Getting the correct temperature while developing at home?

[4x5fan]

So I'd like to start developing my own 4x5 color negative sheets at home in the bathroom. My only concern would be maintaining a precise temperature for this. I'm not looking to drop a bunch of money for a processing sink, I'd prefer to use the sink or the bath tub for this. My whole reason for doing this is because it's too expensive mailing in my film to get processed on top of scanning and printing and the price of the film itself, besides it would be neat to do the creative process on my own. Does anyone have any advice on how I can be sure to keep the right temperature for developing? Thank you.

[letchhausen]

Two of the places where I get my negs developed have either quit or are in the process of moving. So a friend did some of mine in his Jobo. Two things I've taken away from that is that an aquarium heater would allow one to maintain temperature (+/-100 degrees) and you would need some way to agitate consistently. I've been thinking about getting a Jobo drum and attaching it to a rock tumbler motor using the Jobo roller base in a tray of water with a heater. But I'm still working on it. There's threads about using Jobo drums with a roller base here on LFF.

I was thinking about buying the Alastair Inglis nitrogen burst system but there's too little information about it out there and as far as I can tell no one's used it with color.

[Michael E]

Back in college in Michigan (20 years ago) we processed our color film in regular (b/w) tanks in a big water bath. We took the tank out every 15 or 30 seconds (can't quite remember) to agitate. (Later, I got my own JOBO.)

If you just do it to save money, don't even start. It takes a lot of time. The color accuracy is all over the place. Your chemistry from last time is always questionable, so you constantly set up new chems. Chemistry in small quantaties is expensive. In the end, you don't save a lot.

If you just want to do it as an experience, go ahead. It's no rocket science.

[4x5fan]

Could a small electric stove work?

[Liquid Artist]

A stove could work but is tough to regulate to the right temperature.

Keep your eyes open.
I did and was practically given an old Paterson color processor which would work.

[4x5fan]

How would it be difficult to regulate? Wouldn't I just set the stove until it can heat up water to 102 degree's then use the water that has been heated for the tank?

[Kirk Gittings]

DYI submersible water heater for hydroponics? http://community.theaquaponicsource.com/forum/topics/diy-heater-submersible-heater-build-your-own-2000-watt-element

[brucetaylor]

When I did it this long ago I used to have a hot plate In the darkroom with 2-3 quarts of very hot water in it. After setting the temp in a plastic picnic cooler using the tap, I would adjust the temp as it slowly dropped with the hot plate water. It was easy to maintain this way.

[paulr]

I had a darkroom with no water supply and very little climate control. There were a few days a year with temps right in the low 70s when all the chemistry would stay at 68F as if by magic. But most of the time it was either too cold or too hot. I dealt with this by bringing in a bucket of either cold or hot water. In the hottest days of summer the tap water was too warm so I'd add ice.

This allowed me to cool or heat each film processing chemical right before using, with a water bath. I could keep things within 1/2 degree F quite easily with method. I mean, it was a bit tedious, but not complicated.

For paper processing, I didn't bother. I used the principle that development activity is proportional to the image emergence time of the paper. This let me do some experiments to calibrate my development to a range of temperatures. Basically, when the developer is hot, you develop for a shorter time. When it's cold, you develop longer. I figured it out precisely, because I found thatdoing so allowed my toning process to work consistently. I found it much easier to accommodate the temperature while printing than to control it.

[Ari]

I develop C-41 in a Jobo tank using the Tetenal powder kit.

I keep my chemicals in plastic bottles; when it's time to process, I heat up the developer and blix in an old microwave for 2 minutes until I hit 38˚C (100F).
The developer stays at or near that temperature long enough to be very accurate; the blix's temperature is less important, but it's good to be within a few degrees of 38˚C.
Wash and stabilizer are done at normal (room) temperature.

I would not do this in trays; spend some money and get a Jobo tank for your sheet film, because the C-41 process is just as easy as doing B&W, and it does save you a lot of money.
And I much preferred my results to results from pro labs; many of them sit idle for long stretches, so their chemistry is not always fresh or reliable.

[Will S]

Nova slot processors?

[Jmarmck]

I process film in a Nikor tank.
Turn on the taps and let them run till temps stabilize.
Run the water into a small container say a measuring cup.
Insert thermometer and adjust to desired temp.
Having a dual basin sink in my kitchen, I stopper one side and fill with water.
Insert chemicals into the bath. Use some sort of support to keep dev tank top above waterline.
Insert thermometer. Leave water running.
This seems to work well though it is a waste of water.
http://backglass.org/duncan/apug/nikor_4x5_01.jpg

Decades ago when I was doing E6 (100 degrees F) I used a small cooking plate like an electric skillet.
Add a pot large enough to hold 6 pint bottles and water. I did countless rolls of 35 and 120 film this way.

[Deval]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?113088-DIY-Film-Processor-for-C41(Possibly-E-6)-under-100

as an update, I've tested it for both, it works very well

[Shootar401]

I did the sink/tupperwear thing for almost a year and got sick of it. Two years ago I found the easiest way to get the correct temperature +/- 1/2 degree Celsius is with a water bath. They are used mainly for medial and scientific use, but are perfect for photography. I can fit 3 1L beakers of chemicals plus my Patersen or Nikkor tank in mine and it will keep a constant temperature. All you have to do it push the power button walk away, have lunch, walk the dog, or catch up on news and your chemicals will be waiting for you at the correct temp in about 30 minutes. They range from $40 for a basic heater to over $300 for a microprocessor controlled model. I paid around $100 for mine on the big 'bay 100 degrees C. Mine is worth about $500, but it was a local pickup only so I saved a bunch.

Cheaper than a Jobo and just as good if you don't need the fancy crap.

Here is mine, As you can see it can hold my chemicals, C41 at the time, plus I can use my thermometer to check the temps in the bottles to make sure they match. I can dial in the temp on the bottom dial and it's dead accurate.

128332

Here are some on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRECISION-WATER-BATH-183-/171481409615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ed16a84f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Equatherm-213-140-HEATED-WATERBATH-WATER-BATH-/251582601784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a937dda38
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VWR-Scientific-Products-Model-1212-Heated-Water-Bath-Without-Lid-OO528-/331260390755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d20a86d63

[RMiksell]

I use stainless steel developing tanks (2 gallon tanks that can hold 8x10 holders) my utility sink in my garage at night with Fuji Hunt Chemistry. As long as you can make your bathroom light tight it should be fairly easy to do in a bathtub. Let the temperature stabilize a little over 101F (gives you time to load hangers), turn the lights off and go to work. The developer is the only temperature that's critical, and it's only in the developer for 3:15 unless you're push processing. I've processed about 35 negatives so far with results that looked the same as the ones I've had processed in the local pro lab here (Excellent). Shootar's water bath idea is a great inexpensive way to go as well, I just haven't gotten one yet. Also, the start-up price is a bit high (It cost me around $350 to get all the chemistry), but it's enough to last a really long time. I figure I'm about half way to them paying for themselves (based on the processing cost at the lab). If you can handle developing black and white film you can handle color.

[Tin Can]

http://www.hassmfg.com/biased_guide.pl/1213638750-2927

yes Hass wrote it, but then it does describe options

back in the day and i was not there, emulsions were processed at ambient, sometimes very cold and hot as they needed to process regardless

film was processed in cold airplanes as they flew away from the enemy

[Rick L]

I do not remember where I got this idea - but it works great

I go a cheap sous vide cooker off ebay, and a big aluminum cook pot at the dollar store - put a cut out in the side of the pot to position the device

fill the pot with water

set the temperature on the digital controls, let it run until the the chemicals come up to the right level - this works for Stearman (4x5) tanks or Pattersons insert for 5x7

i do not see why you couldn't do it with a bigger tank for 8x10

if nothing else - you can keep a supply of water available at a set temp

[Richard Wasserman]

And when you’re not processing film you can use this set-up to prepare dinner. I like multipurpose tools


I do not remember where I got this idea - but it works great

I go a cheap sous vide cooker off ebay, and a big aluminum cook pot at the dollar store - put a cut out in the side of the pot to position the device

fill the pot with water

set the temperature on the digital controls, let it run until the the chemicals come up to the right level - this works for Stearman (4x5) tanks or Pattersons insert for 5x7

i do not see why you couldn't do it with a bigger tank for 8x10

if nothing else - you can keep a supply of water available at a set temp

[robphoto]

I develop my sheet film in trays, and what I do is to consider the ambient temperature, and figure that the temperature of the solution is going to drift towards that.

You can get a close idea by setting out a tray of water, at, say, 70 degrees, splash it a little for 6 minutes (or whatever time you develop for) and see what it drifts to.

If you start at 70 and it drifts to 68, if you use development time for 69 degrees, you're probably very close.

Another way is to use those devices that give you water flow at a set temperature, and you have your trays in a shallow water bath, but I am working without a darkroom sink.

[henseman]

Has anyone checked out how accurate a hot water on demand system would be for film development?

[Jim Noel]

robphoto has one of the best ideas. It is easy to do and costs little.
An aquarium heater works very well. just get a plastic tub deep enough for you film tanks, fill it with just enough water to NOT float the tanks. Take the time, maybe an hour or so, to adjust the heater to heat to your desired temperature. This will remain the same over time.
Another method which I use for B&W is a chart to show the adjustment in time needed as temp changes up or down. I have used it for years with no problems.

[Robert Tilden]

I've read that a sous-vide cooker is pretty useful for maintaining temperature and circulation. The ~$60 models on Amazon can go up to ~200F with a claimed +/- 0.1C temperature 'accuracy'. You can also clip it onto whatever container you want to use as your water bath.

[Michael_4514]

I bought a 50 watt aquarium heater that is supposed to be able to heat 10 gallons up to 104 degrees, but it can't get my four or five gallons of water any higher than 80 degrees. Maybe it's because my basement is around 60 degrees. I'm going to try a heftier heater, maybe 200 watts.

In the past I've used a large stock pot on a kitchen stove which doesn't really allow for exquisitely fine control but generally got the job done.

[Drew Wiley]

Without an accessory tempering valve, on-demand water would potentially be way off. These kinds of tempering valves were once routine for darkroom sinks. They are still readily available either new or used through lab suppliers. You might even post a request on this forum, to see if someone has one to sell.
Much greater temp accuracy can be obtained using scientific-grade thermoregulators. The real deal won't be found on Amazon or cost $60 - multiply that cost by at least 20. But those devices are overkill for basic black and white film development. A simple water jacket arrangement and good thermometer are generally all you need. Beyond that, either a gentle drip hot water line in the jacket, or else a blue ice brick, depending on the ambient air temperature, is simple enough to improvise too. I have all the above, plus several other reliable options too, but generally stick with the simplest manner unless there is a reason to get nitpicky, like when needing masks or color separation negs of very precise gamma and density. Today I was using a basic Jobo tempering box for sake of plastic bottles containing RA4 chemistry.

[Henry Yorke]

+1 for the sous vide device. I've been using an Anova model (https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-cooker/) for about four years. Temperature is rock solid, easily adjustable, and fast. It clips onto the side of any container. Super easy for use with large and small drums.

[Jim Noel]

I'm not in the mood to read all the posts so this may be a repeat.
The simplest and likely the most used over the past 50 years, is the "pass through" method.
If you have trouble maintaining a temperature, do some tests.
Let's say you want to maintain 80 deg F. and your ambient temp is 70deg, Heat the quantity of water you will be using to 85 degrees and see what the temp is at the endo for the amount of time you develop. If it has fallen to 75deg the avg will be close to 80. I should say close enough to 80.
This is simple example, but I hope you get the idea, and it really does work.

[Deyoung]

I'm really new to developing film so take this for what its worth. I use the Sous-vide from anova. I took apart an old plastic toolbox I had sitting around and filled it with water. Keeps the chems and my development tanks right at the target temps with no problems. It may be a bit overkill for Black and white, but I just did C-41 where it worked perfectly. I'll be trying E-6 soon. The Haas controller was an eBay find that was too good to pass up and also works wonderfully when needed.

215108

[Michael_4514]

Heck yeh. I just bought a 500 watt sous vide device by Instapot from Amazon for $89 and it is amazing. My set up is in my basement which has a constant temp of about 58 degrees, and the sous vide warms up my color chemicals to 105 degrees in about 15 minutes. (These are in plastic storage containers, glass might take longer to transfer the heat.) I wish I had known about these things 20 years ago.


+1 for the sous vide device. I've been using an Anova model (https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-cooker/) for about four years. Temperature is rock solid, easily adjustable, and fast. It clips onto the side of any container. Super easy for use with large and small drums.

[robphoto]

When I was in school and developing color roll film, we would put the beakers of chemicals and the developing container into a water bath in a big dishpan sort of thing (18x24x8") and put the thermometer in the water bath and add hot water to keep the temp up as it drifted. Pretty accurate, and no equipment to buy.

[Tin Can]

I see it now has 800 watts $80 and can hold temp for up to 72 hours

I may buy one with Prime, but will never cook with it


Heck yeh. I just bought a 500 watt sous vide device by Instapot from Amazon for $89 and it is amazing. My set up is in my basement which has a constant temp of about 58 degrees, and the sous vide warms up my color chemicals to 105 degrees in about 15 minutes. (These are in plastic storage containers, glass might take longer to transfer the heat.) I wish I had known about these things 20 years ago.

[grat]

I see it now has 800 watts $80 and can hold temp for up to 72 hours

I may buy one with Prime, but will never cook with it

You're missing out. Does well on anything from eggs to vegetables to meat.

[Tin Can]

50 years ago I sold and ate raw eggs, sometimes by sucking them out

Not now, but I buy local farm eggs once a week 2 miles away, with farm bread, local Bison and any veg/fruit

I don't like cooking in plastic bags

I use a mini crockpot to cook 4 dinners at a time, 4 days.

I bet the Crock Pot uses less power




You're missing out. Does well on anything from eggs to vegetables to meat.

[grat]

The plastic bags are a valid complaint-- although there are good quality reusable silicone bags, and as a rule I use bags designed for vacuum sealing food (no BPA, among other things). The other benefit of sous vide is the (relatively) low cooking temperature. It's easier to avoid the level where plastic starts turning into chemical goo. As for electricity, it's hard to compare-- you could be cooking something anywhere from 2 to 24 hours.

[letchhausen]

I mentioned this to a friend and he sent me the Cinestill unit. Sorta like someone took one of those cooking deals and redesigned it specifically for photography. Pretty cool.

https://cinestillfilm.com/collections/tcs-temp/products/tcs-temperature-control-system-tcs-1000-immersion-circulator-thermostat-for-mixing-chemistry-and-precision-film-processing-at-home