Help with Black and white developing...

[babak]

Hello to all

After many years of developing transparencies, I am turning my hand to black and white.
Completely confused by the developing process and would appreciate some advise as to where to start.
I am shooting Tmax 400, 5x4, hoping to use my jobo cpe with the 2500 tank (6 films each go)
I have a bottle of Hc-110 which I hope to use as one shot. ( dilution 1:32???Dilution B from concentrate)
Developing times for N, N+1, N+2???? (N=7 min?)
I understand that there is a lot of trial and error with respect to this bu I just need a starting point, so as not to completely distroy the first few sheets.

For the rest (stop bath, fixer, hypoclearing agent and photoflo I think I should be ok)

I am sure this has been discussed here before but I came up with nothing on the search. Any other advise will be gratefully received.

Thanks
Babak

[vinny]

Google this
site:largeformatphotography.info developing black and white film

[Jim Jones]

Consider tray development for efficient, convenient, and economical development of small quantities of sheet film. The pre-wash, development, and stop can be done in trays and the rest of the processing in a tank.

[Light Guru]

Developing times for N, N+1, N+2???? (N=7 min?)

https://people.goshen.edu/~marvinpb/zone.html

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?12287-Determining-N-2-N-1-N-N-1-etc-development

[babak]

Thanks Viny, Jim and Light guru.
So for N+or- 1 there is 15to 20 percent time difference.
Is the developer concentration of 1:31 correct for one shot? I will be using 250ml to develop 6 Tmax 5x4.
How long should the developing time be for standard development as I will be using the Jobo at setting 1 with continuous rotation.
Anyone developing using this method at the moment?

Babak

[Stoogley]

Babak,
Are you going to scan or wet print for the final images?

I find that scanning is more forgiving on exposure variants.

Ken Lee used to have a great web page for doing a test run, but he seems to have taken that page down.

But to start.
Pick a film. Pick a developer and method.
Setup up a scene of varying blacks to whites.
Take meter readings and shoot some sheets, from indicated exposure to 2-3 stops on either side. And develop for the indicated time.
Evaluate.
That's get you pretty close to a baseline on what your exposure and development time.

As for N, N-1, etc. that will depend on what you do next with your process.

I did this, and scanned my negatives and used the scanning software as a poor man's densitometer. Round two, I was right where I wanted to be.

[babak]

Thanks Stoogley,
I have done as you say, I have picked a film and developer and have shot a few sheets. Now I want to process them and want a starting point so as not to completely destroy the negatives. I think I may have it sorted now though.
I am going to use the solution B, 280mls in my jobo 2500 tank with cpe continuous rotation, for 6 min. We will see how it goes. fingers crossed.

I will be scanning by the way as I dont have a dark room.

Babak

[Jim Noel]

Thanks Viny, Jim and Light guru.
So for N+or- 1 there is 15to 20 percent time difference.
Is the developer concentration of 1:31 correct for one shot? I will be using 250ml to develop 6 Tmax 5x4.
How long should the developing time be for standard development as I will be using the Jobo at setting 1 with continuous rotation.
Anyone developing using this method at the moment?

Babak

I use this method for 4x5.
You are on the right track with a few minor exceptions.
250 ml of HC 110 B is not enough developing agent to fully develop 6 sheets of 4x5. In that tank my suggestion is only process 4 sheets, and use 400 ml of developer. Each sheet needs 100 ml to assure complete and repeatable results. Better too much than too little.
7 minutes at 20 deg C is a good starting point. Get your N time down , then worry about N- and N+.
Set the Jobo to reverse rather than running continuously in one direction.

[ic-racer]

HC110 is not the best developer for a 24 degree process.

[jbenedict]

HC110 is not the best developer for a 24 degree process.

Do tell...

[babak]

Hi Jim,

I read on other threads that 6ml of concentrate will develop 8x10and hence 4 5x4. Therefore for 6 I would need 9ml of concentrate in solution B = 279 ml.
Please correct me if this is incorrect..

Babak

[Stoogley]

Chemistry is the cheapest part of the process.
Too little developer == possibly poor negatives. Too much developer == no adverse affect.

Why possibly risk bad negatives to save $.05 of developer?

There's a lot more invested in getting the film to the developing tank.

IMHO

[Bill Burk]

Chemistry is the cheapest part of the process.
Too little developer == possibly poor negatives. Too much developer == no adverse affect.

Why possibly risk bad negatives to save $.05 of developer?

There's a lot more invested in getting the film to the developing tank.

IMHO

Stoogley,

You're right, it's not good to try developing film without enough stock solution per sheet. The issue is sometimes mechanical.

Sometimes it's tempting to mix the developer to your chosen dilution, and then just fill the tank with it.

But as has been told... When you do that for this tank, you only have enough developer (concentrate) to process 4 sheets, even though the tank holds 8 (or more?).

So the logical, but not-intuitive approach is to only put 4 sheets in the tank and "fill-er up".

Other approaches are to choose a higher-concentration mix from stock (if it fits your esthetic purpose). Extend the time. Live with inconsistent results. And so on.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Ken Lee used to have a great web page for doing a test run, but he seems to have taken that page down.

The one on scanning tips?

[Ken Lee]

Ken Lee used to have a great web page for doing a test run, but he seems to have taken that page down.

I took it down when I became interested in the BTZS method of film testing, exposure and development.

I've restored the article: you can find it here: Testing Black and White Film with the Zone System (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/testing.php).

In the end I have found the BTZS approach more helpful and convenient, but am unable to explain it thoroughly in a single page.

A valuable short-cut I've discovered over the years (using both the Zone System and BTZS) is to find subjects that are already well suited to capture on film. While some people are inspired to shoot subjects whose lighting and tonality require heroic rescue or interpretation, I have learned to search for subjects that are already beautiful and require only competent handling.

[Bill Burk]

I took it down when I became interested in the BTZS method of film testing, exposure and development.

I've restored the article: you can find it here: Testing Black and White Film with the Zone System (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/testing.php).

Ken Lee,

Thanks for restoring a valuable resource! I've always liked your simple approach to testing, and this article is a favorite of mine.

[Stoogley]

Thanks Ken.

I think this is a great "get your toes wet" approach that gets a beginner in the ballpark quickly.



I took it down when I became interested in the BTZS method of film testing, exposure and development.

I've restored the article: you can find it here: Testing Black and White Film with the Zone System (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/testing.php).

In the end I have found the BTZS approach more helpful and convenient, but am unable to explain it thoroughly in a single page.

A valuable short-cut I've discovered over the years (using both the Zone System and BTZS) is to find subjects that are already well suited to capture on film. While some people are inspired to shoot subjects whose lighting and tonality require heroic rescue or interpretation, I have learned to search for subjects that are already beautiful and require only competent handling.

[Lenny Eiger]

I wouldn't use this developer, or this film...

Try something in the ISO 100 range, my favorite is Ilford Delta, and use Xtol or some version of Pyro, for an optimal scanning experience.

Lenny

[Jim Noel]

HC110 is not the best developer for a 24 degree process.

Where did the 24 degrees come from? And why not HC110?

[Jim Noel]

Hi Jim,

I read on other threads that 6ml of concentrate will develop 8x10and hence 4 5x4. Therefore for 6 I would need 9ml of concentrate in solution B = 279 ml.
Please correct me if this is incorrect..

Babak

YOu can read anything on the web. Go to the source and see what the manufacturer suggests. As I said before, too much is far better than too little. I don't know why people attempt to develop with minimal amounts.

[ic-racer]

I think HC110 is a great developer and I don't want to offend anyone that uses it. However, it can be difficult for a novice to use with a Jobo processor. I'm sure all the die-hard HC110 users have worked out these issues, but it might not be so easy for the novice. This is because development times can be too short for good results for the following cumulative reasons.

First, the Jobo CPE can only use heat to keep a constant temperature. For it to be successful, the process temperature needs to be above ambient. Although one can use 20 degrees centigrade as the processing temperature, it would require an ambient temperature around 18. Many people find that temperature too cold for comfortable darkroom work.

Processing at 24 degrees centigrade (with a comfortable ambient temperature of 22 degrees) speeds up development, so a shorter development time (compared to 20 degrees) is required.

Second, rotary process tends to speed up the development process, so a shorter development time (compared to inversion processing) could be required.

Third, rotary processes with times less than 4 minutes can be troubled with un-even development.

Fourth, although HC110 can be diluted to slow its activity, the physical construction of the Jobo necessitates process volumes one liter or less. This limits the degree to which HC110 can be diluted to slow its activity.

Fifth, many people obtain a Jobo to process many sheets at once, so processing one or 2 sheets of film in 700ml of dilute solution can limit the utility of the machine.

Sixth, processing film with less than the required concentrate ( in an attempt to get longer processing times ) can lead to un-even sky in prints or other processing defects which will cause havoc for the novice.

The experienced Jobo user can work around these issues, but a novice without one-on-one assistance, can be confounded by the complexity.

125366

[babak]

Thank you for your imput ic-racer. Very useful.
Babak