24" aero ektar qustion

[tyler]

I am planning on building my own ulf camera. Ive been hunting for a 24" 610mm aero ektar. Will this lens cover 24x24 at infinity and what would the bellows length need to be? Also what shutter would be compatible with that lens? Most ive found on ebay dont seem big enough.
-Tyler

[jp]

I have an aero tessar of that size. At infinity it will need around 610mm of bellows. It lights up 14x17, haven't tried 24x24. You will not likely find a shutter that big. Investigate guillotine shutters as a simple diy option if using a dark slide or lens cap is too slow.

[Dan Fromm]

Tyler, my USAF data sheets don't contain a 24 inch Aero Ektar so I can't answer your question about coverage from them. But the largest format USAF aerial cameras shot was 9" x 18", diagonal 20", and it seems that's what the 24"/6 Aero Ektar was for. 24 x 24's diagonal is 34". The lens won't cover that.

[Nodda Duma]

I think one of my AE's is the 24"/6. I can try to set up a test and check.

[David R Munson]

Asking as an interested onlooker, any chance someone could provide some photos of these lenses? Are they as huge as I'm imagining?

[Nodda Duma]

Here's a pic of mine

126420

[tyler]

I think one of my AE's is the 24"/6. I can try to set up a test and check.

That would be awesome thanks!

[tyler]

I assume if someone has used this on a 20x24 camera with success then in theory it would cover 24x24 right?

[Tracy Storer]

I assume if someone has used this on a 20x24 camera with success then in theory it would cover 24x24 right?
Not necessarily, 24x24 is bigger than 20x24. I used to have a 600 or 610 f/6 Aero Tessar, I had to remake the front standard of the 20x24 to handle it, low contrast and murky rendition wide open, which happily, is what the client was looking for with full length figure work. I SINCERELY doubt it would have produced results that would satisfy very many near infinity on 20x24.

[tyler]

Yes i know it is. But isnt it an image circle? So if it covers 24" in a 20x24 wouldnt it also cover those 4"? Also you seem to know how i can get in contact with 20x24 studios to purchase some polaroid film.

[Nodda Duma]

Yes i know it is. But isnt it an image circle? So if it covers 24" in a 20x24 wouldnt it also cover those 4"? Also you seem to know how i can get in contact with 20x24 studios to purchase some polaroid film.

Gotta compare the diagonal

sqrt(24^2 + 24^2) = 33.9"

sqrt(20^2 + 24^2) = 31.24"

[Drew Bedo]

Unnnn . . Anyone: .What focal length is ugenerally sed on the Polaroid 20x24 studio cameras?


For your intended purpose, Tyler: Is it absolutely necessary to shoot at infinity? A 20x24 would be a difficult rig to work with outside at a scenic overlook. I would imagine a set-up involving a van or trailer that doesn't need to be dismounted, just an open the door and shoot sort of arrangement.

[goamules]

For really large coverage, I follow one of two rules for non wide angle lens types:

1. Get a lens as big around as your head (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106608-Lenses-as-big-around-as-your-head!).

2. Get a lens that's focal length is at least 10% - 20% longer than the longest edge of the format. (a 12" lens is considered normal for 8x10).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/9615749697_4f13c2826c_z.jpg
1200mm Hermagis

[Tracy Storer]

Drew, the vast majority of our work is done with a 600mm (short normal).
Tyler, www.20x24studio.com, for NY, and of course, www.mammothcamera.com (20x24 West) for me in San Francisco.

I'll reitterate, I don't think the Aero-Ektar will be good for 24x24 for anything remotely near-infinity. Some of them come in massive shutters from the aerial cameras(these shutter housings are something like 9-10" in diameter and the aperture and shutter controls are on the back of the shutter, they were operated via cables in the planes). If you are lucky enough to find one in a smaller mount, you will need a Packard shutter with an opening of 4-5" (the f/6 Aero Tessar I had, had glaass 4" in diameter 24" f/6 = 4" )

[Bernice Loui]

Most aero lenses of this size appeared in a Fairchild K38 leaf shutter. The leaves on these shutters are fast and powerful enough to cut off a finger.
They are HUGE and heavy generally not suitable for used on the typical view camera. Majority of these lenses don't fit or work well on formats larger than 9"x18" which was one of the standard aero formats.


The standard lens on the 20x24 Polaroid camera was a 600mm Fujinon in a Copal# 3 shutter. Alternatives would be 30" or longer process lenses like Artar, Ronar and others. The 19" Dagor (kinda rare) will also cover. Modern would be the Schneider XXL fine art. Other lenses ring back to the days of 20x24 wet plate photography.

Beyond Packard shutters, there were similar shutters used on large process cameras.



Bernice



Drew, the vast majority of our work is done with a 600mm (short normal).
Tyler, www.20x24studio.com, for NY, and of course, www.mammothcamera.com (20x24 West) for me in San Francisco.

I'll reitterate, I don't think the Aero-Ektar will be good for 24x24 for anything remotely near-infinity. Some of them come in massive shutters from the aerial cameras(these shutter housings are something like 9-10" in diameter and the aperture and shutter controls are on the back of the shutter, they were operated via cables in the planes). If you are lucky enough to find one in a smaller mount, you will need a Packard shutter with an opening of 4-5" (the f/6 Aero Tessar I had, had glaass 4" in diameter 24" f/6 = 4" )

[Tracy Storer]

Thanks for elaborating, I hate repeating myself.

Most aero lenses of this size appeared in a Fairchild K38 leaf shutter. The leaves on these shutters are fast and powerful enough to cut off a finger.
They are HUGE and heavy generally not suitable for used on the typical view camera. Majority of these lenses don't fit or work well on formats larger than 9"x18" which was one of the standard aero formats.


The standard lens on the 20x24 Polaroid camera was a 600mm Fujinon in a Copal# 3 shutter. Alternatives would be 30" or longer process lenses like Artar, Ronar and others. The 19" Dagor (kinda rare) will also cover. Modern would be the Schneider XXL fine art. Other lenses ring back to the days of 20x24 wet plate photography.

Beyond Packard shutters, there were similar shutters used on large process cameras.



Bernice

[Drew Bedo]

I have no real expertise in this area; coverage for ulf formats. Today I spoke with some friends who meet for coffee and photo talk and . . .

The consensus was that the largest serial cameras used roll film no larger than 9 inches wide. While I do not actually know . . just thinking it all over, .it would seem to that an Aero-Ektar, of whatever focal length, would not be designed to cover 24x24 inches.

[Dan Fromm]

The consensus was that the largest serial cameras used roll film no larger than 9 inches wide.

USAF's largest formats were 18" x 18" and 18" x 36". I have USAF spec sheets on four lenses for these formats, three with lens' cross-sections. All four made by Perkin-Elmer, the three with cross-sections all heliar types.

9" x 18" was the largest in common use.

[Drew Bedo]

Thanks for that info. So 9x18 . . .I am not clear about what that would mean regarding the coverage of a 24" Aero Ektar.

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks for that info. So 9x18 . . .I am not clear about what that would mean regarding the coverage of a 24" Aero Ektar.

sqrt(9^2 + 18^2) = 20

The lens seems to have been a tessar type. If so, it might have been made for 9x18 but 9x9 is more likely. However, I'm speculating with no solid data to go on.