Can somebody explain this camera to me?

[jzakko]

Looking to treat myself for my birthday by making the jump from MF to LF. been looking at this camera on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45-Large-Format-4x5-Field-Film-Camera-Very-Rare-japan-perfect-working-94-/271664272717?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3f4073d54d

Is this a good starter camera? This doesn't have a rangefinder, right? How necessary is a rangefinder? I don't really know what focusing on one of these is like, so I don't know the difference. Is that a 90mm lens on it? Is anyone else sketched out that this is a listing that doesn't even bother to include that info? As you can see I am generally lost and any info on this camera and what else I would need to get started with the camera would be greatly appreciated. I'm new to large format and don't know a whole lot about it at the moment.

Thanks

[Jac@stafford.net]

This doesn't have a rangefinder, right? How necessary is a rangefinder?

It is a rangefinder. A rangefinder is very useful for persons who do not use perspective controls. I sometimes use a Linhof Super Technika in that manner.

That said, the camera in question is limited in the lenses it can use with its rangefinder compared to the Super Technika, but that one is priced far below a Super Technika V or later.

If I were looking again, I would consider it. If the rangefinder does not work properly, it is just an oversized LF camera.

Good luck.

[jzakko]

by perspective controls, do you mean tilt/shifting? the rangefinder doesn't accurately focus when tilt/shifting I take it? so do you just take a loupe to the ground glass to focus without a rangefinder? do you know if the camera has good movement? I'm trying to figure what model it is, wista 45 is pretty general.

[Jac@stafford.net]

by perspective controls, do you mean tilt/shifting? the rangefinder doesn't accurately focus when tilt/shifting I take it? so do you just take a loupe to the ground glass to focus without a rangefinder? do you know if the camera has good movement? I'm trying to figure what model it is, wista 45 is pretty general.

The rangefinder does not see shift/tilt. The rangefinder is really for straight-on, no perspective control work.
I cannot comment upon its perspective controls because I have not used one.
.

[Oren Grad]

OUCH!

The camera in the eBay listing that you linked is not a Wista at all, nor is it a 4x5. It is a Horseman 970, which is a 6x9 cm camera that accepts either 2.25x3.25" cut sheet film holders or 120 roll film holders to make 6x7 cm or 6x9 cm pictures. The outfit evidently includes two old-style Horseman rollholders. The lens appears to be a 9 cm Horseman/Topcor lens, which is intended for 120 roll film and produces a view just on the wide side of normal when used for 6x9 cm. This camera cannot use 4x5 film unless you add one of the Horseman 4x5 adapter backs.

I don't know why a Wista instruction manual is included in the kit - it is largely irrelevant as the Horseman 6x9 cm cameras have many design differences compared to the Wista metal 4x5 cameras.

[Alan Gales]

Read this before you buy a camera: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

Welcome to the forum!

[Tin Can]

I have one of those. Real bad choice for a first camera, unless you love that stuff like I do. It is a 970 Horseman just as Oren says.

It is very heavy, it is much more worn than the one I bought in excellent condition from KEH.

It does not have a rotating back for vertical portraits as the newer VHR does.

It is not large format.

If everything IS PERFECT sure, but it is not a beginners camera, nor is it an experts camera. It's odd. I have 2...

[AtlantaTerry]

Have you seen this 4x5 Wista on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0042-EXCELLENT-Wista-45-4x5-technical-large-format-field-film-camera/161459169489?_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123730%26meid%3D1b56a765aaf94fc0a30b1252633c28ca%26pid%3D100167%26prg%3D20140131123730%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D271664272717

[AtlantaTerry]

OUCH!

The camera in the eBay listing that you linked is not a Wista at all, nor is it a 4x5. It is a Horseman 970, which is a 6x9 cm camera that accepts either 2.25x3.25" cut sheet film holders or 120 roll film holders to make 6x7 cm or 6x9 cm pictures. The outfit evidently includes two old-style Horseman rollholders. The lens appears to be a 9 cm Horseman/Topcor lens, which is intended for 120 roll film and produces a view just on the wide side of normal when used for 6x9 cm. This camera cannot use 4x5 film unless you add one of the Horseman 4x5 adapter backs.

I don't know why a Wista instruction manual is included in the kit - it is largely irrelevant as the Horseman 6x9 cm cameras have many design differences compared to the Wista metal 4x5 cameras.
I notified the eBay seller what you said and suggested they cancel the listing.

[arca andy]

I have one of those. Real bad choice for a first camera, unless you love that stuff like I do. It is a 970 Horseman just as Oren says.

It is very heavy, it is much more worn than the one I bought in excellent condition from KEH.

It does not have a rotating back for vertical portraits as the newer VHR does.

It is not large format.

If everything IS PERFECT sure, but it is not a beginners camera, nor is it an experts camera. It's odd. I have 2...

I have often wondered about these cameras...so if not beginners or experts camera who would use it?

[Old-N-Feeble]

Many years ago I had a Horseman 985 VH-R and I loved it. My kit had 65mm, 105mm and 180mm lenses with matching cams but I seldom used the rangefinder. Make absolutely certain you want a rangefinder camera before you buy it because if you never use that feature it just adds bulk and weight.

What images will you be shooting with a 4x5 camera? Where will you be carrying it?

[Regular Rod]

Have you seen this 4x5 Wista on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0042-EXCELLENT-Wista-45-4x5-technical-large-format-field-film-camera/161459169489?_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123730%26meid%3D1b56a765aaf94fc0a30b1252633c28ca%26pid%3D100167%26prg%3D20140131123730%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D271664272717

Now that is more like it!

If you are in the EU you might like to consider an MPP MkVII or MkVIII... Worth a search on eBay.

RR

[jzakko]

ok, I'm reading tutorials on how to focus and I don't fully get it. Is focusing without a rangefinder just a matter of judging it by eye with a loupe? Also what kind of lens would be compatible? Would it mount directly on the camera or is there some kind of other piece I need to buy? Does anybody know the range of movements that it has? What about this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x5-B-J-Press-Burke-James-Complete-Camera-Graflex-With-Rangefinder-Ex-/271655448268?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3f3fed2ecc
It says it's basically identical to a graflex so I guess that means it's limited in movements? Thing is, I know I want a good deal of movements to play around with but I don't know how many different movements there are or what they all do just yet so I don't know how limiting a graflex is. Reading pages explaining that at a glance is a bit confusing but I want to make my purchase soon before the birthday passes so my parents will contribute. Sorry for all the questions.

[jzakko]

also what makes the vx better than the 45d? I found a listing for one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WISTA-VX-4x5-inch-metal-large-format-camera-B-N-840478-/400769867361?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d4fbede61

Also can anybody justify why this wista is 100 less than the other listed one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45D-Large-Format-Field-Film-Camera-bellows-camera-from-japan-/251713245553?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3a9b475171

[Old-N-Feeble]

jzakko... eBay prices will always vary. Some sellers want too much while others ask too little. The Wista in the link in post #14 is missing the focus shade which isn't a big deal if you use a dark cloth but the shade also protects the ground glass when closed. The missing focus shade decreases the camera value.

[Drew Wiley]

In this category I'd rather own a Horseman FA - beautifully made. But the problem with all of these scaled-down technical cameras is that they accommodate lenses only in the mid-wide to slightly longer than normal range. I'd find that pretty frustrating.

[ic-racer]

Read this before buying that Horseman medium format rangefinder/view camera: (postings about that camera are not allowed):
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?116888-LF-Clarification

[Old-N-Feeble]

:rolleyes:

[Dan Fromm]

Hey, there, birthday boy, you'll learn more and more quickly by reading a good book than by asking random questions and getting random answers, some wrong, here. Regulars here recommend two books on view cameras: Steve Simmons' Understanding the View Camera and Leslie Strobel's View Camera Technique. You can buy used copies at reasonable prices through abebooks.com, alibris.com, amazon.com, ...

[Tin Can]

also what makes the vx better than the 45d? I found a listing for one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WISTA-VX-4x5-inch-metal-large-format-camera-B-N-840478-/400769867361?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d4fbede61

Also can anybody justify why this wista is 100 less than the other listed one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45D-Large-Format-Field-Film-Camera-bellows-camera-from-japan-/251713245553?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3a9b475171

Where are you? You may be better off finding local advice and actually looking at cameras. They really are everywhere once you start looking. Most of us have piles of them...:(

[Alan Gales]

also what makes the vx better than the 45d? I found a listing for one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WISTA-VX-4x5-inch-metal-large-format-camera-B-N-840478-/400769867361?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d4fbede61

Also can anybody justify why this wista is 100 less than the other listed one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45D-Large-Format-Field-Film-Camera-bellows-camera-from-japan-/251713245553?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3a9b475171

The VX is a newer camera than the 45D. The VX has front swing and the D does not. I believe later D's had micro focus rear swing like the SP's.

The late model metal Wistas are the VX, SP and RF. There is little information out there on the early models as far as what letter designates which camera. It can get confusing and a lot of Sellers don't know what they have so that's why you see a lot of Wista 45's for sale without a letter designation.


Metal Wista prices are all over the place on Ebay. You really have to know what you are looking at and watch completed sales to get an accurate price of what they are going for.

[Alan Gales]

Hey, there, birthday boy, you'll learn more and more quickly by reading a good book than by asking random questions and getting random answers, some wrong, here. Regulars here recommend two books on view cameras: Steve Simmons' Understanding the View Camera and Leslie Strobel's View Camera Technique. You can buy used copies at reasonable prices through abebooks.com, alibris.com, amazon.com, ...

+1

[djdister]

also what makes the vx better than the 45d? I found a listing for one here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WISTA-VX-4x5-inch-metal-large-format-camera-B-N-840478-/400769867361?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item5d4fbede61

Also can anybody justify why this wista is 100 less than the other listed one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wista-45D-Large-Format-Field-Film-Camera-bellows-camera-from-japan-/251713245553?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3a9b475171

Asking members of this forum to explain why different cameras on ebay are priced differently is like peeing in the pool, you might feel all nice and warm by the response, but in the end you're still in a pool of pee. We can no more explain the vagaries of ebay pricing than any random person off the street.

Do some reading and research, and then ask informed questions.

[Alan Gales]

Read this:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?117599-wista-45-model

[AtlantaTerry]

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

Maybe that is because I told the seller the camera was not a 4x5 and gave him the link to this thread.

[djdister]

This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.

Maybe that is because I told the seller the camera was not a 4x5 and gave him the link to this thread.

I'd consider that a positive result!

[Andrew Plume]

Asking members of this forum to explain why different cameras on ebay are priced differently is like peeing in the pool, you might feel all nice and warm by the response, but in the end you're still in a pool of pee. We can no more explain the vagaries of ebay pricing than any random person off the street.

Do some reading and research, and then ask informed questions.

spot on and very very funny, good stuff

regards

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

Hey, there, birthday boy, you'll learn more and more quickly by reading a good book than by asking random questions and getting random answers, some wrong, here. Regulars here recommend two books on view cameras: Steve Simmons' Understanding the View Camera and Leslie Strobel's View Camera Technique. You can buy used copies at reasonable prices through abebooks.com, alibris.com, amazon.com, ...

.......and as Dan rightly says

I literally 'cut my teeth', LF wise by a combination of reading over and over again many back issues of 'view camera' plus SS's said book - back then we didn't have the worldwide thingy

good luck

andrew

[Drew Wiley]

Ice-Racer: the Horseman FA is a 4x5, not the similar 6x9 tweak. Both have wonderful helical gearing, but like I said, a bit limited, without the extra extension of
the Technika series. I just admire the craftsmanship. None of these "technical" cameras would serve me very well personally. I'm a long lens addict.

[Alan Gales]

Ice-Racer: the Horseman FA is a 4x5, not the similar 6x9 tweak. Both have wonderful helical gearing, but like I said, a bit limited, without the extra extension of
the Technika series. I just admire the craftsmanship. None of these "technical" cameras would serve me very well personally. I'm a long lens addict.

With the Metal Technical Wistas you can add an extension board and a long bellows for longer lenses.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63412-REG/Wista_214550_Extension_Bed_Track_460mm_for.html

[gorsescent]

Hello. If you are looking for Wista 4x5 cameras, I suggest you take a look at those on Yahoo Japan auction. When it comes to Wista view cameras, this is a very good place to buy one for a good price (used camera).

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e155342907#enlargeimg

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g145764787

[Tin Can]

Hello. If you are looking for Wista 4x5 cameras, I suggest you take a look at those on Yahoo Japan auction. When it comes to Wista view cameras, this is a very good place to buy one for a good price (used camera).

http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e155342907#enlargeimg

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g145764787

I tried signing in for Yahoo Japan and it all worked until the verification code was only in Japanese, both written and spoken. So that is out as source for me.

[analoguey]

I tried signing in for Yahoo Japan and it all worked until the verification code was only in Japanese, both written and spoken. So that is out as source for me.
Doesn't Yahoo have a way of signing into one website and then moving to another country site, assigned in?

[Tin Can]

Doesn't Yahoo have a way of signing into one website and then moving to another country site, assigned in?

Don't know, never tried it. Yahoo is a not a friend of mine, but I do have Y**** account just in case. There are too aggressive with their search engine, once they are into a PC hard to eradicate.

[Nissin]

I live in Japan and in the past 2 years I bought a Wista N technical for around $300 & a couple of monorails for $70-85. Wista cameras come up for auction every few days, but I think that you need to have a Yahoo Japan account to bid. However, even if you can register, very few sellers will deal with foreign bidders or are willing to ship overseas. There are a couple of Japanese agents that will handle bids through Yahoo Japan, but I know nothing about their reliability or charges.