Negative Quality Questions From a Novice

[bertiep]

Hello All,

I'm a long time photographer but brand new to the exciting world of Large Format! I've shot about 25 sheets of film in my new (old) Calumet 4x5 and am beginning to get the hang of things, but I have two concerns:

1. I spend a LOT of time digitally spot-toning in Photoshop, as my negatives have a lot of dust spots, and whats worse, often have large areas which look like they've been scraped (see attached photo #2). I have a fairly clean DIY darkroom set up, and have minimal dust on the 120 negatives which I frequently process, and am wondering if this looks like something to do with my film holders or processing tanks? I'm particularly mystified by the scrapes. If this is a film holder issue, is there a standard cleaning procedure, or is it best to scrap them and buy new ones?

2. The first attached image is the first shot with a film back I just purchased at a used camera store -- is this a familiar light leak pattern? Does it look like something reparable, or do I toss the holder in the trash?

The scratched image is Delta 100 in D76 and the light leak is Tri-X in D76.

Thank you all in advance for any advice you can offer an excited but ignorant new Large Format fan!!

[chassis]

Can you post a full negative frame image of the problems you are seeing? It will help to diagnose the root cause of problems. The white dots look to me like foreign material in the system. Possibly it happened when loading the film in the film holder, or during the film drying step. It also looks like particles of dry chemistry that could somehow have landed on the film. It doesn't look like scratches to me because they do not appear to be stripes or longer than wide.

I need more information to be more helpful.

[Rick Rosen]

If your dust spots occurred when exposing the film they would be clear pin holes and prints or scans would appear as black spots. Make sure your film holders are meticulously cleaned before loading film.
White spots occur when your processed negative is printed or scanned and dust is present on the negative during printing or scanning. Make sure the scanning glass is dust free.

Hope that helps.

Rick

[ic-racer]

All those clear specs shown on your negative are consistent with dust and debris on the negative during exposure.

[bertiep]

Can you post a full negative frame image of the problems you are seeing? It will help to diagnose the root cause of problems. The white dots look to me like foreign material in the system. Possibly it happened when loading the film in the film holder, or during the film drying step. It also looks like particles of dry chemistry that could somehow have landed on the film. It doesn't look like scratches to me because they do not appear to be stripes or longer than wide.

I need more information to be more helpful.

Thanks so much for the advice! Attached is an entire image from the same batch of negatives which gives a more pronounced example of the exasperating phenomenon.

[chassis]

Can you please describe your film processing process in detail? White marks in the positive image means density on the negative. Density on the negative could actually be dirt or dust, or a wet process problem.

[bertiep]

Can you please describe your film processing process in detail? White marks in the positive image means density on the negative. Density on the negative could actually be dirt or dust, or a wet process problem.

I'm using D76 and Kodak Fixer, both from powder, in a "cut film pack developing tank" (or so it says on the exterior of the tank) -- basically a 12 slot, black plastic tank made for 4x5. I do the Delta 100 in D76 at 68 degrees for 12 minutes with 20 seconds of agitation for each minute. I then do a 30 second water wash, followed by 5 minutes of fixer at 68 degrees, with constant agitation for the first minute.

Again -- so grateful for your advice!

[mdarnton]

One thing to do, if you haven't, is to go to a gas station and ask if you can borrow their air hose with a blowgun on it, and blow out the inside of the camera really well, then all of your holders, inside and out. That's assuming the holders are clean to start with. If they aren't clean them with windex and paper towels, again, inside and out, too.

The white specks are NOT consistent with dust during exposure, though: that type of spots will show as black in prints. What I'm seeing are marks from dust and crud that's dried on your negatives from the final wash. There are a couple of ways to stop that:
1/ make the final rinse with distilled water, no PhotoFlo or any other additive.
2/ hang film in a completely dust free place.

This is going to catch some flack, but I've been doing this successfully for 40 years*, so here goes: after a pure water rinse, if you are still having trouble, make a pad of three really cheap (they'll be lint-free if they're cheap) paper towels. Lay your neg on this pile, fold the towels over the neg, and blot them--no rubbing. Then open the sandwich, take one corner of the neg and drag it off the towels (which are then hanging over the edge of your counter) and slightly down, to wipe them off on the edge of the counter-towel. Flip and repeat. Then hang them up. Sometimes crud anchors itself to the film and won't just run off with water (the x-ray film I've been using lately is good at doing this) and wiping the film off is the only way to get the crud unstuck. Even with the very tender x-ray film I have not had scratches. The key is to let the weight of the film do the work--don't push the towels and film together and then slide, just slide. Your only objective in doing this is to wipe off crud AND the pattern of the towels in the water. Then hang to dry. Since I have been doing this to x-ray film I am getting zero scratches AND zero dust.

For tougher strip films, 35mm and 120, I fold the towels over both sides of the film and gently squeegee the whole strip from end to end. Again, I have never had a scratch from doing this. I'm assuming this process will catch a lot of criticism from people who have never actually tried it, though. Don't listen to them. :-)


*I started doing this as a news photog, finishing with a hair dryer to get prints out before my 9AM deadline, but when I discovered how well it worked, I decided to make the process permanent.

[chassis]

I also agree something is happening in the wet process. The suggestions above are a good place to start, and see if improvements can be found.

[Liquid Artist]

One thing to do, if you haven't, is to go to a gas station and ask if you can borrow their air hose with a blowgun on it, and blow out the inside of the camera really well, then all of your holders, inside and out. That's assuming the holders are clean to start with.
I hate disagreeing with someone who may have more experience behind the camera than I do walking on this planet, But Please Do Not Follow this little bit of advice.

Compressors in 100% of all shops have oils, water, and rust inside of them.
Compressing air forms condensation (water), which never completely dries, causing rust. Plus oil is used right in the factory to keep things moving freely.
Unless they have a Good air filter system in them all this crud comes right out the air hose. I would rather not have it in my camera or film holders.

Special compressors are also used in the medical field, and even some camera shops.
If you know someone working with one they may be willing to help you out.
Those compressors are even usually filtered.

[bertiep]

I also agree something is happening in the wet process. The suggestions above are a good place to start, and see if improvements can be found.


OK -- advice taken. I tossed out both my D76 and Fixer, and processed a new batch of film in new chemistry and the mystery marks are gone! Definitely a wet process issue, and I think, as one of you mentioned, it may have been some improperly dissolved chemistry sticking to the negatives. Again, I'm so grateful to all of you for your wisdom.

I'm planing on Windex-ing my film holders before shooting with them again, and will hunt for a safe air compressor, but I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on the weird light leak in image one of my original post? Does this look at all like a familiar leak pattern, because I'm mystified. It was processed in a tank with 4 other sheets of film that turned out fine, so it must be either a loading/leaking/unloading problem, and if anyone has thoughts, I'm all ears.

Thanks again to each of you for dramatically improving my somewhat frustrating day!!

[Michael W]

Something you didn't ask about, but this might be of some use - the photo of the woman looks quite underexposed. Are you aware of bellows compensation for close focusing? It occurs to me that to get focus on her you might have extended the bellows far enough that the light fall off has to be accounted for.
If the light leak you are referring to is the odd, dark, mushroom cloud looking thing, then I'm not sure what caused it. If it's a positive scan then it's not a light leak if it's coming out darker than the rest of the film.

[chassis]

OK -- advice taken. I tossed out both my D76 and Fixer, and processed a new batch of film in new chemistry and the mystery marks are gone! Definitely a wet process issue, and I think, as one of you mentioned, it may have been some improperly dissolved chemistry sticking to the negatives. Again, I'm so grateful to all of you for your wisdom.

I'm planing on Windex-ing my film holders before shooting with them again, and will hunt for a safe air compressor, but I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on the weird light leak in image one of my original post? Does this look at all like a familiar leak pattern, because I'm mystified. It was processed in a tank with 4 other sheets of film that turned out fine, so it must be either a loading/leaking/unloading problem, and if anyone has thoughts, I'm all ears.

Thanks again to each of you for dramatically improving my somewhat frustrating day!!

Glad you're making progress. When mixing powdered chemistry, be sure to follow the suggested water temperatures. If water temp is too low when mixing, all the crystals may not fully dissolve.

[Liquid Artist]

Just a thought bertiep, but unless you have several film holders one can of that compressed air used for blowing dust from electronics will probably work for you.
Just ensure that it's completely upright or it'll spray out liquid.

I've used Windex for my film holders, and it does the job nicely.
However I usually just use lens cleaner since I have bottles of it laying around.

As for mixing chemistry, if you can afford one the best device I've seen is a Magnetic Mixer (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_stirrer)
Some are heated, others not but they all do the job.

[jp]

After you get your film holders clean, store them in a dust free place; I like anti-static bags used for electronics. When my film holders are not being loaded/unloaded or in the camera, they are stored in anti-static bags.

I've seen some of the issues like you've shown from fixer that is dirty/old or unclean final rinse water.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]I'm planing on Windex-ing my film holders before shooting with them again

Windex is fine for removing some sticky stuff (although Stoner's Invisible Glass is best) but for removing dust, which is more pervasive, then Swifter Dusters are the best. They work perfectly, reach in the cracks and are disposable. Just don't get the combination duster and polish or scented kind.
.

[chassis]

For dust removal in film holders I use a lipstick brush and my own wind makers (lungs).

[bertiep]

Something you didn't ask about, but this might be of some use - the photo of the woman looks quite underexposed. Are you aware of bellows compensation for close focusing? It occurs to me that to get focus on her you might have extended the bellows far enough that the light fall off has to be accounted for.
If the light leak you are referring to is the odd, dark, mushroom cloud looking thing, then I'm not sure what caused it. If it's a positive scan then it's not a light leak if it's coming out darker than the rest of the film.

I've developed a piece of film (attached) shot moments after the crazy mushroom cloud of the same subject -- you can see the same subject (this time right side up), but without all the weird irregularity.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help!

[Michael W]

Is this new, in date film, or some old expired stuff? Looks weird.
BTW, you mentioned that you process 120 film. Do you have a regular Paterson tank, one of the ones that does 1 roll of 120 or two of 35mm? If so you could test process one sheet of 4x5 in that to figure out if your developing tank is causing any problems. I often do single sheets of 4x5 in a Paterson tank with excellent results so it should be a good control.
You need 900ml of liquid, curve the sheet around the inside of the tank emulsion facing in, no need to stick it down or anything, it will stay there. Then process as you would with 120 film. Make sure you have the centre post in as that is part of the light trap.

[Liquid Artist]

I use the 2+ 35mm roll paterson tanks the same way as Michael W. It will actually hold 2 - 4x5 sheets, however they will overlap if you are not careful.
I don't use the Taco method you may read about, because the once I tried it all 4 sheets had cracks in the emulsion,

I was thinking. If you are using film change bags or tents they're often a source of dust. I scrub mine out from time to time, plus I like keeping a damp sponge or a little damp paper towel inside while changing film to attract the dust rather than the film.
Since I started that practice my film is much cleaner.