Best fiber papers available [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Stephen Collector

7-Dec-2014, 11:59

Can anyone suggest a fiber paper. I'm not thrilled with Ilford MC FB. How is the Adox paper? And, not familiar with Arista paper either which I see can be purchased at Freestyle in California.
My goodness, the prices for 16x20 are stunning!!!

Merg Ross

7-Dec-2014, 12:12

[QUOTE=Stephen Collector;1194892]Can anyone suggest a fiber paper. How is the Adox paper? [QUOTE]

Excellent! Works well with Ansco 130.

Jeff Dexheimer

7-Dec-2014, 13:08

I have used the Adox MCC 110 developed in Dektol. Gave me beautiful results. I also love the results I get from ilford paper, so what I consider a great result may differ from you.

Regarding cost, it is really cheap considering you are getting a sheet of fine art paper coated with a variable contrast emulsion. Uncoated inkjet papers can cost as much.

Eric Biggerstaff

7-Dec-2014, 13:16

I am a fan of the Adox as well as the Foma Fomabrom Varient. It all depends on the tone you are looking for. I find the new Ilford Classic to be an excellent paper, much different from the MGFB IV.

Oren Grad

7-Dec-2014, 13:18

I'm not thrilled with Ilford MC FB.

Which Ilford MC FB? Are you aware that MG IV FB was recently replaced by MG FB Classic? Have you tried MG FB Warmtone or MG FB Cooltone?

Stephen Collector

7-Dec-2014, 15:37

Which Ilford MC FB? Are you aware that MG IV FB was recently replaced by MG FB Classic? Have you tried MG FB Warmtone or MG FB Cooltone?

" I have used the Ilford MG warm tone and thought it was good. I was a huge fan of Agfa Portriga and later of Forte's Fortezo Glossy surface. I would also be very content with the old Agfa Brovira today for a cold to neutral toned paper.
I am under the impression that Adox for all intent and purposes is Afga Brovira?

Greg Y

7-Dec-2014, 17:35

Stephen, The simple answer is that nothing today is like those old papers. I still have a small and diminishing stash of Fortezo which I love. The Adox papers are variable contrast, unlike Brovira. They are very workable....but so are all the other handful of currently available papers. For my negatives & choice of developers (Ansco 130 / Amidol / LPD/Compard WA/ BW65) I get better results with Fomabrom Variant 111, & the new Ilford Cooltone. Good luck with your paper quest.

David R Munson

7-Dec-2014, 17:37

Isn't one of the Adox papers a reincarnation of AGFA 111? Because that paper in Ansco 130 was a favorite of mine.

Eric Biggerstaff

7-Dec-2014, 18:10

scheinfluger_77

7-Dec-2014, 20:50

Isn't one of the Adox papers a reincarnation of AGFA 111? Because that paper in Ansco 130 was a favorite of mine.

I doubt anything could be the reincarnation of Afga Brovira. However, the little bit of Foma 131 I've used recently makes me think it has possibilities. Even though it's warm toned the glossy surface on this paper is alluring. Every time I pick up one of the prints I made with this paper for my recent show, I find myself saying "Ooo, nice" it's the 131.

Eric Biggerstaff is right, get a selection of the papers available and try them out, you may be surprised.

Steve

StoneNYC

7-Dec-2014, 21:28

The FOMABROM 123 variable contest paper by FOMA is really nice.

I tried all the ilford papers and all the FOMA papers, and all the Oriental Seagull papers, I only liked the Ilford WT and the FOMABROM 123 variant paper.

I haven't tried the ADOX reincarnation of AGFA papers yet, but wasn't still quite happy so those are next when my darkroom is up and running.

Oren Grad

7-Dec-2014, 22:43

Isn't one of the Adox papers a reincarnation of AGFA 111? Because that paper in Ansco 130 was a favorite of mine.

Yes, Adox MCC (FB) and MCP (RC) are the reincarnations of Agfa MCC and MCP. Based on extensive experience with the Agfa versions and limited experience with the Adox versions, I'd say they did an excellent job in preserving the key attributes of the Agfa papers.

Arne Croell

7-Dec-2014, 23:52

Isn't one of the Adox papers a reincarnation of AGFA 111? Because that paper in Ansco 130 was a favorite of mine.

What Oren said above. Note that just the 3-digit number is not enough to specify an Agfa paper, the three digits only specify the paper thickness and type (FB vs. RC), base tint, and surface type. The emulsion type and grade (if not multigrade) are coded with letters: MCC=Multicontrast Classic, RRN=Record-Rapid Normal (grade), etc.

andreios

8-Dec-2014, 00:57

My favourite paper available fresh is fomatone 532 Nature. The surface is somewhere between foma's lustre 123 and a matte paper.

andreios

8-Dec-2014, 00:59

PS: Also note that foma is silently working on improving their emulsions, recently they've made changes to the 131 and 532 to bring back the excellent lith-ability from a few years ago.

Regular Rod

8-Dec-2014, 01:41

Are there any single grade fibre based double weight papers available these days, preferably chloride or chlorobromide?

RR

baachitraka

8-Dec-2014, 05:54

I like MCC 110 from Adox. Undoubtedly works great with Adox Adotol. Also tested with Moersch Eco 4812(rich blacks) and Easy lith. So, it liths too.

8-Dec-2014, 07:12

RR check out the lodima paper.

For a contemporary paper I would nominate ilford art300 to the list. It has a texture that is stellar for some things and ill suited to others.

Old_Dick

8-Dec-2014, 07:48

My favorite has always been Ilford Ilfobrom Galerie.

David R Munson

8-Dec-2014, 17:50

What Oren said above. Note that just the 3-digit number is not enough to specify an Agfa paper, the three digits only specify the paper thickness and type (FB vs. RC), base tint, and surface type. The emulsion type and grade (if not multigrade) are coded with letters: MCC=Multicontrast Classic, RRN=Record-Rapid Normal (grade), etc.

Learn something new every day! Cool! I believe it would have been the MCC 111. Printed at least a thousand sheets of it in university, made the best prints I've ever made on the stuff.

Regular Rod

9-Dec-2014, 03:08

What Oren said above. Note that just the 3-digit number is not enough to specify an Agfa paper, the three digits only specify the paper thickness and type (FB vs. RC), base tint, and surface type. The emulsion type and grade (if not multigrade) are coded with letters: MCC=Multicontrast Classic, RRN=Record-Rapid Normal (grade), etc.

Is it still possible to obtain RRN?

I don't want any of these variable contrast papers BTW. Fibre Based Chloride or Chlorobromide Grade Normal is all I need...
:)
RR

Greg Y

9-Dec-2014, 07:46

RR, Record Rapid is a thing of the past. For chloride papers....Lodima. Even though you live in England. Check out freestylephoto.biz or b&hphotovideo & you'll get a quick primer of what's left out there in fibre-based papers. Ilford galerie is still available...graded...chloro-bromide.

Regular Rod

10-Dec-2014, 04:52

Stephen Collector

10-Dec-2014, 15:54

Jeff,
Sadly isn't that the truth!!!!

bob carnie

10-Dec-2014, 16:13

IMHO Ilford Warmtone, is the best available paper... followed by Ilford Art 300... followed by the new Classic which is an improvement on MG4.

I have been using IWT from its inception.. I was one of the lucky ones to beta test the paper before it was released ... we tested many emulsions and this one was the winner ..and still is.

Mike Reyburn

10-Dec-2014, 23:21

I just finished testing the two new Ilford FB papers this evening and I am impressed with their quality. I printed a negative from White Sands that printed well on Forte Polygrade V, making straight prints with no filtration (white light). The Cooltone paper is about 2/3 stop faster than the Classic and a whole stop faster than MGIV. The Cooltone print comes closer to matching the Forte V print with light selenium toning. It appears the Cooltone has higher contrast than the classic or MGIV with white light exposure. The Classic displayed more even tones throughout the range especially with separation in the shadows, due to its lower contrast. Both papers seemed to tone well in dilute selenium at about 5 minutes. The classic looses its "greenish" tint in selenium as does the MGIV. I didn't see this trait with the Cooltone paper. The Cooltone print displayed greater highlight separation than the Classic.

I like both papers along with Adox 110 which is a great paper for many subjects. We are very fortunate to have so many choices today.

mathieu Bauwens

11-Dec-2014, 03:53

I've woked a lot with Adox MCC110 but I find the quality is going down now so I switched to Bergger paper.

Kevin J. Kolosky

11-Dec-2014, 08:33

how did you find the quality to be going down in the 110

mathieu Bauwens

12-Dec-2014, 03:02

The corner are more fragile, the back of the paper shows black pattern and lines and I didn't change chemistry or my way to work in my lab.

David R Munson

12-Dec-2014, 05:46

I've woked a lot with Adox MCC110 but I find the quality is going down now so I switched to Bergger paper.

Did I miss something? I thought Bergger was gone. But now I see enlarging papers on the B&H site. Did they go under and come back or am I just imagining it?

Doug Howk

12-Dec-2014, 08:26

For slow chloride papers suitable for contact printing, I like both Lodima and FomaLux
For chloro-bromide graded papers, try Ilford Gallerie and FomaBrom 111.
For bromide graded, I believe Ilford still manufactures Kentmere Bromide

Sal Santamaura

12-Dec-2014, 10:02

Drew Wiley

12-Dec-2014, 10:11

Kentmere graded bromide is pretty namby-pamby compared to even Kentmere Fineprint VC. And Galerie graded doesn't seem to have a hard grade 4. I want to
try the new Classic VC, but last time I walked in the store down the street they were sold out of it. Oh well... in the meantime, I have just enough darkroom time
scheduled over the holidays to do some MGWT printing, which I personally consider to be one of the finest papers of all time. And I'm finishing up a session with
Cooltone VC, which I prefer for mtn scenes etc. I certainly miss the superb premium graded papers like Seagull G (the original version, long gone) and Brilliant
Bromide, and Portriga for warmer subjects. But I can't complain. There are plenty of excellent products available today to take their place.

mathieu Bauwens

13-Dec-2014, 10:26

Hello, the bergger factory still exist and just change his manager, new products will come in a few months; large format films in B&W, paper and maybe chemistry ;
http://bergger.com/fr/index.html

Sal Santamaura

13-Dec-2014, 10:45

Did I miss something? I thought Bergger was gone. But now I see enlarging papers on the B&H site. Did they go under and come back or am I just imagining it?

"Smells like" contract manufacturing by HARMAN.

Hello, the bergger factory still exist and just change his manager, new products will come in a few months; large format films in B&W, paper and maybe chemistry ;
http://bergger.com/fr/index.htmlEven after translating the linked Web site into English, I find no indication that Bergger manufactures anything today. Do you perhaps mean that, unlike when Guilleminot actually coated products, today's Bergger "factory" simply finishes and packages items coated by other entities (e.g. HARMAN) under contract?

mathieu Bauwens

14-Dec-2014, 03:15

I don't know but will ask to Aurélien, the new director.

Bruce Barlow

14-Dec-2014, 04:44

Even after translating the linked Web site into English, I find no indication that Bergger manufactures anything today. Do you perhaps mean that, unlike when Guilleminot actually coated products, today's Bergger "factory" simply finishes and packages items coated by other entities (e.g. HARMAN) under contract?

Guilleminot made Brilliant graded, back in the day, if I recall. Don't we wish someone would resurrect that paper??

Sal Santamaura

14-Dec-2014, 09:50

Guilleminot made Brilliant graded, back in the day, if I recall...Yes, it did.

...Don't we wish someone would resurrect that paper??I do and, apparently, you do, which adds up to "we." So, the answer to your question is "yes!" :D Unfortunately, I'm not sure it could be done without cadmium.

Bruce Barlow

14-Dec-2014, 13:44

Yes, it did.

I do and, apparently, you do, which adds up to "we." So, the answer to your question is "yes!" :D Unfortunately, I'm not sure it could be done without cadmium.

I suspect you're right. Too bad.

Greg Y

14-Dec-2014, 19:46

I remember that Zone VI paper in the black box from the late 80s? early 90s?.....The manufacturer was Guillemot & Boespflug in France & it was beautiful stuff.

Drew Wiley

15-Dec-2014, 11:15

The loss of cadmium "allegedly" spelled the demise of several classic papers, including Portriga, original Seagull G, and perhaps Brilliant.

bob carnie

15-Dec-2014, 12:24

Ektalure and Ilfomar , Cycora come to mind as well.

The loss of cadmium "allegedly" spelled the demise of several classic papers, including Portriga, original Seagull G, and perhaps Brilliant.

Drew Wiley

15-Dec-2014, 17:18

Bob - have you tried any Farmer's reducer yet on Ilford Classic? It works poorly with Cold Tone. In any event, a fair amt of Classic has shown up in town, so I'll test some soon.

bob carnie

16-Dec-2014, 07:15

Not yet.. I have only done a few projects with this paper .. all selenium toned... I am a Warmtone guy, I doubt I will ever try the cool tone paper.

Bob - have you tried any Farmer's reducer yet on Ilford Classic? It works poorly with Cold Tone. In any event, a fair amt of Classic has shown up in town, so I'll test some soon.

Drew Wiley

16-Dec-2014, 10:38

Thanks, Bob. Guess I'll find out soon enough.

Kodachrome25

16-Dec-2014, 13:08

Solution? Make the impact of the image so overwhelmingly good that the paper it's printed on no longer matters, in my opinion anway. I think the Ilford MG is great when I print a great photo on it.

Drew Wiley

16-Dec-2014, 13:53

It matters. It always matters. Some images look good one one kind of paper/dev/toner regimen, some on another. There is no silver bullet that works best for every subject. Yeah, MGIV is a reliable paper, but make side-by-side prints on it and one of the premium offerings, and the difference can often be significant.
Any MGIV (if that is in fact what you were referring to) isn't particularly amenable to toners.

Luis-F-S

21-Dec-2014, 17:29

I think your best bet is to purchase a small amount of several different papers and use them to print the same image, then test for your favorite toner and compare. The best paper is the one that works for you and gets the image you want. There are not that many papers left to try - Adox, Ilford, Foma, Seagull (whoever is making it) and maybe one or two others. Freestyle carries dang near everything that is available.

That would make the most sense, but unfortunately, it requires work in the Darkroom and would keep up away from the computer. Thankfully, I still have Brilliant VCII, Seagull in Grades 2 & 3 & at least 6 boxes of Portriga Rapid G2! L

Sal Santamaura

22-Dec-2014, 08:50

Hello, the bergger factory still exist and just change his manager, new products will come in a few months; large format films in B&W, paper and maybe chemistry ;
http://bergger.com/fr/index.html

Even after translating the linked Web site into English, I find no indication that Bergger manufactures anything today. Do you perhaps mean that, unlike when Guilleminot actually coated products, today's Bergger "factory" simply finishes and packages items coated by other entities (e.g. HARMAN) under contract?

I don't know but will ask to Aurélien, the new director.Any word back from Aurélien yet?

Drew Wiley

22-Dec-2014, 09:30

Had my first session with Ilford Classic VC (FB). It has about the same degree of drydown as Coldtone and MGWT, and bleaches in Farmer's nicely, much better than the cold version. Takes various toners nicely, and as expected, a lot more punch than MGIV. I only got a chance to try it with amidol, but will gradually throw my usual gauntlet of developers at it. I suspect it will do superbly in 130 glycin but don't know about cold MQ's yet, though I suspect they'll come out a bit dektolish. I'll probably keep all three flavors of these Ilford papers in stock in the dkrm, since they each have somewhat different personalities.

Ben Calwell

22-Dec-2014, 11:21

I like the Adox paper, too, but was disappointed that I didn't get a tone change in selenium. I was hoping it would go to an ever so slight "cool purple" tone. I was using selenium 1:20 -- perhaps I need a stronger dilution. My favorite paper of all time was Portriga Rapid.

Drew Wiley

22-Dec-2014, 12:16

Yeah... Adox is not very responsive to toners.

baachitraka

22-Dec-2014, 14:54

Adox MCC or MCP tones really well in Selenium.

Drew Wiley

22-Dec-2014, 15:06

MCC deepens DMax in Selenium, but I think the complaint was in reference to a shift in hue (warm/cool). It isn't very responsive to gold toner either in this respect, although it can be coaxed into split toning with sulfides etc.