4x5 Processing/scanning question

[andred2809]

Hi Folks,

Quick question, or should I say daft question.

On Tuesday I will be taking my first ever 8 sheets of film up to my local lab for processing/scanning, and Im not sure about one thing.

I have my film holders numbered and I made a note of exposure/aperture etc etc, so I know what each film in each holder corresponds to... Now here's my conundrum(and I'm sure there's a stupid easy answer)

Once I remove all of the films from the holders and stick them in the box to send up to the lab, how am I know supposed to know which film is which?


Thanks in advance,

Andy.

[bob carnie]

You are asking for collation, and depending on the lab they may or may not do this for you... Certainly a charge would apply for this... I process in Jobo so if you came to me
with this request I would not be able to collate for you.
If the lab is using large refrema dip and dunk they may be able to twin check to your holders as they load the film onto the hangers. Very common in E6 labs.

[towolf]

There’s this binary notching system (https://books.google.de/books?id=tYmblNt3wG8C&lpg=PA465&ots=FUgDCJ5hLf&pg=PA463) floating around. It would imprint marks on the sheet edges that decode binary marks to sequential numbers. But you have to cut these notches into the bottom flaps of every holder.

[Jim Jones]

I've long used a variation on Ralph Lambrecht's binary system of marking film holders. Five small notches are cut in each flap, and the digits that are to be counted are enlarged. This eliminates the need for the steel rule guide that Ralph mentions.

[Peter Lewin]

Another version of the notch approach that I've used is to drill very small holes in the "lips" that hold the film in the holder. Once developed, these show as dots in the rebate area of your negatives. Either drill a number of holes to equal a number, or utilize different patterns; either way gives you a way to match a negative to a particular holder side.

[andred2809]

Thanks for replies chaps. I think in short term for film of multiple shots of same composition I think I'll have to stay blind. Maybe look into the binary system long term.

At least you helped me to conclude I aint daft, and there is no 'straightforward' answer that I missed.

Thanks again. Andy.

[Christopher Barrett]

Well, if you (and they) have the patience, you could always send them one sheet at a time.

[Ari]

Notching holders takes little time and is worth the effort if you want to keep track of your exposures, as well as keep data on each sheet.
I notched my holders for just that, but I've since abandoned the record-keeping.
Now, it's useful only if there's a problem film holder (light leak, etc.); I know right away who is the culprit.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Remember the Autograph? That would be so cool on LF.

[StoneNYC]

Doing it yourself it's really the only way you can achieve this at this stage, unless you have multiple 4 x 5 boxes and can send the boxes separately, but then you have to pay for separate shipping for each one I suppose.

Bob Carney, the JOBO 3005 I use for 8x10 has Roman numerals next to each hole, so in theory you could still collate because you could make sure to start with the first hole and work your way around couldn't you? Or does the 3010 not have this feature?

[Doremus Scudder]

If you are doing tests, just include a sheet of paper or card with the relevant information in the image area (e.g., "f/32-1/15-#25").

If you are bracketing, then it should be rather straightforward to line up the exposures from less to more. The same with differing filtration; it should show up in the image itself.

FWIW, though, I notched my filmholders corresponding to holder number about a century ago :) and am more than happy I did. I have two sets of notched/numbered holders, one in the U.S. and one in Europe for a total of about 70. The notches are only difficult to see once in a while when they fall in a completely dark area of image (clear on the neg), but subject matter usually makes it easy to tell which is which. I use the numbers as part of my cataloging system. All the keeper negs go into four-sheet pages in roughly chronological order; these go into binders which are then numbered. The negatives are then identified as Subject-Binder#/Neg# (e.g., RockyCove-31/55). Often I'll have two of the same designation in one binder, but the subject matter, again, tells them apart.

Best,

Doremus

[Lenny Eiger]

When you are doing tests, it is best to do tests. Use different holders to take photographs. For the tests, shoot something that has the same kind of textures you will want to be shooting, in similar light. I have a little whiteboard, about a foot (30cm) square, that I can put in the scene to identify which exposure is which.

I second the comments about developing film yourself... it's a much better way to go. Especially if you can use some Xtol or Pyro. And some TGrained film like Delta 100, or TMax. They are excellent.

Lenny

[djdister]

is there a thread here that shows how to drill/notch film holders? it is such a simple idea but has never crossed my simple mind!

It has been discussed incidentally in several threads:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?119495-Loading-film-holders
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?118558-Labeling-negatives-numeracly

[photonsoup]

I had a bunch of old film holders that I wanted test for light tightness. Being to lazy to file notches or drill holes I made little masking tape flaps that protruded 1/8" onto the film area and cut notches with scissors. very quick, non permanent and works well.

[NoBob]

Do you have any photos of your masking tape flaps you could post, Bryan?

[bob carnie]

Its Carnie ... I use the expert drums and like anything else human error could occur , you could have a sheet of film in your hand.. sneeze , bump the drum, rotate it and then it would move and your screwed.
You could twin check each holder and corresponding film but people would bitch about a twin check on the film... Big dip and dunk allowed one to twin check holders then put the corresponding twin on the metal hanger hanger.

Collation would be possible as you say but I sure wouldn't want to do it with a Jobo.



Doing it yourself it's really the only way you can achieve this at this stage, unless you have multiple 4 x 5 boxes and can send the boxes separately, but then you have to pay for separate shipping for each one I suppose.

Bob Carney, the JOBO 3005 I use for 8x10 has Roman numerals next to each hole, so in theory you could still collate because you could make sure to start with the first hole and work your way around couldn't you? Or does the 3010 not have this feature?

[photonsoup]

Once I remove all of the films from the holders and stick them in the box to send up to the lab, how am I know supposed to know which film is which?


Probably to late....... but when you unload your holders have a pair of fingernail clippers and clip the corners of your film sheets. I haven't done the math but I'm sure there are at least 16 various patterns you could make by clipping one ore more of the four corners. Just make sure you assign the correct notes to the correct piece of film.

[photonsoup]

Do you have any photos of your masking tape flaps you could post, Bryan?

Turns out I actually used black electrical tape. to hard to see in pictures so heres a video using yellow electrical tape


http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0890.mov

If never linked to a video so if its not here, HELP!!!!!! if anyone knows how let me know. If it did work, cool, I'll use it more often!

[photonsoup]

Now I will attempt to make you really jealous. I bought a lens from a guy on craigslist, while I was visiting with him he gave me 16 like new film holders in a case. When I got home and started to check them out, 10 of them have two small, clear, plastic wheels attached to the flap. each wheel is numbered from 0 to 9 in reverse. so the numbers are correct on the prints. This is where I got the idea for the tape.

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0892.jpg

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0892a.jpg

[StoneNYC]

Now I will attempt to make you really jealous. I bought a lens from a guy on craigslist, while I was visiting with him he gave me 16 like new film holders in a case. When I got home and started to check them out, 10 of them have two small, clear, plastic wheels attached to the flap. each wheel is numbered from 0 to 9 in reverse. so the numbers are correct on the prints. This is where I got the idea for the tape.

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0892.jpg

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0892a.jpg

What the heck!!! That's awesome!!!! Where did these come from??? Do all Riteway holders have this?

[cowanw]

I sometimes notch the corners of my films before I put them in, with finger nail clippers and match that with the number in the white window on the outside. Keep your notes and you are good to go. when the film is developed write the info in the clear bits on the border with pitt black ink pens

[vinny]

What the heck!!! That's awesome!!!! Where did these come from??? Do all Riteway holders have this?
Burbank, CA. No

[NoBob]

Thanks for the video, Bryan. That's great!

How are the little number wheels attached inside?

[djdister]

I've got ten of the Riteway 4x5 holders with the little number wheels - it's nice to have, but I'm not a big fan of the little dark slide locking pins that they come with. I often have to readjust the holder after sliding it in because the back of the camera isn't pushing in on the dark slide release pin enough. So - you think you're ready to take the picture and -- you can't pull the dark slide out. Re-seat the holder and try pulling it again. Repeat. A pain in the butt sometimes.

[photonsoup]

How are the little number wheels attached inside?

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FullSizeRender-3.jpg


heres a pict of the release button and the notch it engages in the darkslide.http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FullSizeRender.jpgWhen the holder is in the camera the spring back pushes it flush with back of the camera. This disengages the slide so you can pull it out. I haven't used these myself so I cant say how well they do or don't work, but playing with it in my Cambo Ledgend (Which uses a spring from a bear trap, I think) it released every time.

[StoneNYC]

http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FullSizeRender-3.jpg


heres a pict of the release button and the notch it engages in the darkslide.http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/FullSizeRender.jpgWhen the holder is in the camera the spring back pushes it flush with back of the camera. This disengages the slide so you can pull it out. I haven't used these myself so I cant say how well they do or don't work, but playing with it in my Cambo Ledgend (Which uses a spring from a bear trap, I think) it released every time.

I'm less enthused with the release but the numbers are neat, why no one does this in the logical place (the part of the rebate that fans outward) I'll never know.

[NoBob]

I notched electrician's tape using Bryan's method (http://theplumberbryan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0890.mov). Does anybody see an issue with using white tape? I tried black tape first, but found white easier to work with and to notch.

Film slide two and eight:
131554

Each triangular notch = 1

Each square notch = 5