some really vibrant green grass would create the illusion of the barn being more intense and the nice green grass could also symbolize the "new". This is what I would try if I wanted to stay full analog.

TAG

That's a great idea but the lighting is wrong in spring, summer and autumn. The sun is higher in the sky so there is no side lighting to illuminate the front of the building at any time of day because there are also the trees that shade the front and there's that that long porch cover. The building is oriented in the wrong direction for morning or evening light to illuminate the front at any other time but winter.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Maybe wait for snow to cover the ground instead of grass?

TAG

Heh... It hasn't snowed here for thirty years. :)

[Larry Gebhardt]

Heh... It hasn't snowed here for thirty years. :)

I'll mail you some ice. We've got a bunch of that, but not much snow.

As to your original question, I think I'd prefer a black and white version but with a more contrast. I'd try a version with the red filter, but also one with a yellow/green to lighten the foliage and darken the sky. That may help - or not.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Larry, thanks for the offer of the ice but it wouldn't last long here.:)

I don't think I have a yellow-green filter but I do have a dark green I can try.

[Andrew O'Neill]

The colour version wins. If you shot it with IR film, it would win. There would be more variation in tone, which would help the old house stand out. SFX would be a good choice as it's not over the top. The strongest filter I have used with this film is a #72. But since this is a LF forum, I highly recommend Rollei IR, or if you can find some, Efke IR.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I'll order some SFX or similar and give it a try. I have #25, #29 and #70 filters to try. IIRC, live oak leaves don't emit as much IR as most others.

So far, we have the following:

B&W pan with #25 and #58 filters
SFX with #25, #29 and #70 filters
Ektar 100

BTW, I don't want to shoot reversal film because I want the option to print analog.

TAG, thank you. You may be right about the brown grass adding to the effect. The few bare trees do the same. What I didn't mention is I already added a little contrast and color saturation to the color image in an attempt to "guess" at how Ektar 100 will render the subject. However, I may have gone too far with it. I suppose I could have the Ektar "pushed" to gain more contrast and saturation if need be.

Is Ektar 100 the contrastiest C41 film with the highest saturation? That may be what I need for this particular scene.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I went crazy today and purchased more film and developers to try. At the moment I only have Tmax 100 and Xtol on hand. I ordered a pro-pack each of Ektar 100, Rollei Retro 80s and Adox CMS II 20. I also added a bottle each of Adox Rodinal and Adotech CMS II film developers. I didn't intend on getting into this experimental mindset but I couldn't help myself.

I'm going to try all of these films on this subject... it's about as good as most other subjects in this part of the country... until springtime anyway. I'll try the Tmax and Retro 80s in both Rodinal and Xtol. It'll take some time but I'll update with results when I have them.

Oops... I just realized I need to order more chemistry bottles and I'm out of funds.:)

[Andrew O'Neill]

SFX is very nice in Xtol 1+1. If you need some reciprocity data, I have my own that I generated a few years ago.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Hi Andrew... yes I can use that. I'll keep it for reference.

[Andrew O'Neill]

O-N-F, check your inbox.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Whoa… you check it already. That was fast!

[Old-N-Feeble]

Whoa… you check it already. That was fast!

Yes, thank you for the data.:)

[Old-N-Feeble]

RE monochrome film: It seems that I won't have the Retro 80s until mid February which is too late for proper lighting to shoot this scene. So it looks like I'll be limited to Ektar 100, Adox CMS II 20 and Tmax 100. I tried three different places for the Retro 80s... ordered from two big-name stores that showed it "in stock" but then received B/O emails. I cancelled those and ordered from an eBay seller but didn't notice the late "estimated delivery date" because of the pale yellow color eBay is using for that indicator. Oh well...:)

[Harley Goldman]

B&w

[Old-N-Feeble]

I now have everything I need to process silver emulsion monochrome film. However, I've decided not to use the plastic chemical containers I bought recently. I ordered amber glass wide-mouth bottles and those won't be here for at least a week. I'll sell the new plastic bottles I recently bought to someone, via eBay, who will use their chemistry far quicker than I can so oxidation isn't a factor for them. The funny thing is I KNEW BETTER than to buy plastic bottles but I assumed they'd improved over the last 30+ years. I guess not.

I'll probably shoot this on three types of black-and-white film... Tmax 100, Retro 80s and CMS 20 II. I'll shoot two rolls of each. Filters will be #58 green, #16 orange and #25 red. The former two will be processed (one roll each) in Xtol and Rodinal. The latter (both rolls) will be processed in Adotech II but at different times. All will shot at approximately half box speed and slightly underdeveloped then selenium toned to add contrast and lengthen the straight portion of the gamma curve.

I'll also shoot a roll of Ektar 100.

[JMB]

Just ONE question: Color or B&W or both?

Color photographs always seem to fail.

[Old-N-Feeble]

The weather/lighting and other issues have caused too long a delay and the sun is no longer in optimal position. I'll be shooting this subject probably mid December. I hope the building is still standing by then. The front cover posts are really leaning.

[danno@cnwl.igs]

On THIS photo?

Definitely the B&W.

[Old-N-Feeble]

On THIS photo?

Definitely the B&W.

Okay then... Fuji Acros 100 or Agfa Retro 80s? Wratten #25 filter or not?

[John Olsen]

Don't omit trying it from the barn side with the power pole hovering over it. That way the beautiful barn textures are in the foreground and the pole is not so oversize in comparison.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Don't omit trying it from the barn side with the power pole hovering over it. That way the beautiful barn textures are in the foreground and the pole is not so oversize in comparison.

Yes, the lighting is better from that side plus one can see many power poles receding into the distance. However, that's the rear side of the building which is very much less interesting than the front. Also, I sort of want the power pole to dominate over the old building... sort of the entire point of the image... modern overpowering the old.