Screen Cezanne FT S-5000 Strange lines on C-41 Negatives

[RussPhoto]

Hello Everyone,
I recently acquired Screen Cezanne FT s-5000. Scanner still works fine, the only problem I noticed that I'm getting very strange lines on my C-41 color, 6x6 negatives. Please take a look on attached image (right side) When negative is scanned and shadows are adjusted in Photoshop it's getting pretty visible. No matter in which direction I'm placing negative on the scanner's platen, these lines appear either vertical or horizontal way. It's only happens with C-41 negatives, when I'm scanning E-6 slides or B&W non C-41 I don't see any lines?! I have already cleaned twice scanner interior including mirror and it did not help. I switched scanner bulbs and it's still all the same. Does anybody have an idea what could be cause of that and why it happens only with C-41 color negs? I'm on Mac G4, OS 10.4, Tiger with ColorGenius 2.07, firmware was successfully updated. Will appreciate any input. Thanks so much!

http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r480/kumarb/distagon-60mm-0233cd_zps18dc7756.jpg

[Peter De Smidt]

Are you making sure that the scanner has warmed up for a full 30 minutes before scanning? If you scan the negative as a positive, do you still get lines?

[RussPhoto]

Just did test scan in positive mode after 30 minutes warm up, brought file into Photoshop, invert it, adjust contrast and yes, lines still there.

[Peter De Smidt]

But it's not on any of the other type of film? Are you sure it's not a problem with whoever processes your negatives?

[onnect17]

Russ, try scanning the negatives rotated 90 degrees in case the image is already damaged in the emulsion.

[RussPhoto]

I tried few other labs and they all come the same for C-41. As usual it could be seen in part of the image where the sky is, some sort of weird banding, the way the scanner sensor reacts to emulsion of C-41 neg. Never have seen it on my E-6.

[Corran]

I get similar banding in skies with C-41 on pretty much every scanner I've had, including my Cezanne, usually on higher-density areas. The best way I've found to deal with it is hold back the orange/red densities - ergo, using a warming filter is always helpful, and GND filters when possible.

Your issue seems highly regular though, with repeating strips. Mine only does a few very light bands of orange-ish tint. If I move the negative they stay put. So it's the scanner (new bulbs, clean calibration strip, clean mirror). Personally, I just avoid shooting color negative film with big open skies. I much prefer E-6 anyway, and shoot C-41 for portrait work or other things that have no big skies.

[RussPhoto]

I tried it and lines comes in different direction (horizontal). I even removed the glass tray and did few scans and still I can see them. I checked the mirror inside with flash light - clean, lens is clean as well. May be something sitting on the scanner sensor but I don't know how to get there.

[onnect17]

Good. Now we know the image in the emulsion should be fine. Could you scan the c41 as a positive and check if you see any lines?

[LF_rookie_to_be]

If your Screen scanner uses a CCD assembly that's built similar to the one on my Microtek 9800XL, the sensor is well protected. Could be something on the filter in front of the sensor, but, as Corran noticed, the banding is highly regular, suggesting a deeper problem. On the Microtek, banding disappeared when I cleaned the mirrors, and the dirty lens caused partial yellowing of the entire scan. This looks nothing like any of those issues. Maybe some kind of software malfunction or software/hardware conflict? I get (again, irregular) cyan or red banding on my Scanview drum scanner at some scan settings in ColorQuartet. Do you have a different version of ColorGenius to try?

[RussPhoto]

Thank you for the info Corran. What version of ColorGenius software do you use?
I get similar banding in skies with C-41 on pretty much every scanner I've had, including my Cezanne, usually on higher-density areas. The best way I've found to deal with it is hold back the orange/red densities - ergo, using a warming filter is always helpful, and GND filters when possible.

Your issue seems highly regular though, with repeating strips. Mine only does a few very light bands of orange-ish tint. If I move the negative they stay put. So it's the scanner (new bulbs, clean calibration strip, clean mirror). Personally, I just avoid shooting color negative film with big open skies. I much prefer E-6 anyway, and shoot C-41 for portrait work or other things that have no big skies.

[RussPhoto]

I already did as Peter J. De Smidt suggested and it all the same

Good. Now we know the image in the emulsion should be fine. Could you scan the c41 as a positive and check if you see any lines?

[Corran]

Thank you for the info Corran. What version of ColorGenius software do you use?

2.x now, in OSX, but before that I had 1.something in OS9 and it was the same, with regards to lines in the scan.

[RussPhoto]

The latest software that I can see right now on Screen website is version 2.08 update for Mac OS 10.6 Snow Leopard. Not sure if it could solve the problem but I might get another more powerful G5 workstation in order to try it.
If your Screen scanner uses a CCD assembly that's built similar to the one on my Microtek 9800XL, the sensor is well protected. Could be something on the filter in front of the sensor, but, as Corran noticed, the banding is highly regular, suggesting a deeper problem. On the Microtek, banding disappeared when I cleaned the mirrors, and the dirty lens caused partial yellowing of the entire scan. This looks nothing like any of those issues. Maybe some kind of software malfunction or software/hardware conflict? I get (again, irregular) cyan or red banding on my Scanview drum scanner at some scan settings in ColorQuartet. Do you have a different version of ColorGenius to try?

[onnect17]

I already did as Peter J. De Smidt suggested and it all the same

I am unable to see the image with the orange mask.
Which communications hardware the scanner is using to transfer the image to the host?
Could you post a link to the original tiff?

[RussPhoto]

Here is the image which were scanned in positive mode, rotated at 90 degrees and after that inverted in Photoshop, adjusted to maximum contras (third image) to see the lines. Now they could be seen in horizontal direction. I'm attaching as well image of Adaptec card I'm using with my Mac G4 with 1GB Sdram. As Corran mentioned earlier he had experienced similar problem with C-41 negatives when the image was shot with big open sky.
I am unable to see the image with the orange mask.
Which communications hardware the scanner is using to transfer the image to the host?
Could you post a link to the original tiff?

http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/KumBrah/Album201410182326/org/LF_post/web.jpg

http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/KumBrah/Album201410182326/org/adaptec/web.jpg

[LF_rookie_to_be]

Maybe try it with a 29160N card. Those were made with the 68-pin screw-type connector as well as the 50-pin clip-type connector. I have both types in two G4 Macs and they perform the same with my scanners.

[onnect17]

Did you noticed any difference in spacing between lines when the neg is scanned at half the resolution? I started to think it could be a overheating/power issue. Does the scanner uses a fan to cool the boards? Also, could you verify the boards are clean?

[RussPhoto]

All is clean, fans are working fine. As concerns of stripes when scanning at 90 degrees they still visible on sky but not that much as it was previously. I have a question, may be I need to post it separately. Does anybody use SCSI-FireWire or USB-SCSI adapter on Power Mag G5 or Intel macs?? The latest update of software from Screen for Cezanne is 2.0.8 and it could be install only on Mac OS X 10.6. "Snow Leopard" As far as I know "Snow Leopard" could run only with Intel processors so SCSI card is not compatible with newer Mac systems. Here is some info regarding latest update:

http://www.screen.co.jp/pub/dtp/ColorScope/ColorGeniusEX_V208_FTS5000_Up/CGEX_5000_V208E.htm
Did you noticed any difference in spacing between lines when the neg is scanned at half the resolution? I started to think it could be a overheating/power issue. Does the scanner uses a fan to cool the boards? Also, could you verify the boards are clean?

[RussPhoto]

I'll try, thank you!
Maybe try it with a 29160N card. Those were made with the 68-pin screw-type connector as well as the 50-pin clip-type connector. I have both types in two G4 Macs and they perform the same with my scanners.

[RussPhoto]

Thanks a lot for all your replies everyone!!

[Peter De Smidt]

Any luck?

[RussPhoto]

Not yet, but I just posted new thread
Any luck?