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mircea nicolae
10-Jan-2015, 10:14
Hello,


I am trying to find out what the water rinse temperature should be for C41 and E6.

So far I have processed 4x5 sheet film with a Tetenal C41 kit on a Jobo Cpp.
Because the rinse part is at the end of the entire process, I used water at room temperature, and it seemed to work fine.

Is it the same for E6?

Basically, can I use water at room temperature for rinsing during E6?
I had a look at a Fuji E6 kit, and they say water should be between 33 and 39 degrees Celsius.

What do you guys think?

Sevo
10-Jan-2015, 11:06
There is no real must-have temperature, indeed colour processes can do with pretty lenient washing as they don't share the problems of black and white film with a silver image attacked by residual fixer. Some have even been modified to do without washing - there have been minilab variations of C41 that used nothing but a thiocyanate complex stabilizer for a rinse. It is more a matter of the temperatures and temperature changes wet film will survive - significant drops are considered unsafe regarding reticulation, and more than 40C is considered unsafe regarding emulsion separation. If you drop the temperature in 5C increments, you could safely wash at any (cold) temperature, if you really want to. However, as four water changes are already considered a sufficient rinse, going below 20C would be pointless.

Corran
10-Jan-2015, 11:13
I just developed some E-6 last night. It's rather cold here and the water was coming out of my pipes at about 50 degrees F, maybe less. I rinsed in that water (coming from 100 degrees F in the chemicals) and then I used a holding tank with warm water to bring the film somewhat back to temperature so that it didn't bring the chemicals down. No noticeable effect on the images at all with high-resolution scans. This is my normal procedure, it's just not usually that cold (usually it's around 70 degrees F).

adelorenzo
10-Jan-2015, 14:15
The instructions that come with my Tetenal kits say the rinse should be 30-40 degrees C (86-104 F).

Daniel Stone
10-Jan-2015, 14:20
If you can, try to keep the entire process(except final rinse/photo flo), including wash steps, at the same/similar temperature. Washing times for E-6 and C-41 are short compared to most b/w processes, so the warmer temperatures helps to ensure that the film is washed to the degree required by the film manufacturers specifications(which some, myself included, elongate longer than the 'required' times).

The only step I would do at room temperature would be the final rinse, prior to hanging the film to dry. And the final rinse step I would perform in a tray, NOT in a jobo drum while rotating on the processor.

-Dan

towolf
10-Jan-2015, 14:36
My Tetenal instruction go from strict to lax. They specify 380.5 for the FD and later 363 for BX and Wash.

http://i.imgur.com/WunQ0OH.png (http://imgur.com/WunQ0OH)

mircea nicolae
10-Jan-2015, 14:45
From what you guys are saying, it is ok to use water at room temperature, but it would be recommended to use 33 to 38 degrees Celsius in order to ensure that temperature is not lowered for the next chemical, and to avoid reticulation (temperature drop), and emulsion separation (over 40 degrees).

Thank you all for your input.



@ Sevo: Just out of curiosity, what are rinse temperatures for BW?

Daniel Stone
10-Jan-2015, 14:52
Development stages are generally what is deemed "critical". Personally, if you have a Jobo, just run everything at the same temperature. I would keep wash water in a separate bucket/water jacket. If you have a sink or bathtub nearby with hot water, you can temper that wash water quite easily, and maintain it.

I've washed color film with water straight from the tap(aka cold). I didn't see any issues with the film, but 'shocking' the film coming from a warm bath straight to 70F wash water might cause reticulation... Hence why I just run everything at the same temp.

-Dan

Kroma
10-Jan-2015, 16:16
​The Last step should be a stabilizer or rinse agent not just plane untreated untempered hard or soft water "If you what a Professional result" I have noticed even with color print & processing, if a stabilizer is not used the colors change over the years, both film and papers. My Whites on the color prints stay a wonderful bone white, prints processed without a formaldehyde stabilizer yellow and become dingy.

mircea nicolae
10-Jan-2015, 17:13
Of course, stabilization is mandatory.

Sirius Glass
10-Jan-2015, 17:24
I tend to follow the instructions of the manufacturer. Call me silly, but I rather follow the instructions of the more knowledgeable than think that I know more than people with the expertise. It has always worked for me.

Zndrson
10-Jan-2015, 23:40
In my experience I'll care less and less about the wash temp as the I progress through the baths. Final rinse I'll use room temperature. You'll be mostly fine unless you rinse in a vastly different temperature than you're next bath. I'm using the Arista E6 kit.

mircea nicolae
11-Jan-2015, 12:14
Ok. Now that I have some idea of the temperature, what would you guys say about water quantities I would need for an E6 rinse?

I would like to develop in the smaller Jobo 2523 tank, which requires 270 ml of chemistry both for 2 x 120 films and for 6 x 4x5 films. Should I rinse the film with just one load / 270 ml of water?

The Fuji kit suggests one entire minute of rinsing.
http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/614/fujifilm-hunt-chrome-6x-e6-processing-kit-5-litres

In my experience, rinses for C-41 tetenal were something like 30 seconds each.

Would that mean that for the Fuji E6 kit above, for example, and with the Jobo drum mentioned, I would need two rinses of 270 ml, to make up for that one-minute rinse in the manual?

Sirius Glass
11-Jan-2015, 18:42
I believe that you should use two 260ml washes, each 30 seconds.