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Guy Stewart
20-Dec-2004, 15:28
I would like to know if these is a way to use an electronic focusing system on a large format camera which would replace ground glass focusing. I enjoy portraiture, and a device which would eliminate the need for cumbersome, time-consuming focusing would greatly improve spontaneity, etc.

I know that sometime ago, Linhof sold an electronic range "finding" (as opposed to "finder") system, but apparently it was not successful, and, even if they were available on 8 x 10, traditional split-image rangefinders are hard to use.

However, I beleive Linhof's electonic sysytem was sold at least 10 to 15 years ago, and it occurred to me that someone might know of a newer system that works.

For example, would it be possible to affix some kind of a portable beam-emitting rangefinder to or on the camera's bed, or, in the case of my Sinar P2, the tube to which the front and rear standards are mounted and along which they can be moved forwards and backwards?

The process would work something like this (I think; I took optics in high school, and that was a long time ago.)

1. The subject remains still.

2. An aesthetically pleasing composition is selected. (I tend to like shoulder/head shots.)

3. The subject continues to remains still.

4. The camera is sharp-focused through the ground glass (while the subject is not moving.)

5. The subject continues to remain still.

6. The front lensboard-to-subject distance is measured. (I would probably use a point about 1/3 of the way back from the tip of the subject's nose to the rear of the skull and use 125th/at least f16 for some depth of field. My strobes can easily deliver enough light for this, even using 50 ASA film.) Obviously, whatever sort of "beam" (acoustic, infra-red, etc) is used, it can't annoy the subject or show up on the inage.

7. Thus, the photographer now has a subject which is in sharp focus at a defined lensboard-to-subject distance. (It would seem to me that this is now a fixed focus camera calibrated to a fixed distance of x feet.)

8. The range finder is "set" for that distance and emits a signal to indicate as much.

9. The range finder is capable of emiting a signal once that front lensboard-to-subject distance changes.

10. The session begins.

11. The subject could move about normally, and to "focus" on the changed position of the subject, the entire camera (my tripod is mounted on large industrial wheels with quick-locks) is moved forwards and backwards until the range finder emits a signal that the previously defined/entered lensboard-to-subject distance has once again been established. (Not to belabor the point, but once the mass of the camera body itself locked into "focus," the front lensboard would not be touched.)

Is this feasible? If so, does anyone know of any relatively small range finding device which could be mounted on the camera bed/optical bench? Is there anything out there which is accurate, say to 1/4 or, better yet, to 1/16th of an inch? .

If anyone wants to yack on the phone, feel free to call - collect.

Thanks.

Guy K. Stewart, Jr. (561) 659 - 1810 West Palm Beach, Florida

David A. Goldfarb
20-Dec-2004, 15:37
If I want to be spontaneous in that way, I just use my Technika and check focus with the conventional rangefinder. If 4x5" isn't big enough for you, there are 5x7" Technikas and Graflex reflex cameras (I also use a 5x7" Press Graflex, but the focal plane shutter would require open flash technique, which is a little trickier with the FP shutter than with a leaf shutter). For 8x10", you've got the option of the 8x10" Gowlandflex TLR. I think Lens and Repro had one of the six that were made--not sure if it's still there.

Jim Rice
20-Dec-2004, 16:02
Pretty cool idea, Guy. Especially the (now to me) obvious part of moving the camera instead of the front standard. How about this? Get an old Kalart RF off of a Graphic, add the fucus-spot attatchment, add castors to the tripod, add some kind of sports finder and manually move the camera to align the focus-spot dots on the subject. You could replace the coupling arm on the Kalart with a worm-worm gear combination, focus on the ground glass and dial in the dots anywhere on your subject. I imagine with very little practice it could get to be very intuitive in use.

David A. Goldfarb
20-Dec-2004, 16:19
Following Jim's suggestion, you could just get a conventional shoe-mount rangefinder (they were made by Voigltander, Leitz, and other companies--I have one for my Perkeo II folding 6x6 viewfinder camera), mount it on the rear standard, maybe on a mini ball head, focus on the groundglass, adjust the rangefinder so it's focused on the target, and then just move the tripod on a dolly as you've suggested until the rangefinder shows the image in focus.

Bob Salomon
20-Dec-2004, 16:39
In the early 60s we used an electronic focusing system to focus a very large Robertson process camera in the USAF. You simply placed a test target on the bed and placed a suction cup meter on the gg and focused the lens till the meter peaked. Very accurate.

As the Linhof distributor we sold several of the electronic rangefinders for the Technika 2000. Other then not being able to focus on very flat, non-contrasty subjects or a pattern like a fence or work with 240 and longer lenses it was fine - when the computer that programmed it didn't crash.

The Linhof system worked with an IR sender on the front standard that sent a beam to the rangefinder. The big problem with shots such as you detailed in your posting was that as the distance between the sender and the receiver increased due to focal length or close focusing the accuracy would disappear. Then it would not focus true at close up or with 240 and up. For portraits to reduce foreshortening you would want focal lengths of 240 to 360. None focused true.

The 1960 system worked fine but you had to place a contrasty test pattern in the subject area. The later system never really worked properly and there has been very little demand for either system.

Alan Davenport
20-Dec-2004, 16:54
Wow, we can't even agree on LF.... One of the things I like best about large format is the way it forces me to slow down and work by the numbers.

Certainly there's no reason why AF can't be done in LF systems, but it sounds like an idea with little market potential. Unfortunately, even the professional portrait photographers I know are switching to digital SLRs.

Jim Rice
20-Dec-2004, 17:04
Actually my idea was almost entirely optical (light bulb, switch and battery). David's alternate RF ideas could be combined with the focus-spot idea (it isn't rocket science) with a mini-maglight and simple lens aimed through the occular of the RF, and quite possibly be more accurate. I've always wondered how the Tech 2000's focusing worked.

Jim Rice
20-Dec-2004, 17:09
And frankly, the whole 2000 electronic focusing thing struck me as a supremely dumb idea (no offense Bob). Admittedly I know nothing at all about it.

mark blackman
23-Dec-2004, 05:27
All well and good, but how will this system cope when you need tilts and swings to manipulate the POSF?

Frank Petronio
23-Dec-2004, 05:56
They already have it for the movie industry - provides tracking shots for cameras mounted on rails. $$$$$$$$

Bob Salomon
23-Dec-2004, 06:49
" I've always wondered how the Tech 2000's focusing worked."

Reaf my answer above your response. It had an IR sender on the lens standard.