Heidelberg Tango + Win 7 x64 [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

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georgl

11-Jan-2015, 08:40

I am sick of using this awful G4 with Newcolor (Newcolor for PC is useless due to the sharpening-bug) and scared that it's hardware might fail someday.

So I wanted to give Silverfast a second chance, also to have the option to scan C-41. But it does not work on my computer! The old Adaptec-SCSI-card I used 2 years ago does not work with x64, the Ratoc does not work and I am also unable to install Windows XP/7 32Bit on this machine.
Lasersoft was unable to help. Silverfast simply does not recognize any scanner.

Who is using Silverfast + Tango on a modern computer and can tell me the exact configuration (SCSI-card!?)?

Thanks!

Sevo

11-Jan-2015, 09:11

Adaptec don't have Win7 64bit drivers for anything less than the U160 cards. But there are Vista/W2008 64bit drivers for the Ultra series cards out on the net (google for djsvs.inf_6451fbc2) - YMMV whether these will work with modern RAID enclosures or DLT tape drives, but they often will do with old scanners. If that fails, getting hold of a old computer to run a 32bit OS will be much cheaper than getting hold of a U160 card and a matching conversion cable...

sanking

11-Jan-2015, 11:53

georgl

11-Jan-2015, 12:07

Tanks. Just to clarify, it works with my G4, but the G4 is awfully slow, easy to crash and 17 years old...

When I make the switch to Silverfast (which is not even supported anymore, no updates, no current film profiles!) for about 1500€ :mad: I wouldn't like to operate it on another outdated system - but maybe this is the only option. I switched the Adaptec card (from 2930?) because the drivers did not work on Win x64 and the system does not operate with 32bit... So i bought the oldest Adaptec with x64 support - but now Silverfast does not work with this card!:confused:

Grumium

11-Jan-2015, 12:25

I run both NC and SF on Powermac G4 FW800 1.4 GHz and MDD 1.25 GHz and am absolutely happy in terms of speed. I also tried to get the scanner running on a late G5 model (which was slower than the MDD) but didn't succeed. I wouldn't go for the super expensive FireWire-adapter card in case it breaks (hard to find - if found, hard to justify). I prefer to have two or three spare Powermacs ready to work.

The more I scan the less I care for SF. It's a pain to use and only of help when it comes to slides (no sharpening). All the rest yields similar or better results (no sharpening of negatives with NC) with NC.

Which Powermac G4 are you using?

Sevo

11-Jan-2015, 13:08

So i bought the oldest Adaptec with x64 support - but now Silverfast does not work with this card!:confused:

What card would that be? And what driver do you attempt to use? And is Silverfast a 64bit version?

georgl

12-Jan-2015, 08:48

I tested the old 2940 with Win7 32bit as well - Silverfast does not recognize the scanner
I used the 2930LP with Win7 x64 and the original drivers - same problem

domaz

12-Jan-2015, 10:41

Last I checked you could pick up U160 cards pretty cheap on EBay. You would need an adapter as well but that might be the best way to go.

Sevo

12-Jan-2015, 10:46

Do the card/driver/OS combinations tested work with any other SCSI device (scanner, drive or whatever)? If yes, I'd call support if I were you, as that obviously is a flaw in Silverfast. If no, forget about Win7 and get yourself some computer to run XP on.

georgl

12-Jan-2015, 12:30

Yes the hardware was working well otherwise. Support could not help. I just would like to use a reliable machine to run my scanner and not another outdated computer/no longer supported hardware/software when investing 1500€ in software!

Was anybody able to operate the Tango with Win7 32/64bit?

Grumium

12-Jan-2015, 14:32

I don't understand the issue of an outdated device-software chain that has proven its reliability and functionality over the years. The whole chain might be outdated but they work. Why would someone like to adapt an outdated machine, outdated software (paying enormous 1500 Euro doesn't meen that you get an up-to-date software) and protocol to a new computer and state of the art operating system? Even if you get it running - there is nobody who assures you that it is still working after the next os update.

If outdated and missing support is a concern to you, you may look for a different scanner. If you need spare parts: good luck. A new mainboard just set me back about 3000 Euro and I was very happy to find one (otherwise it would have been a 350 kg paperweight). Service is covered by Karl. He is a great guy but single source - if something happens to him, many people may find themself in big, big trouble.

I also tried to replace the G4 with the G5 (in order to reduce noise level) but failed. Others have reported success with the following combination:
Dual 2 GHz PowerPC G5 and OSX 10.5.8
Adaptec 29160N for Mac

You may also get in touch with:
DVS Service AG * | http://www.dvs.ch
Brakensiek | http://www.brakensiek.de
Karl Hudson | http://www.hudsongrafik.com

* As far as I remember Mario had a customer who ran the Tango successfully on a Mac Mini (no Intel) with the use of a Ratok adapter.

Good luck.

Sevo

12-Jan-2015, 14:51

The scanner preceded XP, you are actually lucky you aren't required to maintain a computer capable of running Mac OS 7.5 or Windows 95 for it (or worse, old Unix workstations). I own several bits of hardware tied to computers of that age...

SergeyT

12-Jan-2015, 15:13

G4 PPC 1.5GHz with dual boot and both NC & LC - rock solid and plenty fast for whatever Tango sends in. Use it for scanning only and transfer your files to your modern PC over TCP. Buy another G4 for $100 and spend the rest on film and processing to keep your Tango running.

SergeyT.

georgl

13-Jan-2015, 09:14

Thanks so far

The G4 is simply too slow (it also crashes when trying to transfer data to an USB-stick and handling Newcolor, sometimes it crashes Newcolor on it's own) and really old hardware but I am considering building an industrial-grade PC (mainboard, fanless, SLC-SSD...) with Win XP 32Bit.

But Lasersoft claims that it works with Win7 (the only OS that works with my current workhorse) - has nobody accomplished to reproduce that?

Sevo

13-Jan-2015, 10:35

But Lasersoft claims that it works with Win7 (the only OS that works with my current workhorse) - has nobody accomplished to reproduce that?

I long ago gave up on Silverfast - their licensing model and GUI both being rather unpleasant. But I have no issues with Saphir Ultra II with Vuescan under Win7 64bit, using a Adaptec 29160. But odd scanners that require a special driver never updated after their market introduction frequently will not work in recent OS versions - you'd better consider them and a contemporary computer with the matching OS a closed system that has to be used (and preserved) in its entity. My scan backs require me to run Win98 respectively Mac OS 7.5.

richardman

13-Jan-2015, 13:03

Sorry to sidetrack your post, but this should be a sticky post for all the people who said, "don't buy a flatbed/Imacon/... because drum scanners are easier to use"

Sevo

13-Jan-2015, 13:29

Sorry to sidetrack your post, but this should be a sticky post for all the people who said, "don't buy a flatbed/Imacon/... because drum scanners are easier to use"

You can run into the same issues with a flatbed. Or rather, you probably already will if your intention is to use them with a current computer and the latest Mac OS or Win 8.1 - SCSI support is crumbling on all fronts, both hardware and software.

SergeyT

13-Jan-2015, 15:28

Well, the only slow part in G4 is USB which is 1.x. Use network instead.
It is not recommended to use computer driving the scanner for anything else when scanner is running. Consider it as part of your scanner. Even a slightest delay caused by side activity may and likely will interrupt the normal SCSI data flow and the scanning process will have to be restarted(after Force Quit of the NC process). Probably that is the reason for NC hangs and crashes.
Once started, let the scanner finish the batch completely, then start the file transfer over the network while you mount another set of images onto the drum.

richardman

14-Jan-2015, 02:02

You can run into the same issues with a flatbed. Or rather, you probably already will if your intention is to use them with a current computer and the latest Mac OS or Win 8.1 - SCSI support is crumbling on all fronts, both hardware and software.

Yes, no modern flatbed use SCSI, which is the point. Most modern scanners are supported by Vuescan, which is also the point. In any case, I applaud people who spend times to "get the max," after all, this is why we lug around a 4x5 and up large format camera, so that we can "get the max." Just don't claim "oh it's not that much harder to use than Epson V7xx" because it is.

I would repeat that I write compilers for a living. I know computers inside and out - I have vi commands and regexp memorized on my finger tips. I can even write find commands without doing a "man find" most of the time, but not most people. Using smb:: on a Mac to transfer files over to a Windows machine may sound like a child's play to you, but not everybody LF users is that comfortable with computers.

Sevo

14-Jan-2015, 03:05

Yes, no modern flatbed use SCSI, which is the point.
But there is no professional modern flatbed scanner with a transparency unit - all remaining photo scanners except for the Hasselblad Flextights are prosumer grade, or not even that. Where a Epson V7xx will do as a substitute for a Tango, you might just as well have bypassed LF altogether and used a Nikon D750 to start with...

Using smb:: on a Mac to transfer files over to a Windows machine may sound like a child's play to you, but not everybody LF users is that comfortable with computers.

Back when that scanner and its computer environment were current, transferring files via SMB (or the Internet) to the client was rarely feasible. The scanner operator would copy the file to Syquest, Zip or CD-R for sneakernet transfer to the postpro desk. If you want no dependency on dead or dying media, you can even install a PCI USB2 card in a G4 Mac, to use a USB sneakernet. In any case, there are plenty of ways around being bothered with the chores of maintaining LAN compatibility with legacy computers.

Grumium

14-Jan-2015, 09:55

I am wondering if it is possible to save the files directly onto a NAS bypassing or in addition to the G4 HDD. I haven't found the option in New Color yet.

georgl

14-Jan-2015, 11:33

Bodyslam

14-Jan-2015, 23:09

Georgi, I know you don't like hearing this, but I think your best bet is to get your G4 working properly and stick with Newcolor.

If your G4 is crashing all the time, there's something wrong and it should be fixable. Most likely it's something to do with the configuration. Much less likely is an actual hardware problem. I have one running a Tango, and the computer is never the bottleneck (only my scanning skills.)

Almost any G4 is faster than the scanner. If you need more speed getting the files out onto a hard drive you can install a pci card with fast USB, Firewire 800 and eSATA. And they're cheap.

G4's are robust machines and are as reliable as any, and more reliable than most. In the US they are also widely available and inexpensive. I don't know about where you are.

If you don't know the voodoo that makes a G4 run smoothly you probably should find someone who does. It's not that hard, and once set up it will be rock steady. We can do it right here on the forum if you prefer.

richardman

15-Jan-2015, 01:19

I love snobby people. I am sure there are other people who said if you use ANY scanner not not do optical enlargement, you might as well use an Instamatic. With that, I am out of this thread. So funny.

Christian-NRW

25-Aug-2015, 14:33

So the claim of Lasersoft that Silverfast works on Win7 was never checked by anyone?

I will keep the G4 running but would be thankful for any configuration tips regarding Tango + Silverfast and any SCSI-device (Adaptec, Ratoc...)

Georgl, I just read about your problems with stability running a G4. I was troubled by the same instability. Random crashes and NewColor exiting. Nothing more frustrating than returning eight hours later just to find NewColor exited after the first two scans. This went on for nearly a year so that I used the WinXP version of NewColor in the meantime for large scanning runs. In my case, I noticed a considerable heat buildup in my G4 during operation. I remove the outer plastic shell on the backside of the G4 and installed a large diameter fan directly on the punctuated chassis, sucking warm air out of the case just behind the CPU assembly. It is driven by 5V power supply from inside. Since then, about half a year, the G4 and NewColor have performed flawlessly without a crash during scanning. Totally realiable.

In addition, I took two of three installed hard disk off power to reduce heat buildup in general and ease the load on the internal power supply. I just need one HDD anyway.

Best wishes,
Christian