questions for people who regularly shoot nudes

[jnantz]

a bunch of years ago, not sure how many, maybe 5 or 6 ?
frank petronio was posting a lot of his nudes and was asked questions
about photographing nude models. he spoke about the logistics
and equipment a little bit but he also talked about state of mind.
before he even picked up a camera to photograph them,
he put himself out there in the same vulnerable position models were in.

i wish i could find the thread to post a quote from the conversation,
(if someone knows were it is, please post a link )
because i might get some of it wrong, but he pretty much said he
went to an art school and volunteered as a nude model in life drawing
and (?) photography classes. he did this so he knew what his subjects
were dealing with. so he could have some sort of understanding about what
it was like to be totally vulnerable ...

i don't shoot nudes, i have plenty of other things to keep me occupied
but for those who do shoot ( have shot, might shoot ) nudes have you
and modeled yourself, amongst strangers or do you just photograph models
and not worry about how vulnerable &c they may be. i'm not talking about edgy
photography, things that may turn heads or get called out as being one thing or another
i mean pretty much any work.

[Bill_1856]

I think that Frank was one of the few people banned from the forum; I don't know if his posts may have been deleted, too.
(Personally, I think the ideal punishment would have been to limit him to just one post a month, to keep things stirred up.)

[jnantz]

hi bill

his posts are still here and plentiful :)
but i can't seem to find the one i am looking for when i search for it
i used advanced search window and him for the user name and certain phrases
i remember from what he wrote but wasn't able to dig it up.
it was after he posted some images somebody/bodies asked "how we can get into photographing nudes like you"

it was an interesting conversation to say the least because a lot of folks i am sure
imagined him just searching for models who routinely have no issue with figurative work
and just photographing them ... but it was really nothing like that, as i have mentioned...

[Scott Davis]

I don't know where it was he said it, but I do also recall a similar comment from him at some point. I do photograph nudes, but I've never been a nude model. I think the dynamic is different because I'm photographing male nudes, and there's either a different tension or perhaps little to none when working with someone of the same gender. Which is silly, but still real. Guys have their own hang-ups about posing nude - unless they're pretty secure people, they have this fear that posing nude somehow reflects upon their sexuality. Their fear is that it either paints them as gay (which they may or may not be, and the fact is quite irrelevant to the job at hand) or is somehow a reflection upon their morals (I'm sure that female models have that same concern). I do my best to reassure them by my demeanor, conversation and actions that I'm sympathetic. I don't know that you have to actually go be a model to understand things from their perspective. Being empathetic should be enough to translate your own anxiety to theirs.

[chris_4622]

I took a workshop with Peter LeGrand at a View Camera Conference and the first thing I remember him saying is "it's okay to look". He was giving a "figure/portraiture" workshop. I was so naive I thought I was going to learn how to make portraits, I was surprised when the model removed her robe. I still see Peter once a month or so and have talked to him extensively about his work with nudes. I've seen quite a bit of his work, past and present and none of it ever comes across as anything but art.

I've never modeled but I always talk to the model first and convey to her my ideas and ask her questions to find her comfort level. It helps to look them in the eye when talking to them, especially when they are nude. I work with professional models and expect professional behavior from them. This means come prepared and ready to work. I never, ever make any kind of remarks in jest that could be misconstrued.

[DrTang]

...searching for models who routinely have no issue with figurative work
and just photographing them ...



that's what I did

I found out quick that it's way easier to tell a stripper to 'cover up a bit'

than it is to tell that art studio major to maybe reveal a bit more

[jp]

Frank's got a blog and posts regularly on Facebook if you want to get in touch.

[Scott Davis]

I've found strippers make really bad models, actually. The best models are either people who have studied modeling, dancers, and/or actors. Strippers always try to go for "sexy", or they only know how to move and pose in certain ways. Dancers can move and bend and flex; actors can emote through gesture and expression; professional figure models are a blend of the two. But it all depends on what you're going for in your images. Also, strippers tend to have A: an inflated perception of the value of their modeling work, often coupled with underestimating the value of your time, and B: they don't always have the best work ethic when it comes to showing up on time, if at all. The models I've paid have been the least reliable; the ones I've worked with 'in the name of art' have been the most reliable.


that's what I did

I found out quick that it's way easier to tell a stripper to 'cover up a bit'

than it is to tell that art studio major to maybe reveal a bit more

[Tin Can]

I used to do naked performance art, then I got old. Very well perceived by hundreds of students, art teachers and silent administration.

If you were my FB friend you could even see it, as it was my response to Marcel Duchamp's sexist work.

Role reversal is the game.

[DrTang]

I've found strippers make really bad models, actually. The best models are either people who have studied modeling, dancers, and/or actors. Strippers always try to go for "sexy", or they only know how to move and pose in certain ways. Dancers can move and bend and flex; actors can emote through gesture and expression; professional figure models are a blend of the two. But it all depends on what you're going for in your images. Also, strippers tend to have A: an inflated perception of the value of their modeling work, often coupled with underestimating the value of your time, and B: they don't always have the best work ethic when it comes to showing up on time, if at all. The models I've paid have been the least reliable; the ones I've worked with 'in the name of art' have been the most reliable.


Oh...I never paid

I had friends who had friends..like that

I have a secret technique that helps get rid of 'photo face' or 'photo pose'

it's called incompetence

after 20 minutes of me dropping crap and strobes not going off and darkslides not pulled - most models get tired of the fake pose/face thing and better pix happen

[Greg Miller]

I have never modeled nude. I don't know anyone that I hate enough to subject them to that.

I don't think it is necessary to do that. I have enough empathy for my models (some experienced, some never-evers) that I can imagine what the experience is like for them, and work in a way that minimizes any trepidation they may have.

[Alan Gales]

I have never photographed nudes nor done any modeling but I have sketched many a nude (both male and female) in college figure drawing courses.

If you are thinking about photographing some nude models then do yourself a favor and hire someone experienced. We had both experienced and a few brand new models in college. There was one episode that was quite disastrous with a new model.

A quality, experienced model will teach you some things!

[gregmo]

I modeled for 8 years. Mostly commercial work (such as Under Armour, Fila, Totoya), never nude. It's just like acting. A professional model knows how to give the photographer what he/ she needs in a very short amount of time.

[Bruce Barlow]

I took a workshop with Peter LeGrand at a View Camera Conference and the first thing I remember him saying is "it's okay to look". He was giving a "figure/portraiture" workshop. I was so naive I thought I was going to learn how to make portraits, I was surprised when the model removed her robe. I still see Peter once a month or so and have talked to him extensively about his work with nudes. I've seen quite a bit of his work, past and present and none of it ever comes across as anything but art.

I've never modeled but I always talk to the model first and convey to her my ideas and ask her questions to find her comfort level. It helps to look them in the eye when talking to them, especially when they are nude. I work with professional models and expect professional behavior from them. This means come prepared and ready to work. I never, ever make any kind of remarks in jest that could be misconstrued.

Peter came very, very close in that workshop to having the photographers be nude, too... We didn't have to restrain him, but we did sort of talk him out of it, even though we thought it was a good idea.

[towolf]

I think our own micmojo (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/member.php?16321-micmojo) has the highest throughput (https://www.flickr.com/photos/micmojo) of nude models. And he is a self-professed amateur.

I was wondering about the model of modeling in an amateur setting myself. Does money change hands? Is this pro-bono?

[Scott Davis]

I took a workshop with Peter LeGrand at a View Camera Conference and the first thing I remember him saying is "it's okay to look".
Peter came very, very close in that workshop to having the photographers be nude, too... We didn't have to restrain him, but we did sort of talk him out of it, even though we thought it was a good idea.

Yes, absolutely, it's ok to look. You can't take photos of someone if you don't look. But there is a line between looking with an eye to understanding how someone's body is shaped, how it moves, and how it responds to light, and leering with lecherous intent, drool coursing down your chin. If you want to keep doing human figure work for any length of time, stay on the non-lecherous side of that line. Working with a female model, I'd err on the side of not touching them at all. With male models, I've only made contact after first obtaining permission and then making clear the purpose of touching them, and not deviating from my stated intention by even a millimeter.

I would never disrobe in front of my models - to me it's a sign of professionalism. It's too easy to misinterpret a gesture like that intended to put the model more at ease and instead freak them out.

[Scott Davis]

I think our own micmojo (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/member.php?16321-micmojo) has the highest throughput (https://www.flickr.com/photos/micmojo) of nude models. And he is a self-professed amateur.

I was wondering about the model of modeling in an amateur setting myself. Does money change hands? Is this pro-bono?

It's kind of like the old adage of "what's that camera worth?" - the value is the value arrived at between the buyer and seller at the time of the sale. Some modeling gigs are paid, some are underpaid, some are highly compensated, and some (I would argue the majority) are totally unpaid. If it is something you think you want to do regularly, I would do it as a trade-for-prints deal until you have some experience and have a better idea of what you are required to do. If it's a one-off, just-for-the-experience-of-it, then it doesn't really matter. But if you ask for money and don't deliver quality images, then the photographer will not only not hire you again, they'll never give you a good reference. A decent photographer should at least also buy you lunch if you pose.

Modeling for painting/drawing/sculpture is different - there, you should expect to get paid, a flat rate by the hour, for your work, because you're committing to not just an hour or two one afternoon, but several hours a day for multiple days, frequently.

[Bill_1856]

Yes, absolutely, it's ok to look. You can't take photos of someone if you don't look. But there is a line between looking with an eye to understanding how someone's body is shaped, how it moves, and how it responds to light, and leering with lecherous intent, drool coursing down your chin. If you want to keep doing human figure work for any length of time, stay on the non-lecherous side of that line. Working with a female model, I'd err on the side of not touching them at all. With male models, I've only made contact after first obtaining permission and then making clear the purpose of touching them, and not deviating from my stated intention by even a millimeter.

I would never disrobe in front of my models - to me it's a sign of professionalism. It's too easy to misinterpret a gesture like that intended to put the model more at ease and instead freak them out.

With that kind of attitude, Edward Weston would have died a virgin, (after he left the wife and 4 kids).

[Tin Can]

Remember when naked people roamed the streets of America?

I sure miss the 60's, streakers and the way more open lifestyle many of us enjoyed.

I did inhale.

Randy Moe

[jnantz]

thankyou all for your insights.

[Scott Davis]

With that kind of attitude, Edward Weston would have died a virgin, (after he left the wife and 4 kids).

WTF do you mean? You mean not screwing your models? EW may have been a successful artist, but I'd hardly call abandoning your family in the pursuit of tail to be a moral or professional exemplar to follow. And I don't think his photographic success or greatness had anything to do with his morals or lack thereof - He would still have taken great images if he became a celibate monk, or if he had remained with his first wife.

[Bill_1856]

He would still have taken great images if he became a celibate monk, or if he had remained with his first wife.

I doubt it. (And don't accuse me of condoning his lifestyle, Scott.)

[Scott Davis]

I doubt it. (And don't accuse me of condoning his lifestyle, Scott.)

There has been a long history of excusing artists of what general society considers misbehavior due to their artistic "greatness". It's not of course a settled matter. But we're both indulging in speculative history, because he did produce great work both before and after he left his wife for his models. I tend to favor the idea that those possessed of artistic vision will express it no matter the circumstances, and while hardship or comfort will influence the output, neither hardship nor comfort will prevent it from happening.

I don't know about EW's personal relationships with his models - at what point did the relationship transform from professional to intimate? I'm not excusing the behavior either, but I have less of an ethical quandary over the transformation of the relationship if it were a case of "hey, we've been working together for three, six, whatever months now, do you feel the same way that I feel?" as opposed to, "So we're going to take some pictures today...what's your name again? and then the SEX!".

[Will S]

There has been a long history of excusing artists of what general society considers misbehavior due to their artistic "greatness". It's not of course a settled matter. But we're both indulging in speculative history, because he did produce great work both before and after he left his wife for his models. I tend to favor the idea that those possessed of artistic vision will express it no matter the circumstances, and while hardship or comfort will influence the output, neither hardship nor comfort will prevent it from happening.

I don't know about EW's personal relationships with his models - at what point did the relationship transform from professional to intimate? I'm not excusing the behavior either, but I have less of an ethical quandary over the transformation of the relationship if it were a case of "hey, we've been working together for three, six, whatever months now, do you feel the same way that I feel?" as opposed to, "So we're going to take some pictures today...what's your name again? and then the SEX!".

The start of his relationship with Charis is definitely covered in the daybooks. And it wasn't the latter scenario :-) I'd recommend reading them if you haven't.

[Scott Davis]

The start of his relationship with Charis is definitely covered in the daybooks. And it wasn't the latter scenario :-) I'd recommend reading them if you haven't.
I haven't read them. I'll break down and get a copy.

My original point, to get back to the topic of the thread, was that working with a model in a professional situation, especially when you don't know/don't have a long-established working relationship with them, is that hands off is the way to go. If you are both attracted to one another, I don't see it as being a big deal and some huge ethical problem to get frisky, so long as you are both unencumbered by other pre-existing relationships.

I'm not suggesting that inputs from the pelvic brain have no place in doing nude work - you'd make some pretty boring photos if there were no eros in the image. But if you would rather your reputation be Patrick Demarchelier than Terry Richardson, give the pelvic brain a voice at the table, not the chairmanship of the organization, so to speak.

[emh]

John- I did a bit of nude modeling (many years, and a few pounds/gray hairs ago). Once was for a woman working on her Master's thesis. One time was for a friend, where my ex-wife and I modeled for him. The decision to work with them was based on a few factors. 1- I respected their work, and professionalism. 2- I had wanted to shoot nudes, but wanted to know what it felt like to be on the other side of the lens. My desire to shoot nudes was put on the back burner for many years, and I finally started a few years ago. I think my modeling experience has served me well, though. A bit better understanding of the feeling of vulnerability, as well as being better able to direct models without infringing on their "safe-space". I don't think modeling nude is a prerequisite for successfully shooting nudes, though. Basic common sense regarding respect, boundaries, communicating your ideas, and professionalism is much more important.

The strangest I felt was at the opening of the thesis show. Her project involved multiple exposures, with me appearing about six times in each large print (from 4x5), which were taken in a wooded area of France. It was obvious the person in the photos was me, and I felt like saying, "my eyes are up here" a few times... :) Still, I really liked what she had done, and left the show proud of being a part of it.
In most of my nude work, I don't reveal the model's face, and when they've come to my openings, I never introduce them as my subjects. A few have identified themselves, while others preferred to remain anonymous. I consider that their decision, and always let them know they'd be hanging, so they could choose not to come, if they'd be uncomfortable. So far, they've all chosen to come to the openings...

[Darin Boville]

I've always found it a strange thing to hear of photographers who make an erotic photograph but who feel nothing but professionalism regarding the model. But maybe that speaks to the key different between a professional photographer and an artist.

--Darin

[Greg Miller]

I've always found it a strange thing to hear of photographers who make an erotic photograph but who feel nothing but professionalism regarding the model. But maybe that speaks to the key different between a professional photographer and an artist.

--Darin

I can't speak to making an erotic photo, because I have never made one. But I do make artistic nude photos, and I can say that, at least for myself, the furthest thing from my mind while in the act of making the photo is anything sexual. I would not have believed either before I started in this genre, but I think this is typical.

But then there are the dreaded "guy with a camera" types, and for them the entire event is purely sexual.

[Darin Boville]

I can't speak to making an erotic photo, because I have never made one. But I do make artistic nude photos, and I can say that, at least for myself, the furthest thing from my mind while in the act of making the photo is anything sexual. I would not have believed either before I started in this genre, but I think this is typical.

But then there are the dreaded "guy with a camera" types, and for them the entire event is purely sexual.

Hey Greg,

Forgive me for putting you on the spot a bit--but I went to your web page and looked at the nudes there. They look to be all young, beautiful females. Sexually attractive females, some could be Playboy models.

Are you saying that there are no sexual thoughts in your mind when shooting or are you saying that there is nothing sexual about your photographic intent?

--Darin

[Greg Miller]

Are you saying that there are no sexual thoughts in your mind when shooting or are you saying that there is nothing sexual about your photographic intent?

--Darin

Both

[Darin Boville]

Both

Fascinating.

--Darin

[Greg Miller]

If you are serious about making an artistic photo, there are so many things you are thinking about, there just isn't room for dirty thoughts. Lighting, directing the model, model's pose (many, many subtle details), composition, DOF, framing, timing, I'm thirsty, ...

And, yes, I am a healthy, normal, heterosexual male...

[Tin Can]

+1.

[Alan Gales]

But then there are the dreaded "guy with a camera" types, and for them the entire event is purely sexual.

When I was young, I dated a young attractive girl who had a bad experience with one of those jerks. He was an amateur photographer and her boss at a fast food establishment. They were dating and he asked her to pose nude for him. He then took his prints to work and posted them up on the bulletin board for all the employees to see.

There are some creeps out there!

[jnantz]

Snip snip


there are some creeps out there!

indeed !!

[jnantz]

a bunch of years ago ... yadda-yadda
frank petronio ... yadda-yadda ...
(if someone knows were it is, please post a link )

someone helped and found it for me HUGE THANKS !

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?39665-Best-way-to-get-nude-models

i appreciated the help !

=====

and thanks for the insights you folks have given me about the genre ...

i know it isn't necessary to put oneself in someone else' shoes and it only requires
humility, respect, empathy &c

sorry to cross genre but it is sort of like the difference
between photographing someplace,( grab-shot?) and photographing the same area and creating a sense of place
through an understanding of what that place is / was/ might be &c ( significance &c )

[Christopher Barrett]

A story about Jock Sturges relayed by a former photo professor of mine goes something like... "people who don't get my work, who think that I'm exploiting my subjects, don't understand that when I'm photographing them... I'm nude too!"

[Darin Boville]

A story about Jock Sturges relayed by a former photo professor of mine goes something like... "people who don't get my work, who think that I'm exploiting my subjects, don't understand that when I'm photographing them... I'm nude too!"

I think your reacher misread Sturges' intent entirely. He view seems to be that yes, his photos are erotic but that American standards of what can be erotic and what cannot is too strict. Thus, to use his phraseology, his nude images of young girls may be erotic--since you cannot deny the innate erotic nature of the human body, even at a very young age--but his photos are not perverse. The bit about him being nude, too, is just one of those throw-away lines. Clearly an adult man photographing a nude 13-year-old are not there on equal terms, no matter whether they are dressed or not. It's goofy even to say that.

--Darin

[jp]

Sturges photographs at Nudist (naturist) places, so if he's nude, he's fitting in. The context is important.

[Darin Boville]

Sturges photographs at Nudist (naturist) places, so if he's nude, he's fitting in. The context is important.

But he's the only one with a camera. :) Don't just take Sturges' PR as gospel.

--Darin

[Michael E]

He view seems to be that yes, his photos are erotic but that American standards of what can be erotic and what cannot is too strict. Thus, to use his phraseology, his nude images of young girls may be erotic--since you cannot deny the innate erotic nature of the human body, even at a very young age--but his photos are not perverse.

Sturges' images are much more about the personality than about the body of his sitters. True portraits if I ever saw any. The nudity is just an interesting aspect of human interaction.

Michael

[MDR]

David Bailey makes love daily. or You don't need to sleep with your model but it helps. The latter Quote is directly from David Bailey but he also says this was in the sixties and wouldn't be accepted behavior today. I modeled and made nude photographs the most important thing in my opinoin is to see the model as a Person and treat them like you would be treated yourself if you were in the same position. Funnily the most fun if had in art school were in the experimental nude drawing classes the experimental part was important as it made sure that the droolers and leechers would leave the class pretty quickly. One of the best assignments was to show the model the pose he/she had to take because you as the artists became very aware of the muscles that were required to hold the position and also how strenous a position was. In short it helped understand the models position and made you a better artists all in 5 minutes work.

[koh303]

And, yes, I am a healthy, normal, heterosexual male...

Indeed that is the measure of normalcy.

And because you are such, and are professional enough to no have time for "dirty" thoughts during a shoot should not impede on your normalcy?

[Greg Miller]

Indeed that is the measure of normalcy.

And because you are such, and are professional enough to no have time for "dirty" thoughts during a shoot should not impede on your normalcy?

No

[koh303]

No

So if you were a not normal gay person this would be a problem?

[Greg Miller]

So if you were a not normal gay person this would be a problem?

koh303, you're not very observant. Go back and read carefully what I wrote. "I would not have believed it either before I started in this genre, but I think this is typical"..

This is based on my experience and the many, many other serious art nude photographers that I know. Male, female, straight, gay.

Have you ever shot a serious art nude? If not then you have nothing to add to the conversation other than trying to twist someone else's words into something they are not.

[koh303]

Have you ever shot a serious art nude?
Sorry, purely non serious art nude photographer here, though to qualify that, i am not sure of the serious refers to "art" or "nude".

From your later posts, it seems that you equate normalcy with being hetero, or, that there is such a thing as a normal guy regardless.

[Greg Miller]

Sorry, purely non serious art nude photographer here, though to qualify that, i am not sure of the serious refers to "art" or "nude".

From your later posts, it seems that you equate normalcy with being hetero.

Then the rest of my statement certainly applies: ...then you have nothing to add to the conversation other than trying to twist someone else's words into something they are not.

[Darin Boville]

Sturges' images are much more about the personality than about the body of his sitters. True portraits if I ever saw any. The nudity is just an interesting aspect of human interaction.

Michael

Sturges' personal history regarding sex and underage girls doesn't bother you--make you the least little worried that maybe all the picts of those nubile young things might be more than appreciations of formal beauty?

--Darin

[Greg Miller]

From your later posts, it seems that you equate normalcy with being hetero, or, that there is such a thing as a normal guy regardless.


Stop twisting my words into something they are not. Various posters, in a very polite manner mind you, expressed that it might be difficult for a male photographer to not get titillated when photographing a female nude. So I felt it was worth stating that I am a male heterosexual who has not found that to be the case. Which is the exact same experience that the many, many other serious art nude photographer that I know have expressed.

Stop trying to twist this into what is normal for gays, heretos,... That is unequivocally not what where I was going. So stop implying that I was. You think you are being clever, but y
ou are adding zero value to this thread.

[Emil Schildt]

To John's original question - and to repeat someone earlier in this thread: Yes - I have modelled nude many times - then I got old...

I have taken a nude or two - many many erotic ones.. some highly that.
is it a sexual experience?

Sometimes it is indeed. Funny enough not if the models are couples... mostly if there's only one model... the first with the energy flowing between the models, and me as wiever.. the second, the energy flows between me and the model, and that can be very erotic. (I'd find it rather strange if it was not). I don't see an issue with it - the model know it - I know it, and neither takes action on it...

I don't but the claim, there's to many other things to think think about, to make the situation erotic... at least, I don't think too much... I photograph...

[Will S]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Stieglitz would photograph O'Keefe after they had sex since she was already nude! IDK maybe I dreamed this as I can't find it now. There's definitely a funny quote from her saying that she couldn't say no to his posing her or he would get very mad. And that was definitely a singular body of work.

[Darin Boville]

As an aside, I just went to Amazon and was surprised to find these suggested titles "Related to Items You've Viewed."

128401

I *did* in fact do a google search earlier in regard to this thread to remind myself of the movie that was made about Jock's having sex with the 14 year old(s) while he was their school counselor but I did not search any of this on Amazon. And there they all are, the David Hamilton's and all the rest....

I didn't realize that Amazon was bringing stuff in from the web like this...fyi

--Darin

[Greg Miller]

Next thing you know the FBI will be knocking on your door wanting to check your computer. ;)

If you use Google, you can bet that everything you do is carried over to other web sites. that's how they make their money. And a good reason not to use Gmail.

[Maris Rusis]

I guess most people have limited encounters with unclad others or, conversely, unclad encounters with others. And I guess it's plausible to assume that the nature of those encounters influence subsequent erotic or non-erotic attitudes to the nude. Lingerie catalogues prompt lingerie fetishists, medical nudity invokes another world of fantasy. Sexual encounters seem to cause a lot of people to become inescapably fixated on the nude as personally erotic. If photography is an avenue of personal expression, and I think it is, then people will photograph the nude in accordance with their fantasies, fixations, obsessions, and attitudes. That makes the study of nude photography a rich genre for curious viewers, art scholars, voyeurs, fantasists, amateur psychiatrists, and students of the human condition.

I've had the privilege (handicap?) of unlimited encounters with unclad others. My house was the nearest to a local nude beach and I've met thousands (and thousands) of nude people, old, young, fat, thin, male, female, other, who were nude before I arrived with my camera and were nude after the camera went away. My pictures were always intended (with varying degrees of success) to be respectful celebrations of presence, style, beauty, and grace. And I can't recall one with erotic intent. There must be something about using a large format camera in the open air in a crowd of nude people that douses lust. But I'm not sure the pictures are the better for it.

[koh303]

As an aside, I just went to Amazon and was surprised to find these suggested titles "Related to Items You've Viewed."

128401

I *did* in fact do a google search earlier in regard to this thread to remind myself of the movie that was made about Jock's having sex with the 14 year old(s) while he was their school counselor but I did not search any of this on Amazon. And there they all are, the David Hamilton's and all the rest....

I didn't realize that Amazon was bringing stuff in from the web like this...fyi

--Darin

Cooookies!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhUFxaauNTE

[Michael E]

Oh, well.

http://https://musicmachinery.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/amazon-freakomendation-baseballbat.png

[Flauvius]

Gregg:

I would appreciate Greg Miller clearing some space in this stored image folder so that I can PM him.


Flauvius

[Greg Miller]

Gregg:

I would appreciate Greg Miller clearing some space in this stored image folder so that I can PM him.


Flauvius

Sorry about that. Mailbox is cleaned out an PM sent. Thanks for reaching out to me.

[Timmyjoe]

New to the forum, and stumbled onto this thread. I always find it fascinating when different people share their views on, and experiences with, photographing the nude. It certainly is a subject where folks have strong feelings.

When I was a broke grad student decades ago I posed for figure drawing classes (not for photography ones) to earn money. Over the last thirty odd years I've had a number of figure studio sessions with my camera. They've all been different, depending on the model and how we interacted with each other. I understand Greg's point about being so focused (pun intended) on the work that the sexual element doesn't play as big of a factor. But I didn't find that always to be the case.

Back when I was single, and working with models who were single, there were times when the sessions eventually evolved into a type of relationship. Other times, not in the slightest. Since I've been married, the option of sessions developing (pun intended) into anything other than images no longer exists. But I always wonder how other photographers and models handle the interactions.

I've known a number of models who shared with me their experiences with a certain model/photographer web site which listed itself as "Where Professional Models Meet Model Photographers" and after hearing their stories, I thought they should list themselves as "Where Aspiring Models Meet Photographers Who Want To F**k Them."

Anyway, my 2¢ worth.

Best,
-Tim

[Jim Jones]

In 1969 I had time to waste in San Francisco, and checked the adds in the Berkeley Barb for a model. There were about 50 ads for models, but only two were female; the others were men interested in some nude activities, but probably not photography. The nearest of the two eligible models was professional and nice.
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