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Cor
11-Nov-2014, 06:17
For my lightweight and compact travelling kit I have a Galvin 4*5 plus f/ 6.8 90mm Angulon and a 150 and 210 mm f/9.0 G-Clarons. While the G-Claron perform good in my hands, I start to doubt the Angulon a bit (though the jury is still out, I should run a decent test against my f/8 90mm Super Angulon (MC) )

Anyway the usual supects (Schneider, Rodenstock, Fujinon, Nikkon) have comparable lenses in the 90mm length (I mean compared to the Super Angulon), all of these are bulkier and heavier.

Is there a 90mm lens performing above the 90mm Angulon (yes I know that there is quite some variation between different Angulons) but is less bulkier and heavy, and preferable in the 100-200 euro's range ?

Image circle is less important to me for this application.

Thanks,

Cor

Taija71A
11-Nov-2014, 06:29
____

Nikon Nikkor SW 90mm f/8 Lens.
(*At the 'upper end' of your Price Range).

Weight: 360g.
Image Circle: 235mm.
--
Best regards,

-Tim.
_________

Old-N-Feeble
11-Nov-2014, 07:48
I don't know much about ultralight 90mm lenses. One of the members here likes the Congo Wide Angle but quality was inconsistent so you may have to buy two or three to find a good one. Otherwise, you could buy several examples of the Angulon and test for the best... I understand the later versions were better.

ic-racer
11-Nov-2014, 08:13
The ones I can think of are probably of comparable image quality to the Angulon you already have:
90mm W.A. Optar
100mm f/6.3 WF Ektar

This little Topcor/Horseman is made for 6x9 but, in practical terms, it may cover 4x5 as well as these others. Although only listed as 150mm image circle, it is of modern design and construction and very sharp right up to the edge of the image field with a sharp cutoff at the limit of the image circle. That is in contrast to those older lenses which have more image circle, but get blurry near the edge of the field.

Topcor/Horseman 90mm (6x9 lens) 210g, 6 elements/4 groups. I have used this lens on 4x5.
124926

Bob Salomon
11-Nov-2014, 08:54
Rodenstock 90mm 8.0 Geronar-WA. Much smaller and lighter then the Grandagon-n 4.5 and 6.8, Covered 170mm (85 angle). Came in modern Copal 1 shutter. 58mm filter thread. 41mm total length. 87mm FFL.

Fotoguy20d
11-Nov-2014, 11:34
I think the 100mm Dagor will just cover. There's also the 75mm rectagon.

Michael Graves
11-Nov-2014, 11:50
The 6.8 Angulons have had a checkered history. There have been some spectacular lenses and some spectacular failures. The one I currently own is very good. It gives me a little wiggle room for movements on 4x5...albeit not much. Sharpness and contrast are quite good, and the shutter works well. Therefore, I shall carry it to my grave. (O graves, for those of you with a morbid sense of humor).

The one I have is my fifth version. The first one was great until the shutter died. I sent it to Carol and she said she couldn't fix it. Now THAT'S a rarity! I let her have the old shutter for parts and sold the elements for $30.00. I bought another one off eBay (yes, I know what you're thinking, and I paid the price). The optics were mediocre at best and the shutter didn't work below 1/25 of a second. I bundled it with a Speed Graphic I sold and sent it on it's way. Next I bought one from a forum member. The lens was acceptable and the shutter worked fine, but the focus-lock button refused to engage and i had to use a locking cable release in order to focus. So I put it up on eBay with a description that said the focus lock didn't work and you had to use a locking cable release to focus. I got less for it than I got for the elements of my first one. Found another one (don't remember where that one came from) and it was just like the previous one. Okay image quality...couldn't lock the shutter open to focus. Sold it for a loss. My current one came bundled with a Linhof Technika III, Model V that came with a 135mm 3.5, a 150 5.6 Xenar a 360 Tele-Optar and a pristine 90mm 6.8 that was perfect in every way.

Buy an Optar...they're less stress.

IanG
11-Nov-2014, 12:07
I'd test your Angulon, I bought one ina bout 1988 but was quite disappointed with it and sold it, I tried another about 5 years later I wasn't totally happy but a friend loved it so he had it instead. I'd bought a Grandagon after selling the first one.

I needed a light weight 90mm lens about 7 years,so I bought another 90mm Angulon as it was a bargain price, this one is excellent at f22 prints look similar in quality to the Grandagon.


Rodenstock 90mm 8.0 Geronar-WA. Much smaller and lighter then the Grandagon-n 4.5 and 6.8, Covered 170mm (85 angle). Came in modern Copal 1 shutter. 58mm filter thread. 41mm total length. 87mm FFL.

How common were they (the WA) Bob, I don't remember them being advertised here in the UK, I have the 150mm f6,3 & 210mm f6.8 Geronars and they a great small lenses for backpacking. There are 3 90mm Geronaron WA's on Ebay though at the moment.

Ian

Bob Salomon
11-Nov-2014, 12:41
I'd test your Angulon, I bought one ina bout 1988 but was quite disappointed with it and sold it, I tried another about 5 years later I wasn't totally happy but a friend loved it so he had it instead. I'd bought a Grandagon after selling the first one.

I needed a light weight 90mm lens about 7 years,so I bought another 90mm Angulon as it was a bargain price, this one is excellent at f22 prints look similar in quality to the Grandagon.



How common were they (the WA) Bob, I don't remember them being advertised here in the UK, I have the 150mm f6,3 & 210mm f6.8 Geronars and they a great small lenses for backpacking. There are 3 90mm Geronaron WA's on Ebay though at the moment.

Ian

How common in the UK, don't know. We sold a bunch of them when the Geronar series was available as they were excellent student lenses (which was what they were designed for). An awful lot of US schools bought them with their view cameras.

Steve Goldstein
11-Nov-2014, 13:02
Rodenstock 90mm 8.0 Geronar-WA. Much smaller and lighter then the Grandagon-n 4.5 and 6.8, Covered 170mm (85 angle). Came in modern Copal 1 shutter. 58mm filter thread. 41mm total length. 87mm FFL.

But be aware that this lens is an oddball in that IIRC it requires a Copal 3 mounting hole even though it's (mostly) a Copal 1 shutter.

Luis-F-S
11-Nov-2014, 15:08
Could also try one of the WA Dagors, 3 5/8 & 4 3/8 WA Dagors. L

Dan Fromm
11-Nov-2014, 16:05
Could also try one of the WA Dagors, 3 5/8 & 4 3/8 WA Dagors. L

There's always a joker who thinks we're all rich. Joker, have you priced wide angle Dagors recently?

Shen45
11-Nov-2014, 16:28
I purchased a 90/6.8 Optar/Raptar as a "maybe I'll use it one day because it was a good price" only to discover that it was actually a very good lens. Stopped down between 22-32 it was really sharp corner to corner. Not long after a second one become available at a good price so I got that as well. I offered a friend the better of the two shutter wise and he has been very happy with the results. I think these are quite maligned at times by people who have never owned or used them. As my main 90mm WA I now have a 90/6.8 Rodenstock but can honestly say if the Rodenstock dies the little Optar will instantly see service.

Cor
12-Nov-2014, 01:09
Thanks guys! Lot of new options popping up! Appreciate your feedback: I'll give my 90mm 6.8 Angulon a serious test drive, and in the mean time keep an eye for the suggested lenses..more suggestions are welcome off course

Best,

Cor

Arne Croell
12-Nov-2014, 05:39
The Hugo Meyer Weitwinkel Aristostigmat 100mm f/6.3(coated, post-WWII version) shows up on the used market from time to time and is a usable lens. Both shuttered and barrel versions exist, but the cells are not interchangeable between the two versions. The 105mm f/6.3 Leitmeyr Weitwinkel Anastigmat, usually in a cheaper Prontor shutter, is similar. Then there is also the Cooke VIIb series, there was a 3 1/4" (82mm) and a 4 1/4" (108mm), both f/6.5. The 82mm version might be pushing it for 4x5" coverage. Coated versions of the VIIb exist, but are rather rare and might thus fall into Dan's "joker" department. All of these were double Gauss 4/4 constructions similar to the W.F. Ektars.

Dan Fromm
12-Nov-2014, 07:31
Arne, thanks for reminding us of 4/4 double Gauss wide angle lenses. In addition to the Cooke Ser. VIIb, WW Aristostigmat and WF Ektar that you mentioned and the f/6.8 Raptar/Optar mentioned earlier, B&L, Dallmeyer and Wray made similar lenses. WF Ektars cover 80 degrees, the others' claimed coverage is around 100 degrees.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Berthiot's 90/14 Perigraphe in this discussion. They turn up fairly often on eBay.fr, are usually not very expensive and are always in barrel. Huge coverage. They can be stuffed into an Ilex #3 and, with a little more effort, an Alphax #3.

And then there are the f/9.5 and f/12.5 Wolly Extreme Wide Angles. There's a canard to the effect that these are the f/6.8 WA with limited apertures. Not true.

SergeiR
12-Nov-2014, 08:15
if you don't care about shutter much - look for old brass w-a lenses with rotary iris. Plenty of those around, and they all within your range. Not as bright, though.

john borrelli
12-Nov-2014, 16:40
Someone listed the 90mm rodenstock geronar on Ebay recently and it sold for less than $100.00.

I was going to put a bid on it but became interested in another lens. The Geronar is a more modern multicoated alternative to the Angulon. Learn to love back tilt and leave the shifts for other lenses but that applies to both lenses really. If you want the Angulon, most people recommend the later model Linhof versions. Generally you can find both lenses for between $100.00 and $200.00. Previous comments about the Congo ring true, like the Geronar it is a more modern alternative than an angulon or an ektar, still with limited coverage. Congo's are not real common though. Kerry Thalmann, a lens expert and LFPF contributor was a proponent of the Congo but he was one of a few.

Cor
13-Nov-2014, 01:01
Had this attack of GAs and against my own plan to first test the Angulon thoroughly I got inspired by the suggestion of Ic-racer and bought a nice 90mm f5.6 Topcor from Japan (shipping less prohibitive than from the USA and the customs are usually less stringent on mail from Japan (fingers crossed..;-) ) I now it will just cover 4*5 but on the Galvin with fixed bellows movements with a straight lens board and fixed bellows are marginal anyway.

Thanks again for the interesting discussion and suggestions,

Best,

Cor

IanG
13-Nov-2014, 01:41
A few years ago the late Dean Jones (Razzledog) noticed that the spacing of some of the Compur shutters used for the earlier 90mm f6.8 Angulons was sometimes inconsistent and that this had an effect on quality/sharpness. He mentioned this in a thread on APUG, he re-machined the shutter casings to the correct spacing and found this improved the quality/sharpness of previously poor lenses. At the time he was asking people to measure their lenses.

Ian

jesse
15-Nov-2014, 10:39
W.A. Dagor 3 5/8" f8 is very compact, but not cheap this day.125085
3" f6 Rectagon may be another choice.125086

Cor
24-Nov-2014, 07:47
I'll update my original question with my first results with my newly acquired 90mm f5.6 Topcor Super in a Seiko SLV 0 shutter on a Horseman recessed lens board.

First : this lens has the requirements I wanted: small, lightweight, modern shutter speed range and a pre-view lever (which my 6.8 90mm Angulon does not have, the lever and the speed range I mean) plus quite affordable.

So I shot a test image of a contrasty office building; and I was quite pleased with the sharpness as well as the contrast. I know that the image circle is just enough to cover 4*5 (150mm) so no front movements, but that is ok.

I do see some barrel distortion in the building at one of the corners of the negative. I tried to keep the back and front of the camera as well as the front of the building parallel.

I guess this distortion is understandable size the lens is originally designed for a 6*8 camera. Anyway the lens is intended for my lightweight travel kit, mainly used for landscape and (old) city images, so I see no problems for that purpose based on this first test run. For my "serious" architecture work I use my 90mm SA f8 anyway (mounted on my Linhof Color)

Best,

Cor

Old-N-Feeble
24-Nov-2014, 08:52
Congrats, Cor. Topcor are fine optics.

Cor
24-Nov-2014, 10:30
I'll update my original question with my first results with my newly acquired 90mm f5.6 Topcor Super in a Seiko SLV 0 shutter on a Horseman recessed lens board.

First : this lens has the requirements I wanted: small, lightweight, modern shutter speed range and a pre-view lever (which my 6.8 90mm Angulon does not have, the lever and the speed range I mean) plus quite affordable.

So I shot a test image of a contrasty office building; and I was quite pleased with the sharpness as well as the contrast. I know that the image circle is just enough to cover 4*5 (150mm) so no front movements, but that is ok.

I do see some barrel distortion in the building at one of the corners of the negative. I tried to keep the back and front of the camera as well as the front of the building parallel.

I guess this distortion is understandable size the lens is originally designed for a 6*8 camera. Should read since the lens is originally designed for a 6*8 cm camera, too late to edit the original messageAnyway the lens is intended for my lightweight travel kit, mainly used for landscape and (old) city images, so I see no problems for that purpose based on this first test run. For my "serious" architecture work I use my 90mm SA f8 anyway (mounted on my Linhof Color)

Best,

Cor