4x5 camera questions

[mkp]

I have a Sinar f and a calumet. they both look to be made well. But, which is a better camera?

what are monorails used for, mostly studio?


what is a decent field camera to get without breaking the bank? Something solid and light. I've never used a 4x5. do field cameras have the adjustments that a monorail do. what is typically the focal length range that can be used on a field camera?

thanks

[Peter Lewin]

1. The Sinar is part of a much larger "system" since almost all Sinar parts from different models are interchangeable. If you were only going to keep one, I would keep the Sinar (assuming both are in equally good condition).
2. Monorails can be used anywhere, and they are the most flexible view cameras in terms of movements. If you had to pick the conditions where monorails have a clear advantage over most other view cameras, it would be studio and architecture. Most good field cameras have almost all the movements of a monorail, but usually you can't push the movements to the same extremes (but mostly you don't need to). The one movement rare on a field camera is rear rise, but you can work around that with a combination of other movements.
3. The Sinar F was designed to be Sinar's most portable camera (the "F" was for "Field"). If you have never used a 4x5, I would use the Sinar F for everything. Once you have experience, you can make a judgment about what camera features and compromises work best for you.
4. The most typical field camera (i.e. folding view camera) focal range would be 90 to maybe 300. Most field cameras can't go shorter than 90 (unless you use a recessed lens board to extend the wide angle range) or longer than 300 (since that is the limit of bellows extension). The Sinar can handle literally any lens, since with a bag bellows you can have the standards just about touching (for really short lenses) and by adding bellows, frames, and monorail sections, you can make the thing as long as you want.

[mkp]

interesting. the Sinar is like new.

[chassis]

Regarding field cameras, a few years ago I bought a mint Toyo 45 AII with lens for around USD 1000. That price was very good, considering the condition of the gear. I am of the belief that this camera in very good condition can be found for under USD 1000 with patience. The 45AII is a solid, packable and easy to use camera that makes great images.

[mkp]

Regarding field cameras, a few years ago I bought a mint Toyo 45 AII with lens for around USD 1000. That price was very good, considering the condition of the gear. I am of the belief that this camera in very good condition can be found for under USD 1000 with patience. The 45AII is a solid, packable and easy to use camera that makes great images.

looks like a really nice camera. before digital was as popular (maybe 15 years ago or so) i was looking at some field cameras and I remember looking at the toyo. correct me if i am wrong but at that time I thought ~ $3500 what it was going for new.

I have a bunch of lenses (4x5) and accessories that were used on a monorail setup. can these lenses be used on the field camera? What are the range of focal length that can be used on your toyo? can the polaroid backs be used?


Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar Synchro – Compur – P 1:5.6/135 1:12/235
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar-s 5.6/300
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar-s 5.6 / 150
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar super angulon 1:8/75
Schneider – Kreuznach Xenotar 1:2.8/150
Synchro – Compur carl meyer near uv oa750 f2.8 5cm

[bigdog]

May I suggest:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info

(It's the "LF Home Page" button at the top of this forum.)

[fishbulb]

I've only had my Sinar F a few days but I find it very portable. You can fully disassemble them - remove the front and rear standards from the rail - and put it in a backpack. However I have spent several hours hiking with it on a tripod, over my shoulder, with the dark cloth as a shoulder pad. With the tripod duly extended and a long monorail, you will look a bit like Christ carrying the cross, but it balances pretty well.

I have a Manfrotto 055 carbon fiber tripod that works well and isn't too heavy. I have an Acratech large leveling base on order, which should fit both the tripod and the bottom plate of the Sonar F perfectly. With a small bag for the light meter, film holders, etc, its really not much different than going out with the same tripod and my D800 DSLR and lenses.

In general, monorails can accommodate more focal lengths than field cameras. However it varies depending on a lot of things, primarily how big the bellows and how close you can move the front and rear standards together. For long lenses, you need long bellows. For short lenses, you need short bellows like a bag bellows. Typically a bag bellows is needed for any lens shorter than 100mm but it varies by camera. Many field camera have difficulty with lenses 300mm or longer but again it varies. It helps to know the specs of the specific camera and also the lenses in question.

All of your lenses could be used on the Sinar F but you'd need a bag bellows for the 75mm. You've got some really nice lenses by the way, that Xenotar 150/2.8 is worth a pretty penny. You would have a tough time using the 300mm on many field cameras due to the weight and focal length but it can be done. A 300mm f/9 might be a better choice due to the lower weight though.

Definitely consider the weight before going into field cameras. The metal Linhoffs and Toyos are rather heavy, but also more stable and durable than lighter wood cameras. Horses for courses. Also one other note, the Sinar F is indeed one of Sinars lightest models, but the Sinar Alpina/A1 was even lighter. However, to keep weight down, the Alpina/A1 uses a different rail and is less interchangeable than the F/F1/F2/F3/X/P1/P2/P3 models, which came in 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10. Parts are readily available, plentiful, and inexpensive, which is what attracted me to Sinar personally. Plus, I love having all of the movements of a monorail!

[mkp]

I've only had my Sinar F a few days but I find it very portable. You can fully disassemble them - remove the front and rear standards from the rail - and put it in a backpack. However I have spent several hours hiking with it on a tripod, over my shoulder, with the dark cloth as a shoulder pad. With the tripod duly extended and a long monorail, you will look a bit like Christ carrying the cross, but it balances pretty well.

I have a Manfrotto 055 carbon fiber tripod that works well and isn't too heavy. I have an Acratech large leveling base on order, which should fit both the tripod and the bottom plate of the Sonar F perfectly. With a small bag for the light meter, film holders, etc, its really not much different than going out with the same tripod and my D800 DSLR and lenses.

In general, monorails can accommodate more focal lengths than field cameras. However it varies depending on a lot of things, primarily how big the bellows and how close you can move the front and rear standards together. For long lenses, you need long bellows. For short lenses, you need short bellows like a bag bellows. Typically a bag bellows is needed for any lens shorter than 100mm but it varies by camera. Many field camera have difficulty with lenses 300mm or longer but again it varies. It helps to know the specs of the specific camera and also the lenses in question.

All of your lenses could be used on the Sinar F but you'd need a bag bellows for the 75mm. You've got some really nice lenses by the way, that Xenotar 150/2.8 is worth a pretty penny. You would have a tough time using the 300mm on many field cameras due to the weight and focal length but it can be done. A 300mm f/9 might be a better choice due to the lower weight though.

Definitely consider the weight before going into field cameras. The metal Linhoffs and Toyos are rather heavy, but also more stable and durable than lighter wood cameras. Horses for courses. Also one other note, the Sinar F is indeed one of Sinars lightest models, but the Sinar Alpina/A1 was even lighter. However, to keep weight down, the Alpina/A1 uses a different rail and is less interchangeable than the F/F1/F2/F3/X/P1/P2/P3 models, which came in 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10. Parts are readily available, plentiful, and inexpensive, which is what attracted me to Sinar personally. Plus, I love having all of the movements of a monorail!

Sounds like you have the portability of your camera down. I do have a bag bellows for the w-angle.

the Xenotar 150/2.8 does fetch a pretty penny and it is in good shape. the 300mm i have is a tank.

thx

[chassis]

looks like a really nice camera. before digital was as popular (maybe 15 years ago or so) i was looking at some field cameras and I remember looking at the toyo. correct me if i am wrong but at that time I thought ~ $3500 what it was going for new.

I have a bunch of lenses (4x5) and accessories that were used on a monorail setup. can these lenses be used on the field camera? What are the range of focal length that can be used on your toyo? can the polaroid backs be used?


Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar Synchro – Compur – P 1:5.6/135 1:12/235
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar-s 5.6/300
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar-s 5.6 / 150
Schneider – Kreuznach Symmar super angulon 1:8/75
Schneider – Kreuznach Xenotar 1:2.8/150
Synchro – Compur carl meyer near uv oa750 f2.8 5cm

I'm no lens expert, but the 75mm and 150mm lenses should work. I use a 58mm Schneider Super Angulon XL, 150mm Nikkor and no-name meniscus around 11" (280mm) with no problems. The 11" lens needs the 4" extension back.

[Rick Rosen]

I own a Sinar F and a Toyo 45AR. Both are excellent cameras. If I had to pick one it would probably be:
1. Toyo 45AF for landscape only as the movements are too limited for architecture or studio use.
2. The Sinar F for general overall use.

The Sinar F does not have to be disassembled for carrying, in spite of the inconvenient carrying brief case that Sinar sold for the camera. You do have to disassemble for that brief case. Which is fine when I go on a location commercial shoot but for landscape photography the camera folds up.

To fold the camera:

1. Move the standards to the ends of the standard 12" rail.
2. Disconnect the bellow from the rear standard.
3. Fold the rear standard forward and loosen the rise/fall knob so you can drop it down to sit just above the rail.
4. With the standard bellows attached fold the front standard backward to ride against the folded rear standard.
5. Make sure the rise/fall and tilt knobs are tightened.
6. Depending on the depth of the rear elements of the lens you can probably leave it attached but check to make sure it doesn't hit the ground glass when folded back.
7. Drop the folded Sinar F into a back pack.

Hope that helps.

Rick

[Alan Gales]

Here is some info on the Toyo 45AII field camera: http://www.toyoview.com/Products/45AII/45AII.html

Yes, you can use your 75mm on it and you can use your 300mm at infinity.

Field cameras have different specs per model so you have to do your research.

[fishbulb]

I own a Sinar F and a Toyo 45AR. Both are excellent cameras. If I had to pick one it would probably be:
1. Toyo 45AF for landscape only as the movements are too limited for architecture or studio use.
2. The Sinar F for general overall use.

The Sinar F does not have to be disassembled for carrying, in spite of the inconvenient carrying brief case that Sinar sold for the camera. You do have to disassemble for that brief case. Which is fine when I go on a location commercial shoot but for landscape photography the camera folds up.

To fold the camera:

1. Move the standards to the ends of the standard 12" rail.
2. Disconnect the bellow from the rear standard.
3. Fold the rear standard forward and loosen the rise/fall knob so you can drop it down to sit just above the rail.
4. With the standard bellows attached fold the front standard backward to ride against the folded rear standard.
5. Make sure the rise/fall and tilt knobs are tightened.
6. Depending on the depth of the rear elements of the lens you can probably leave it attached but check to make sure it doesn't hit the ground glass when folded back.
7. Drop the folded Sinar F into a back pack.

Hope that helps.

Rick

Very helpful Rick, thanks! Never would have thought of that. Good to know!

[Peter Lewin]

One more suggestion, which will result in your keeping the Sinar F. The Sinar uses relatively large lens boards, while most field cameras use smaller Toyo/Linhof/Wista boards. So if you want the best of both worlds, you mount the lenses on the smaller boards to go with the lightweight field camera of your choice. Then you get a Sinar-to-Linhof adaptor board, and you can use the lenses on either camera. This is exactly what I did when I owned a Sinar F and a Wista wooden field camera (one of the ZoneVI modified Wistas). In many ways the best of both worlds, a lightweight but limited camera for backpacking at minimal weight, and the Sinar for everything else. I eventually traded both for a Canham field camera, which is one of, if not the, most flexible field cameras, but there are times when I think the better answer would have been to stick with the Sinar and Wista pairing.

[Rick Rosen]

Anyone know if the Linhof Technika and Toyo 45A boards are interchangeable?

[Alan Gales]

Anyone know if the Linhof Technika and Toyo 45A boards are interchangeable?

The Toyo boards are larger than the Technika boards but Toyo makes a Toyo to Technika adapter board.

[Rick Rosen]

The Toyo boards are larger than the Technika boards but Toyo makes a Toyo to Technika adapter board.

Thanks!

[mkp]

I own a Sinar F and a Toyo 45AR. Both are excellent cameras. If I had to pick one it would probably be:
1. Toyo 45AF for landscape only as the movements are too limited for architecture or studio use.
2. The Sinar F for general overall use.

The Sinar F does not have to be disassembled for carrying, in spite of the inconvenient carrying brief case that Sinar sold for the camera. You do have to disassemble for that brief case. Which is fine when I go on a location commercial shoot but for landscape photography the camera folds up.

To fold the camera:

1. Move the standards to the ends of the standard 12" rail.
2. Disconnect the bellow from the rear standard.
3. Fold the rear standard forward and loosen the rise/fall knob so you can drop it down to sit just above the rail.
4. With the standard bellows attached fold the front standard backward to ride against the folded rear standard.
5. Make sure the rise/fall and tilt knobs are tightened.
6. Depending on the depth of the rear elements of the lens you can probably leave it attached but check to make sure it doesn't hit the ground glass when folded back.
7. Drop the folded Sinar F into a back pack.

Hope that helps.

Rick

Thanks Rick

It does fold up pretty small. didn't realize that it would, weight not too bad either.

I acquired this camera along with some lenses a few years ago but never messed with them. my intention was to sell to some of this stuff but now I'm thinking differently about it.

I also have a 4x5 enlarger....

what would be a way to try this camera out on the cheap? Like film cost and maybe a place that will process the negative? Does Polaroid make a film that carries a negative? thx

[fishbulb]

Well, hopefully this year we will have new black and white polaroid film for 4x5 - until then there really isn't any.


The Polaroid holder/back that came with this kit is a Polaroid 545 (http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polaroid_545). .... It takes (no longer available) Polaroid 4x5 instant sheet film. ....

However, there is a project called New55 (http://www.new55.net/)which successfully raised $415,000 in a Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film)early in 2014 to start making Type 55 black and white instant film again, which will fit this back. According to their blog (http://new55project.blogspot.com/), they should have film available for sale in mid-2015.

To test the camera and see if you like the workflow, I would get a box of 25 sheets of Ilford B&W from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ilford+4x5+film). Assuming you can find a lab in your area that will develop it, it should be about $2-4 per sheet to pay for development, and about $1.50 to buy each sheet of film. So maybe $3-5 per shot, depending. So one box of 25 sheets will cost you $75-125 all in. Makes you think long and hard about each shot, I can assure you. My average so far is about one shot every 30 minutes of walking around looking for photographs. Much slower process than with my DSLR.

Everything you need to know about actually using a 4x5 camera can be found here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html)or on youtube videos. Definitely also read common mistakes (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/mistakes.html) and film loading (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/loading.html) for more tips.

[mkp]

Well, hopefully this year we will have new black and white polaroid film for 4x5 - until then there really isn't any.



To test the camera and see if you like the workflow, I would get a box of 25 sheets of Ilford B&W from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ilford+4x5+film). Assuming you can find a lab in your area that will develop it, it should be about $2-4 per sheet to pay for development, and about $1.50 to buy each sheet of film. So maybe $3-5 per shot, depending. So one box of 25 sheets will cost you $75-125 all in. Makes you think long and hard about each shot, I can assure you. My average so far is about one shot every 30 minutes of walking around looking for photographs. Much slower process than with my DSLR.

Everything you need to know about actually using a 4x5 camera can be found here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html)or on youtube videos. Definitely also read common mistakes (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/mistakes.html) and film loading (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/loading.html) for more tips.

thanks Rick. Yes definitely more deliberate with a VIEW camera, technically and aesthetically. When I go out with my DSLR, I'm usually good for at least 100 images per outing....