Both film and paper in a Jobo 2850?

[Robert McClure]

Hello everyone!
I have recently purchased a modified F&S 7x17 from Jim Galli in Nevada. Needless to say I am pleased with the camera, grateful for Mr. Galli's kind assistance, and as excited as all get out to begin using my new beast. I have been a 4x5 and 8x10 b&w shooter for a few years and have always tray developed. But trays to accommodate 7x17 are bigger than I have room for and the chemistry required seems excessive. Plus, 16x20 trays will be unwieldy when filled with pounds chemistry. Jim had said to consider the Jobo 2850 drum. (Thanks, Jim!) I will be grateful for responses to a few questisons I have pondered nights awake! Thanks in advance!

1. Will 2850 drum handle film and paper interchangeably? Jobo web site seems to mention only paper use in their drums.

2. Any particular problems using PMK Pyro in these drums?

3. I assume I'll need the matching motorized rotater. (Is it a good assumption that rolling a drum by hand in this film size would introduce problems?)

4. Re paper 7x17. I assume I'll have to cut from larger standard sheets. What is best and from whom?

5. Sandy King had said a vacuum frame was really best. Can I get away with just heavy glass plate (like I did with 4x5 and 8x10) in the case if 7x17?

Again, many thanks!
Robert McClure
Atlanta

[Jeremy Moore]

Robert,
If you have room for a tray large enough, have you thought about brush development?
It would also save on chemistry.

[Robert McClure]

Jeremy, thanks for your reply. I am aware of the brush developing technique, how it tends to yield more even development, and how it economizes on chemistry and therefore weight. Perhaps I am not in possessiuon of enough facts, but the hasseling with big trays, storing, moving, etc. seems like a pain - that is assuming tube developing is all I understand it's cracked up to be. BTW, I submitted the post, went for coffee, and there you were! Many thanks!
Robert

[Nick_3536]

I can't comment on 7x17. Not unless you want to lend it to me-))) But I've used the 2830 [The bottom half of a 2850] for 5x7 film. Worked much better then I had expected. With D-23 for what it's worth. I use the same tank plus the 2840 and 2850 for paper.

The one issue I had was 5x7 film is a touch smaller then 5x7 paper so the ridges in the tank don't hold the film the same way. I thought it might be a problem when loading but the film never moved during processing. I don't think any of the grooves will line up for 7" which makes me think you'll be stuck with one sheet at a time.

Running the 2850 on a motor is complicated by the ridge between the join of the 2830 and the 2870 extension. The two combined form the 2850. When I process paper in the 2850 I need to rest my hands on the rotating drum to keep it balanced. Jobo sells a bigger drum [3063?] that is intended for 20x24 paper. It is one solid piece and might be better balanced on the motor. A Jobo processor might be the best choice for the 2850 if you don't want to keep your hand on it while it rotates.

For paper instead of cutting why not go with wider borders?

Jobo won't recomended film in the drum since it's not designed to handle it. OTOH it seems many of us use them.

[Robert McClure]

Thanks, Nick!
Is the reason Jobo does not suggest processing film in its tubes, do you think, because of possibilities of scratching. I wonder, if you have managed 5x7 adequately, would 7x17 have any inherently greater risk for scratching. Perhaps someone who has actually done 7x17 in a tube could comment. thanks, Nick! And thanks to others in advance for your comments.
Robert

[Bruce Watson]

I suspect, again suspect, that the reason it's not recommended is the likelyhood that the back of the film will stick to the drum. This of course will make it difficult to remove the film from the drum. Anyone actually done it?

[Nick_3536]

I've had paper stick to the drum-( My understanding is scratching is a possible worry but the main worry is the chemicals don't get to the back of the film that well.


http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&selm=1998052901083300.VAA29158%40ladder01.news.aol.com&rnum=2 (http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&selm=1998052901083300.VAA29158%40ladder01.news.aol.com&rnum=2)

That's from the horses mouth.

[Geary Lyons]

Robert,
I would not use PMK in a rotary processing drum. PMK oxidizes too rapidly in rotation. Use ABC+ Pyro, (from PF) or Rollo Pyro. Both are formulated for rotary processing, but do not work well for tray processing.

I use an Expert drum for 4x5. I have used, OSEF, (on someone else's film), a 2830 with ABC+ Pyro. It worked fine. There are, as stated earlier, multiple ribs for the various formats. The ribs let the wash get to the antihalation backing without problem. ABC+ has a 5 minute prewash with 1.5 gr of sodium metaborate per liter of water. In the 2830, the prewash removed most of the backing, as confirmed by the draining color of the wash. May have removed all, though it is hard to tell if some backing remains, to be removed by the developer, due to the oxidation induced darkening of the pyro. I can attest that there is no antihalation left to be removed by the fixer because there is no discoloration of the fixer at this point.

Caveats...the 2830 is a single module. The format I used the drum for was 8x10. For 17" you will need to use the 2830 in combination with a 2870, (I think in "Jobo-ese" a 2850). The tanks join with a compression ring and there may be a higher likelihood of scratching across the back surface. I used a Jobo processor. So, YMMV, in as much as there may be more likelihood of scratching using other rotational methods.

Let us know how you fare!!

Cheers,
Geary

[Jim Galli]

I'll have to throw in with Geary and say PMK is probably the wrong choice. I worked with it for 3 years and finally threw in the towel almost the same day as Sandy King published the formulae for Pyrocat HD. The Catechol developer is far superior. IMHO of course. Never had a sheet in the 2850 come out with any antihalation backing troubles. Every sheet has been evenly developed in Pcat HD. YMMV and other suitable disclaimers. My only film to date has been the Photo Warehouse FP4 generic stuff.

[Robert McClure]

Many thanks Jim Galli, Geary Lyons, Nick, Hogarth Hughes, and Jeremy Moore! You guys are an invaluable source of very specific answers to very specific questions. I love it. Thanks again, guys!
Pax Vobiscum,
Robert McClure