Deardorff Shake & Take Solution

[neil poulsen]

I've been noticing that my Deardorff 8x10, when mounted on a Manfrotto 3039 head and a Manfrotto 475 tripod will shake quite a bit, if bumped. Is this characteristic of Deardorff 8x10 cameras? Mine is pretty solidly built. I'm also thinking that my tripod/head combination should be able to handle an 11 lbs camera.

Obviously, if the camera gets bumped, it's a matter of letting it settle, and then taking the photograph. But to ask rhetorically, if it's susceptible to shaking in this manner, what happens if a wind comes along?

[axs810]

You could try using a Gitzo PL5 3 way head instead so the head has more coverage on the base of the camera. It might help with the shake.

I have the same tripod and head combo as you and it worked perfectly for my Cambo 8x10 but that might also be because the rail mount was the size of the tripod head attachment piece.

[Luis-F-S]

I use a Ries A100 and don't have any issues. L

[Jac@stafford.net]

I've been noticing that my Deardorff 8x10, when mounted on a Manfrotto 3039 head and a Manfrotto 475 tripod will shake quite a bit, if bumped. Is this characteristic of Deardorff 8x10 cameras?

Neil, it is due to the New Physics. Have you noticed, as I have, that over the years the camera has become heavier, our feet move more slowly, and our eyes are a bit dimmer than when we entered photography?

No help, I realize, but the phenomenon apparently moves with prevailing winds from West to East. Thanks from the Upper Midwest for the warning.
.

[Jim Noel]

I've been noticing that my Deardorff 8x10, when mounted on a Manfrotto 3039 head and a Manfrotto 475 tripod will shake quite a bit, if bumped. Is this characteristic of Deardorff 8x10 cameras? Mine is pretty solidly built. I'm also thinking that my tripod/head combination should be able to handle an 11 lbs camera.

Obviously, if the camera gets bumped, it's a matter of letting it settle, and then taking the photograph. But to ask rhetorically, if it's susceptible to shaking in this manner, what happens if a wind comes along?

It's the tripod and head. Get a wooden one, Ries or Otto.

[Taija71A]

... so the head has more coverage on the base of the camera...


It's the tripod and head. Get a wooden one...


Both are Excellent suggestions! :)
Agreed in full 110%...

At the very least... I too would suggest a different Tripod Head (*One with a much more 'substantial' Fixed Base or QRP).
--
Best regards,

-Tim.
_________

[neil poulsen]

I've been noticing that the head is long as well, which contributes to the moment arm.

[John Kasaian]

I use a Ries A100 and don't have any issues. L
Nor I.

[Ari]

It's the tripod and head. Get a wooden one, Ries or Otto.

I beg to differ; that combination is heavy and large, but very stable. I think all that's needed is to increase the area of contact between camera and QR plate.
The 3039 uses hex plates, so if you can find that Manfrotto hex plate that came with a 4x4 inch platform, you should see a big difference.

[Dan Fromm]

Another possibility is that the set screws in the tripod's platform -- the pointed ones that go through the platform and engage the bottom of the head -- have backed out a little. Back them out a couple of turns, verify the the head is screwed as tightly as possible on to the platform, and retighten the screws. I mention this because I've had those !@#$ screws back out in transit.

Also verify that you have genuine Manfrotto hex plates. I have a couple of knockoffs that are a little too thin and will move in the head. Shimming them or just putting darkroom tape on their bottoms fixed that.

[mdarnton]

I've got an 8x10 Ansco view on one of the big Bogen Tripods, 3046, and three sizes of heads, the 3039 being in the middle. I kept upping the head ante to firm things up, not succeeding. Currently it's got a 3057 head (the one with the honkin' big knob on one side, that is made to take a billion pounds or so of camera), I made a platform for the camera, and there's a 4x4 plate Quick release on that. I think I really have gone about as far as Bogen/Manfrotto stuff will take me without going carbon fiber or wood, and my conclusion is that the thing is a tuning fork.

I also have the original A-A wood tripod, and while that's firm, it's a tuning fork.

I wonder if the people who think they have steady setups just have different standards. Not sure; just wondering. It doesn't matter to me, because I'm always using strobe, but I think the neck area, whatever in the chain is the thinnest single support, is the weak spot, and the best tripod might be a wood one with a flat platform and no head (thus no neck, either) at all--something like the old Graflex wooden tripod.

[Willie]

One way to dampen 'tuning fork' vibration is to place your camera bag/film holder bag against one of the tripod legs. The weight on it works wonders and is much better at quieting vibration than hanging a bag from the center post.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]I wonder if the people who think they have steady setups just have different standards. Not sure; just wondering.

Oh, we know they do. I have an app that measures vibration and creates a graph. It is sensitive enough to register shutter shock, as insignificant as it is.
.

[phillip2446]

hand your camera bag or a sandbag on on the tripod. that will help

[dsphotog]

You might prefer a studio stand.

[David Lobato]

My 8x10 Deardorff shook like an aspen leaf on my Gitzo Studex tripod and Bogen 3047 (uses the hex plates)head. Tightening everything didn't fix it. Last year it was difficult dealing with it at times. The head and tripod are close to 30 years old and a little bit of wear and play adds up. When you extend the Deardorff for a 14 inch lens the small play in the tripod is magnified by the Deardorff's large geometry. It would swing a couple of degrees right or left and up or down. Recently I sucked it up and got a used Reis tripod and head. It was costly but a big improvement. The Reis is also real sweet with my 4x5 camera.

[neil poulsen]

To pick up this thread again, I found an interesting accessory that addresses the camera vibration problem I've experienced, even with an 8x20 that’s more than double the weight of a Deadorff. It's a Monfratto 438 leveler shown in the first photo.

It's kind of a little thing that's about 3.5" across and 2" tall that weighs 1.4lbs; yet, it has a load capacity of 33 lbs (15 kg). It appears to do the job, even with the 8x20. In particular, this 8x20 consists of a Wisner conversion mounted on a Toyo 8x10 G chassis. So, it weighs about 26lbs.

Putting this device on a Monfratto 475 tripod substantially reduces moment-arm (a.k.a. tuning fork) vibration to a manageable level. I can knock on the end of the Toyo rail, and it vibrates, but it quickly damps down. Part of the reason for this vibration reduction could be due to the fact that the leveling head lowers the camera's center of mass closer towards the tripod's platform. While the leveler can hold a heavy camera, I none the less positioned the rail to balance the camera's weight on the head.

I noticed that this device combined with the 475 exhibits quite a bit of rotational vibration around the center column. But this is tripod design, versus the fault of the head. I mounted the 438 on an old, sturdy Linhof tripod that my folks gave me decades ago. It's built tightly enough, that rotational vibration is not a problem.

Using this leveling head, one can't point the camera down. It has about a 10 degree tilt in any direction. But, it's rare that I ever tilt a view camera down, and this will likely never be the case with a panorama. Another inconvenience is that, if one pans the camera after leveling, the leveling is lost. Most ball heads have a separate panning capability. (But losing the leveling is still the case with such ball heads, if the tripod's platform isn't perfectly level) It occurred to me, one could combine this leveler with a Sinar pan-tilt held, have the camera be fairly low to the tripod's platform, and have most, if not all the head capability needed for a view camera.

I have Monfratto hexagonal plates attached to all my cameras, so I may get the Manfrotto 625 hexagonal plate adapter. Conceivably, one could even mount this adapter on both the Sinar head and the leveler.

http://www.manfrotto.com/hexagonal-plate-adapter

Back to the Deardorff, it can’t be attached directly to the leveler, because it has a ¼” mounting thread, versus a 3/8” threading needed for the leveler. But, it has a 4”x4” plate that mounts onto Monfratto hexagonal heads. I can get a 625 and give it a try.

I'll add that, if one uses the leveling head on a tripod with a large platform, they may need to use a washer between the platform and the bottom of the head. The latch that tightens the leveler extends a little below the plane of the bottom of the head.

This leveler is a neat device that’s priced right at about $100 new. This will be my go-to head for the 8x20, and if I get the 625, I may use it regularly for other cameras as well.

[axs810]

The higher the camera rests on the tripod the more vibration you are going to get...I think if you got a Gitzo PL5 or similar tripod head you'll stop having problems with vibration.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[... snip excellent information ... Back to the Deardorff, it can’t be attached directly to the leveler, because it has a ¼” mounting thread, versus a 3/8” threading needed for the leveler.

I finally drilled and tapped a Deardorff mounting plate to 3/8" x 16. There is plenty of aluminum left, in mine at least. It is a substantial improvement. A careful person could use a hand drill and the proper drill-bit and tap to do the job. (I'm lucky to have a drill press.) Or drop by a machine shop for a perfect job.

Use a 5/16" drill size. 3/8" x 16 tap.

Oh, tripods frustrate me. I use this one (http://www.digoliardi.net/skc/skc1.jpg) (ignore the camera) when I don't have to walk too far. It is rock solid; an old converted survey 'pod.

Best of luck.

[neil poulsen]

The higher the camera rests on the tripod the more vibration you are going to get...I think if you got a Gitzo PL5 or similar tripod head you'll stop having problems with vibration.

I bought a PL5 for this camera and used it with about a 7" long plate and two clamps. It works fine, and if needed, I could point it down. But, the 438 leveler works well and weighs quite a bit less.

[neil poulsen]

I finally drilled and tapped a Deardorff mounting plate to 3/8" x 16. There is plenty of aluminum left, in mine at least. It is a substantial improvement. A careful person could use a hand drill and the proper drill-bit and tap to do the job. (I'm lucky to have a drill press.) Or drop by a machine shop for a perfect job.

Use a 5/16" drill size. 3/8" x 16 tap.

Oh, tripods frustrate me. I use this one (http://www.digoliardi.net/skc/skc1.jpg) (ignore the camera) when I don't have to walk too far. It is rock solid; an old converted survey 'pod.

Best of luck.

I sold a similar CF tripod that weighs quite a bit less than the Linhof. I wonder how well it would have worked?