Recommendations for a 4x5 wooden folding field camera?

[fishbulb]

So I have been printing more, and have found my digital images work pretty well up to about 16x20 (about the max size I can print at 300ppi with my Nikon D800) but larger than that they fall apart. I would like to step up to 20x30 or even larger prints and still retain good detail. So I've been looking at/drooling over large format cameras of course! The large majority of my work, and interest, is landscapes in the Pacific Northwest, USA but I also dabble in just about everything else (the blessing and curse of digital capture).

Of course, I started looking at 8x10 Deardorffs. The classic that so many great photographers used. But the cameras are hard to come by, the parts are hard to come by, and there seem to be some issues regarding the reliability of the current owner of the Deardorff namesake, judging by the forum threads I have read, and his BBB grade (F). Sounds like it's one of those things that happens with these one-man companies, as it seems like the same thing happened with the Wisner company a few years ago.

So, I started to think about what's important to me for this:

Criteria 1: A camera that is supported by a current manufacturer, or has a broad and deep used market, so that I don't have to scour flea markets and ebay for hours just to get some more film holders or a replacement part. So I started looking around on ebay and various manufacturer sites, and I realized that I wanted it...

Criteria 2: Ideally made of wood - Linhof Technika's seem like great cameras, but the look just leaves me cold. Same with the Sinar and Toyo - looks functional but too industrial - and in some cases also huge and heavy - So....

Criteria 3: A folding field camera - It doesn't have to be super, ultra light, but something reasonably portable and compact. Which probably means 4x5 and not 8x10. And, this of course lead me to Ebony (http://www.ebonycamera.com/). Amazing stuff. Beautiful cameras. But maybe overkill for just starting out in large format? There are some nice Ebony 4x5 field cameras used on ebay at around the $3,000 mark, which I could afford, but I'm not sure I'd appreciate the value of such a high-end instrument. Same goes for the KB Canham (http://www.canhamcameras.com/) wood 4x5 for about $3,000 new. Looks awesome, but not sure it's the best use of my money at this point. So...

Criteria 4: Good value for the money, good "all arounder" - So I started looking at ShenHao (http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTS.aspx?i=169&id=n3) (4x5's for $800-1100 or so at Badger Graphic (http://www.badgergraphic.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/category&path=2_22_98&sort=p.price&order=ASC)) and also Chamonix (http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/45.html), which are comparably priced. Not as interested in Chamonix due to the use of carbon fiber though.

Also looked at Richard Ritter (http://www.lg4mat.net/ulf.html), but he doesn't make 4x5's (at least not regularly), and Wista, but their website (http://www.wista.co.jp/e_wista/english.htm), and their U.S. distributor's website (http://www.hpmarketingcorp.com/wista.html), are 20 years old and have little current information! There are a few on ebay in an OK price range ($1,000-2,000) but who knows what happens if you need parts or something. The Cherry and Rose models look beautiful though.

So, right now I've probably landed on a ShenHao. Good looks, still being made, good value. But my main question is: is it worth spending the extra money for an Ebony or KB Canham (probably on the used market) to "grow into" or are the differences not really going to be appreciable in terms of actually using the camera vs. just looking at it?

[Liquid Artist]

If I was to buy a wooden 4x5, and could afford it I would look at Ebony.
Although you can buy a small collection of cameras for the same price I doubt that any would come close to the beauty or quality of it.

However, now that I'm shooting 5x7, I rarely touch my 4x5.
Being a close match to your digitals aspect ratio will make it easier to picture the photo in your head plus it's just a nicer size for viewing and contact prints.

Although the film isn't as easy to obtain both Kodak and Ilford seem happy doing up special orders as long as the demand is there.

[Will Frostmill]

I'll point out that in 30 days you'll have access to the For Sale subforum. There are a lot of cameras, holders, and lenses, bought and sold there, and repair services offered by people who know what they are doing. If it's a camera part, no matter how obscure, someone here sells it, re-manufactures it, or knows where to source it.

I have had no experience with Ebony cameras, but that's a lot of money to spend on a light-tight box, particularly when functionally equivalent cameras can be had for a fraction of the price. If I had money to burn, of course I'd buy some beautiful cherry wood and brass camera. If you can afford it, go for it, and have fun!

As for "growing into", well it's the whole system that's complex, not the individual parts. It's the interaction between shift, and tilt, and depth of field limits, and bellows extension factors, and film plane registration, and light meter, and tripod vibration, and wind, and on and on and on that makes LF complicated. An expensive LF camera is almost always as complex as a cheap one. (There's some subtleties about on axis tilts vs off, and rear rise and fall vs. front that matter for some things, but not others, but that's not necessarily reflected in price.)

[fishbulb]

Thanks for the advice! I hadn't thought about the aspect ratio difference, although I often crop to an 4/5 ratio for 16x20 prints.

Yes there are some very cheap 4x5 outfits to be had, especially on Craigslist, if one does not care too much about the brand, quality, or condition. There is a large Sinar P kit with 4 lenses for sale locally for a few hundred dollars, for example. But it needs repairs and who knows what else I'm sure.


I'll point out that in 30 days you'll have access to the For Sale subforum. There are a lot of cameras, holders, and lenses, bought and sold there, and repair services offered by people who know what they are doing. If it's a camera part, no matter how obscure, someone here sells it, re-manufactures it, or knows where to source it.

Ah thanks for that. I was wondering if there was a for sale forum here. A 30 day wait period just to view the for sale forum? I could understand a wait period to post there, but a wait period just to view it?

Ah well. I'll check back for that forum in a month if I haven't settled on anything that can be purchased from a manufacturer, distributor, eBay, KEH, B&H, Adorama, local craigslist, local camera shop, or one of the other dozens of places.

[Liquid Artist]

Just my opinion but most people on ebay and most Web based stores hose you on the shipping unless you find several items from them and they are willing to combine shipping.

Whereas on this forum most people just charge actual shipping costs, or even just wave them off.

[John Kasaian]

The advantage of a pricier camera should be in the camera its self. Some cameras are just more intuitive for some people but you won't know which until you get enough experience to define what works best for you.
The more fun a LF camera is, the more you'll shoot and the better you'll get at it.
All else being equal, an expensive new camera won't take any better photo than an old used camera---a light tight box is a light tight box. A sturdy tripod and quality lens (and you) will make more of an impact on your image than the name written on your camera.
My 2 cents anyway.
And as for film holders you'll find Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity as standardized as it gets.
Enjoy!

[Peter Collins]

Re-read and memorize what John Kasaian wrote. (!!)

[Liquid Artist]

And as for film holders you'll find Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity as standardized as it gets.
Enjoy!
Film Holders are subjective.
Several people here swear by Toyo, and won't use anything else. They claim they're the only ones where the film plane is always within specs, or something like that. They may be right, however I only own a mixture of Lisco, Riteway and Fidelity myself and am happy with the image quality I get from all of them. I may be less fussy than them, or may have lucked out with all 24 in my collection.

If you do decide to join the Toyo crowd you may want whoever you buy them from to ensure that they don't Stink.
Some people say some of the newer ones have that awful cheap plastic stench you'll find with some items.
I have never read of anyone getting rid of the stench, even after scrubbing them plus waiting a year.

[Jim Jones]

Forty years ago I bought a 5x7 B&J flatbed and soon after a 4x5 back for it. I still use it now and then, despite having other LF gear that is even better for many purposes. Few cameras have more extensive swings and tilts. A featherweight field camera may weigh three pounds less, but that makes little difference by the time you've added lenses, film holders, and other accessories. There are many of these cameras and accessories available used. They use lens boards that are readily made with basic equipment. The wood is sometimes nice under the grey paint. A B&J isn't the ultimate camera for hardly anyone, but it is a great starter. You can select the second view camera much better after using the first one. Then you can sell (or give) the B&J to someone else just moving up to LF.

[Alan Gales]

What if you buy a brand new Ebony and decide that sheet film just isn't for you? You are going to take a hit when you sell it. That's why a lot of us recommend buying a used camera as a first camera. If you later sell it you will at least get most of your money back.

Cameras are very subjective. What one person likes another doesn't and no camera is perfect. You need to shoot 4x5 for a while to even know what you like.

I'd try to find a good used camera at a fair price.


If I wanted a Deardorff I would have no qualms about buying a used one in good shape. They were very well made.

[Oren Grad]

Not as interested in Chamonix due to the use of carbon fiber though.

What specific concern do you have with carbon fiber in the Chamonix camera?

[fishbulb]

Nothing in particular. Just doesn't seem to really fit the look and feel I'm interested in. Wood and metal. Otherwise I'd just get a Sinar X or a Linhof or something.

[Tim Meisburger]

Based on your criteria, I think you cannot go wrong with a Shen Hao. I have an Ebony 45s (non-folder), and if you like that type of camera, Shen Hao makes a clone. Otherwise, I hear good things about the Shen Hao folding field cameras. Another alternative used would be a Wista in good shape. You would get the wood and brass and a very capable camera. If you can keep your budget for a new camera to about $900 or a used camera about $600, you will have that much money left over for lenses, lenses, lenses, plus holders, a loupe, and barkcloth, a good tripod, a pack to carry it in, some sort of tank for developing, etc. etc...

My 2c

[Jeff Keller]

If you like a wide range of focal lengths, the all metal Canham cameras are great. No box to constrain the very nice bellows. If you don't need to go ultrawide nor expect to put a roll film holder on the camera then you should be able to pick almost anything that looks and feels good to you.
Jeff

[Bruce Barlow]

For openers, chances are you won't notice the carbon fiber, and the lightness is worth it. My Richard Ritter 8x10 weighs 6 pounds, because much of it is carbon fiber.My Sinar weighs 14. I'm old, so weight matters.

Lots of used Zone VI cameras out there, I helped build about 1,000 in the late 80s. They work well, Richard repairs them, and has, or can make, any part you might need when you run over it with your half track. Try getting parts for an Ebony. Good luck with that. In one case Richard got fed up waiting (as I recall, 6 months with no responses to inquiries) and made his own.

I bought a little cherry Wista in 1984. It's a basic 4x5, with all the movements you need, and enough bellows for my 240mm lens. I figured I'd replace it when I found something that I needed to do that the Wista couldn't. Compact folded up.

It is still my primary 4x5 camera. I have Richard's 5x7 with a 4x5 reducing back, which I can use with my 300mm, 360, and 19" lenses, but don't.

And, by the way, I got the Wista with a 210mm lens, and used it for a year. Then I added a 120mm. The 120mm rarely comes out of the plastic storage box. I learned to see in 210mm, it fits most of the New England subjects I photograph, and is a great portrait lens for 4x5. If I were a better person I'd put it away and spend a year using only the 120mm, just to learn it. I don't have similar issues with the longer lenses on 5x7 and 8x10, because I got them all pretty much at the same time.

Long story long, I'd go with a Wista or Zone VI.

Finally, film holders. Toyos are hard to find, and the world of photographers has not seemed to suffer from using Liscos, Riteways, and Fidelities. They're fine. I own 30, and have actually used all of them in one day. Life is too short to have one less holder than you need. What if Ansel had seen "Moonrise," and said "Argle bargle! Just used my last holder!"

[Liquid Artist]

Finally, film holders. I own 30, and have actually used all of them in one day. Life is too short to have one less holder than you need. What if Ansel had seen "Moonrise," and said "Argle bargle! Just used my last holder!"
That's a lot of photos in one day.
Although I've never come close to that, I must agree with you. At one point I hadn't had the chance to develop any photos for a while, and I just had enough to get by.
I'll be in the same situation while working out of town in some beautiful country the next 3 months.
Although I've never run out with my 5x7, I don't feel that the 14 holders I have for it are enough.

[John Kasaian]

They're fine. I own 30, and have actually used all of them in one day. Life is too short to have one less holder than you need. What if Ansel had seen "Moonrise," and said "Argle bargle! Just used my last holder!"

Why, he'd dive head first into his sleeping bag, empty and reload a few more film holders, of course!:)

[Regular Rod]

...So, right now I've probably landed on a ShenHao. Good looks, still being made, good value. But my main question is: is it worth spending the extra money for an Ebony or KB Canham (probably on the used market) to "grow into" or are the differences not really going to be appreciable in terms of actually using the camera vs. just looking at it?

Almost certainly No.

Neither will they be any better looking. The Shen Hao cameras look pretty damn good as well as being functional and well made. After sales care straight from Shen Hao is pretty good too in my personal experience.

RR

[Bruce Barlow]

Why, he'd dive head first into his sleeping bag, empty and reload a few more film holders, of course!:)

And attract every dust bunny within 3 miles...

[fishbulb]

Thanks for the advice everyone. There are certainly some nice Wistas on ebay that I've been eyeing...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281544390241

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261710221504

Thoughts on the Wista DX? Seems like a nice camera. Really hard to get a good feel for pricing due to the small market on a lot of these used cameras. For all I know both those are a bargain, or the biggest ripoff of the century. Ah well. Good to keep an eye on eBay.

As a side note, it is astounding to me how many poorly-run businesses there are in the large-format world. Antiquated websites (e.g. wista), long wait times, hit-and-miss quality conrol issues, long/no response times, good inventory but no pictures (Igor, blue moon and many others), etc. In the DSLR world, there is enough competition that you can't skimp on customer service and stay in business. LF is night and day by comparison.

[John Kasaian]

And attract every dust bunny within 3 miles...
Dust bunnies didn't stop him.

[Jeff Dexheimer]

I am using a shen hao ptb45 and it is my favorite camera so far. I have tried many cameras and your camera preference comes down to your own personal feel. My strongest recommendation would be to buy a used camera that's not too expensive. Frankly, if you don't like it, you can likely resell for what you paid.

[fishbulb]

Well what I ended up doing is taking the above advice to "buy a used camera that's not too expensive". Anything decent in wood is just a fortune compared to what you can get for a used monorail, and I'm just not sure I'm able to make an informed decision about what I need as of yet.

Well, I went to Blue Moon Camera (http://www.bluemooncamera.com) in Portland, OR yesterday, and checked out a wide variety of large format cameras. Today I decided on a very nice used setup they had on consignment:

* Sinar F monorail in, I would say A-/B+ condition, with very good bellows (original aluminum & black F, not the all-black F1 or F2, but that's OK)
* Sinar wide angle bellows
* Sinar rail extension
* Eight dual 4x5 sheet film holders, Fidelity Elite
* Polaroid back, just in case they start making the film again ;-)
* Air-powered shutter release, spooled vinyl cable, "Rowi" made in Germany. Four lengths of vinyl cable with metal connections: 10ft, 18ft, 24ft, 30ft (~82ft total) - yes it still works through all 82 feet connected together!
* Old lightweight Samsonite case to carry it around in (will be looking for a real Sinar case in the future)

All of the above, $250

* Ashai Pentax Spotmeter V w/ case - $180
* 180mm f/5.6 Caltar II-N (Rodenstock Sironar-N), in Copal #1, with ~1ft cable release, A/A- condition, $250
* Loupe for ground glass, $15
* Ilford Delta 100 x25 sheets, $44.50
* Hoya UV filter, $26.90 (maybe not that necessary, but oh well)

So out the door, for $766.40 and ready to shoot! And fully inspected, tested equipment with a warranty, no shipping charges, and several hours of advice from an experienced large format photographer (8x10 deardorff), Jake Shivery (http://www.jakeshivery.com).

What I personally liked about the Sinar system, the more I looked at it, is that they are plentiful on the used market, and all of the F/P/X Sinars, whether 4x5, 5x7, or 8x10, share a lot of the same components and accessories. I also love the full range of adjustments and the precision of the geared focusing, and the rock-solid stability of the setup. Plus, as others mentioned, I can sell it later and little money is lost vs. selling a used expensive folding field camera.

[Tim Meisburger]

Sweet. The camera deal is like free! Goto to get me one of those long releases someday...

[John Kasaian]

Sweet deal!

[Alan Gales]

You did good. Sinar is the best deal over all for monorails in the U.S.

If you decide to buy a field camera later, most take Technika style lens boards. You can pick up a Sinar to Technika board so you can easily swap lenses between the monorail and field camera. Owning both a monorail and field camera gives you a lot of versatility. Enjoy!

[Winger]

And depending on which Polaroid holder you got, if it takes Fuji FP100C, that gives you an extra learning tool, too. It's faster, slightly cheaper, and a little easier than shooting film while you learn how it all goes together.

Blue Moon is where I mail all my color film (no 4x5, yet, but all my smaller stuff) - great job every time.

[fishbulb]

Thanks everyone. I went out and shot eight frames of the Ilford 100 this morning. Exposures ranging from 1/60th to 4 seconds, mostly landscape. Will be interesting to see how they come out.

Things I have learned today:

- you get faster as you go. Shots #7 and 8 were much quicker to set up than #1 and 2
- people will talk to you. Very few people ever stop me when I'm out and about with my DSLR, no matter how much gear I have. But I had three fairly lengthy conversations started with me today about this kit while working in the arboretum, and there weren't even a lot of people about. This is interesting but I could see it becoming a hinderance if the lighting is very fleeting and I'm trying to get stuff done.
- don't forget to look at your subject before you press the shutter to see if the light changed and you need to remeter!
- i need more lenses - looking to get a 20mm-equivalent (~75mm), a 35mm-equivalent (~135mm) and a 85mm-equivalent (~360mm), since these are the angles of view, in 35mm-equivalent terms, that I'm most used to. i missed a number of shots that i wished i had these lenses for, particularly the 75 and the 360
- i should bring the extension rail with me when i go out. missed a good macro shot or three because of that.
- edit: also i probably need a leveling base for my tripod. DSLR ballhead is too small.

The Polaroid holder/back that came with this kit is a Polaroid 545 (http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polaroid_545) (this kind - ebay link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Polaroid-545-Land-Film-Holder-Only/161531457974) and instructional video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBvqPQn4he8)). It takes (no longer available) Polaroid 4x5 instant sheet film. Edit: Also FP100C in 4x5 format has been discontinued (http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/02/20/fujifilm-discontinue-production-fp-100c-4x5-peel-apart-film/), but you can still get the smaller formats.

However, there is a project called New55 (http://www.new55.net/)which successfully raised $415,000 in a Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film) early in 2014 to start making Type 55 black and white instant film again, which will fit this back. According to their blog (http://new55project.blogspot.com/), they should have film available for sale in mid-2015. The back needs cleaning but appears functional, so I will be taking it apart and cleaning it soon.

[Winger]

...

The Polaroid holder/back that came with this kit is a Polaroid 545 (http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polaroid_545) (this kind - ebay link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Polaroid-545-Land-Film-Holder-Only/161531457974) and instructional video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBvqPQn4he8)). It takes (no longer available) Polaroid 4x5 instant sheet film. I'm not sure if I can load Fuji FP100C in it - it seems like that film would be too small. However, there is a project called New55 (http://www.new55.net/)which successfully raised $415,000 in a Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bobcrowley/new55-film) early in 2014 to start making Type 55 black and white instant film again, which will fit this back. According to their blog (http://new55project.blogspot.com/), they should have film available for sale in mid-2015. The back needs cleaning but appears functional, so I will be taking it apart and cleaning it soon.

The Fuji instant FP100C will not fit that holder; correct. The New55 should, if/when it hits the market. And, yes, the New55 project did raise a good amount in their kickstarter. No guarantee, but they do seem to be moving along (with maybe a few bumps in the road).

[Will Frostmill]

Sounds like you are having great fun already! Good job!

[Tim Meisburger]

Gwilco, just to let you know, you are not allowed to sell anything on the forum until you have been a member for 30 days, and then it needs to be in the For Sale section (which you will have access to after 30 days), and a price must be stated. All that being said, stick around, as I think there are quite a few people on the forum that would be interested in that camera.

Best, Tim

[fishbulb]

That does indeed sound like a beautiful camera! But too much for me, both in intrinsic value, and likely basic price as well. You should really keep it for the memory of your brother. If not though, there may be someone else interested on this site.

[Kuzano]

I've had three Shen Hao 4X5. I always end up selling them for the same reason.

They are very well built, very sturdy locked down, and very pretty.. OK good looking. Love the black fittings and black walnut version.
I use them for a while. Then I sell them for the same reason. They are tanks and weigh a ton. OK... they're very heavy. Another favorite of mine is the Toyo 45A.

However the reason to buy a wood field camera is to reduce weight. Every Shen Hao I had weighed nearly as much as the Toyo. Seems counter productive to me to buy wood to get the weight down, and give up the rigidity of a metal camera. I do wish I have tried the Shen Hao PTB45. The reduction of the folding mechanisms may have brought the weight down.

The camera's that produced well and offered lesser weight were the Wista D, and the Tachihara (which is the same camera in Woodfield and one other)
Those camera's met the primary requirement of going wood folding... light weight, reasonably stable and budget pricing. Most Tachihara's and Wista D's should get the work done and be available at about $500 for the body.

I don't have a body of work in presentable form, but here is a web site of a friend who has used a Tachihara (same body) and the same three lens and same film emulsion (one change) for over two decades. Carries all plus a dozen holders in a back pack. His work shows what can be done with a well cared for Tachi.

www.brucejackson.com

[Regular Rod]

Amazing! I have an MPP Mk VII and a Shen Hao. I would never think of the Shen Hao as heavy... I suppose it is what you get used to.

RR

[Kuzano]

Well that was after the heart attack, triple bypass and 2 subequent stents and now 71. Mayhaps you are right, but I've owned three Toyo 45A, one Toyo 45AII and three Shen Haos, and I bought the first and second Shen Hao hoping to move from the weight of the Toyo's. After the last Shen Hao, I moved to Tachihara and a Wista D. Major difference between the last Shen Hao and the Tachihara. 5.5 pounds down to 3 1/2 pounds. and less money by nearly half, since the Shen Hao's were new.

[Rick Rosen]

I was hiking up to Sentinel Dome in Yosemite. I had my Toyo 45AR on an aluminum Bolex tripod slung over my shoulder. Another photographer passed me with his light weight wooden camera on a wooden tripod. He couldn't resist taunting me for carrying such a heavy system when he was so smart to carry his wooden light weight system. I just shrugged and ignored him.

Up on the dome he set up his tripod close to the edge. I was setting up my camera farther back from the cliff. He got out from under his dark cloth which was attached to the camera. He turned around to get a film holder and a gust of wind came up the cliff, picked up his camera and tripod and tossed it over the cliff. Fortunately for him and perhaps someone in the valley below he was able to grab the bottom of a tripod leg as it went over which leveraged it into the cliff face. The camera and lens were destroyed.

In the field, a little weight on a sturdy tripod without an attached dark cloth suits me just fine.

[StoneNYC]

Glad you're learning so much and out shooting 4x5 film.

When you are ready to purchase a field camera I highly highly recommend you rethink the purchase of a Chamonix, of all of the cameras on the market it is the most amazing lightweight beautiful reasonably priced camera out there, I was too at first concerned that it would look non-wood, but it is a beautiful camera and you would never even know that there's any carbon fiber on it, as the only real piece of carbon fiber is the baseboard, the rest is beautiful wood, and it's sturdy as heck...

The Shen-Hao I've seen other people use it is also a good option, but I purchased the 8x10 Chamonix with absolutely no regrets it's amazing!

Just saying...

Best of luck in your 4x5 adventures!

[fishbulb]

Thanks! I am absolutely loving shooting with the Sinar F and the 4x5. I use the movements quite a bit actually, although mostly just rise/fall/shift to aid in composition. Just dropped off 12 frames to be developed today.

And yesterday I umm... bought a drum scanner actually (details (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?112737-DPL-users-owners-of-Howtek-Aztek-scanners&p=1203037&viewfull=1#post1203037)). I just couldn't pass it up, knowing that I may never have another opportunity to buy one this close to my house.

So when I get the negatives back from the developer I will scan them and see how they look. Can't wait! Been setting up the scanner today in the closet adjacent to my PC.

[Gwilco52]

Thanks, sorry. Unfamiliar with that rule, thanks

[letchhausen]

I started with a Tachihara, moved to a Sinar F which I dumped because it was too heavy and slow in the sort of urban shooting that I do. Luckily I got a used Ebony SV45U and found that's the camera for me. I love that thing. Does anyone know what happened to Tachihara? I kept mine as a backup though it's a far cry from the Ebony but they were great beginner cameras at the price. I don't see them at any of the usual vendors and I used to see them on ebay but not any longer.

I've been thinking about moving to 8x10 and the Tachi was cheaper than the Chamonix.....

[fishbulb]

Interesting, in what ways did you find the Sinar slower to use than a folding field camera? More movements to deal with? They are definitely heavier to lug around...

[Ken Lee]

I have a Tachihara (purchased as an Osaka). I had one, sold it, then bought another one years later. Not because it has all the bells and whistles, but because it's been a fortunate camera for me. I use a Sinar P in the field but when I really need to walk about I use the Tachihara.

I wish it had longer bellows draw but tried other field cameras with longer bellows - but didn't have good luck with them.

Some times it comes down to... intangibles.