8x10 Tachihara, Deardorff, Shen-Hao

[Ken Lee]

I am weighing the pros and cons of these 8x10 cameras, and would appreciate any insights. I have previously owned a 4x5 Tachihara, and liked most of the features, the finish, and the bright fresnel. i am well aware of the fondness and reverence for Deardorffs, but I am willing to overlook that, with an eye to features instead.

Is it correct to presume that a Deardorf 8x10 will not have a fresnel screen, and/or placing on the camera will be difficult/expensive ? Does anyone have experience with the 8x10 Shen-Hao, and have a link or reference to its specs ? Are there any compelling features that make one of these cameras more useable, easier to set up, or more feature-rich ?

Many thanks !

[Ken Lee]

I should add that I am interested in doing close work as well as general landscape photography, and have a Fujinon 300A and 450C. To get near 1:1 with a 300mm lens, one needs close to 600mm or 24 inches.

From what I have been able to find, the Deardorff bellows draw is 31 inches, which is very substantial. A Tachihara double-extension allows 550mm or 22 inches, which seems a little short. The Tachihara triple-extension allows 840mm or 34 inches, also quite a bit - but is more expensive than a Deardorff. The shenhao web site is really slow: it times out when I try to read it.

Again, many thanks !

[Michael Kadillak]

A Canham 8x10 wooden traditional has 36" of bellows, uses bolts and nuts rather than pitched wooden screws that can come loose and utilizes native hardwoods rather than endangered species. I personally like their fresnel and while no camera is perfect, I find it works pretty damn well. There was a used one on that auction site for $2,600 in like new condition that went unsold yesterday. The other plus is that it is one of the lighter field 8x10's out there. Deardorfs are great cameras, but the ones I have seen for sale are pretty tired and re-furbishment is not an inexpensive proposition unless you do it yourself.

Another less expensive options is the Wehman 8x10. I am sure that someone else will chime in.

Good Luck!

[Ralph Barker]

I have the double-extension Tachihara, and have been quite pleased with it. The downsides, however is the limited bellows draw and limited rear swing. Both of those limitations are solved with the triple-extension model, but at more expense and weight. I've found the double-extension to have plenty of bellows for "normal" use of a 450mm, but obviously not for 1:1 close-ups with that long a lens. It's great for close-ups with my 240mm G-Claron, or even a Nikkor 360T, though.

My sense is that Deardorff prices go up and down. When I bought my Tachi, Deardorffs were at a premium. At that time, a 'Dorff in OK condition was more expensive than the new Tachi double-extension. If one could find a 'Dorff in the same condition as a new Tachi triple, my bet is that you'd be paying more for the 'Dorff. It jist depends on how much value one sees in having a Deardorff, I suppose.

I got through to the Shen-Hao site, so here's the data they show. A little sketchy (no indication if it has a detachable bellows). The only real advantage I see with the Shen-Hao is having both base and axis tilts.

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[Steve Sherman]

Ken,

I myself have been weighing the pro and cons of 8x10. Here are my biased thoughts.

I have owned a 5X7 Deardorff for years, my primary backpacking camera. It is a dream to operate, so well thought out and so smooth in its operation. The widest wide angle you can use, with no need for special bellows. I cannot speak to the new design cameras but can say that the Tachihara is not as well made and does not move as smoothly as a Dorff. The problems you will find with the dorff's are the rear support tracks tend to wear out with the older models, back tends to wooble a bit making critical focus difficult. These new tracks cost $375.00 and another $150.00 or so to install. Occasionally the bed of the camera which is mitred at each corner can seperate. Nothing else really goes wrong with the Dorffs.

The frensel screen comes with trade offs. The reason that it is much brighter is because it focuses all the light coming into the lens to the center of the ground glass. Considerabley darkening the outer parts of the ground glass. This distortion effectively makes focusing outside the center of the GG inaccurate. I once had Jack Deardorff on the phone and asked him if their ground glass was brighter or just my imagination. He said they use the finest glass with the finest means to effect an ecthing of the surface. Also, the grid lines which are usually black on most screens are infact clear "unecthed" glass giving the appearence of a brighter image. Focusing anywhere on an original Dorff glass is accurate with respect to depth of field.

Lastly, in my quest for the lightest backpack possible the 9 lb. Canham is a better choice than the 12 lb. Deardorff. Problem is the Canham will be even more money than an almost new Deardorff. There is an almost new Deardorff for auction now which will probably top out at $1800.00

As far as the latest cameras and all their claims of unlimited movements, in landscape photography you rarely need more than a tiny bit of correction. With closeup work the depth of field takes on a more 50 / 50 ratio than the traditional 33 / 66 where infinity is involved.

All the best, Steve

[Deniz]

I too am a user of a double extension tachihara and i use 480mm lens on it easily but if i had the cash i would go for the triple extension version.
Tachihara sets up in roughly 15seconds, while Canham takes a minute. same as the take down.

I am very pleased with my tachihahra and if you want to go the NEW camera way it is a great looking and performing camera. I beleive Shen-hao is much heavier than both the tachihara and deardorff.

[John Kasaian]

Ken,

I can only comment on the 'dorff.

First---there is not reason why you couldn't put a fresnel on one and it wouldldn't cost any more or be more difficult to install than what it would cost to put a fresnel on any other 8x10.

As to price---if you want a user 'dorff for a reasonable price, you'll have to shop around. I'd say 1200-1600 dollars will get you a decent one. Take care of it and you'll make money on the beast.

The 'dorff is very easy to set up and use. in fact I prefer it to the excellent Kodak Masterview (which is a great camera and you should certainly consider adding that model to your list of 8x10s to consider) but that only shows that terms like "ease of use" are personal judgements. You won't really know if the model you choose is "the one" unless you get to play with it a little first(sort of like picking a new puppy)

For close work with an 8x10 ,dorff, I'd go to a shorter lens like a 9-1/2" Dagor 210mm G-Claron or even my 6-1/2" Wollensak. IMHO, I'd avoid cranking the bellows way out there unless I really have to since it only invites trouble(camera jiggle, bellows factor, ...?)

Good luck!

[Ken Lee]

Ralph - Wonderful. Thanks for the info.

John - Thanks for the tip about using a shorter lens. I also have a Fujinon 240A, which is said to cover 8x10 at infinity. Certainly, at closer distance, it will cover more and better. I hadn't thought about that. I appreciate quick setup, and shy away from too many knobs and levers.

Steve - Thanks for the tip about the GG ! I know the Canham is out there, but have been trying to find something more modestly priced. According to Ralph's info, the Shen Hao is 6 kg, or 13.2 pounds. That makes it lighter than the Tachihara TripleExtension, which is 14 pounds.

Perhaps I ought to compile a table of all this, once I am done - unless there is already one out there.

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

I would be tempted to get the double extension Tachihara and a 210-240 lens that can double as a moderate wide and a macro lens. The 240mm that Ralph uses comes around occasionally at a good price. A 210mm G Claron just went a few days ago for under $50.

[Bob Salomon]

"The frensel screen comes with trade offs. The reason that it is much brighter is because it focuses all the light coming into the lens to the center of the ground glass. Considerabley darkening the outer parts of the ground glass"

No, just the opposite. A properly computed fresnel spreads the light out evenly across the ground glass.

As an aside the Wista 810 does accept a fresnel.

[Jim Galli]

Ken, I seem to have the gene that makes the classic cameras extra enjoyable to me. I have both 5X7 and 8X10 'dorff's and consider them my lifetime companions. VERY easy to use. That said, for the same $ which is where a very late very clean 'dorff will end up ($1850 - $2000) a good friend has the Wehman 8X10 (http://www.wehmancamera.com/camban.html) and I would opt for it in a heart beat. What a slick oufit. And a good 5 pounds lighter than the Deardorff.

[Bill G.]

For MY money, a Tachihara 8x10 Double-Extension camera made the most sense. It was brand new and cost (at least) several hundred dollars less than the competition. I find the camera to be quite sturdy and quick to set up (not to mention being a thing of beauty when sitting on a tripod in the corner of the room).

I use the 8x10 Tachi with a 355 G-Claron, 240 Fujinon-A and 110 Schneider-XL - all mounted on "Technika" boards and used with the 8x10 to 4x5 lensboard adapter. This 3-lens system packs nicely and performs very well.

Regards,

Bill G.

[jesskramer]

I will definately chime in for the Wehman. I got mine this fall and what a great camera. I use the plexiglass ground glass, total weight 8.7 lbs

[Kevin Hicks]

I would like to echo Jim's comments about the Wehman 8x10. I had a Deardorff but found it to be quite wobbly and heavy. I took delivery of my Wehman about a month ago. I have been very pleased with it. The build quality is very nice. It is amazingly light weight. The Wehman is very rigid. It folds up into a tough little package. Bruce Wehman is a true gentleman. He was very pleasant and helpful on the phone.

I am surprised how little mention the Wehman gets on the net. Perhaps there just aren't that many of them out there. If you want a camera to carry out into the real world, the Wehman is a great choice.

[Richard Årlin]

I have a HZX-810IIAT and it has all you could possibly ask for including a detachable bellows.

[Ralph Barker]

Ken - Your SMTP module is rejecting reply e-mails. The Tachi triple is a folder. Same outside dimensions (according to the Tachi spec page on mpex.com) as the double, in fact, just 3 pounds heavier.

[neil poulsen]

RESPONSE FROM ALEX HAWLEY; HE WAS HAVING DIFFICULTY POSTING IT. NEIL

J&C Photo was offering the Shen-Hao just a couple weeks ago but I couldn't find it on their website tonight. You might contact them and see what they say: www.jandcphoto.com.
I've had my Deardorff for a year now. No experience with any other 8x10 so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I have no complaints with it at all. Mine is an older model which I believe had the front swing added. It doesn't have the aluminum tripod plate which would be a good thing to have. I can make one, someday. Running the bellows out to 24 inches is no problem. With the bellows at 12 inches or so, I can operate all the adjustments while I am under the dark cloth.

Lensboards are easily made from wood or whatever works for you. I bought a couple sheets of thin plywood from the hobby store, giving me enough to make a half dozen lensboards. So far, I've made one.

If I were going to buy a new camera, I would give the Wehman first consideration. I looked them over pretty good last year when I was buying and thought to myself "this is how I would build one".

The Kodak Masterviews are first rate, all metal, not wood. They have a unique lensboard though which can't be made unless you are are a savvy machinist. I used to be and wouldn't mind making a couple, but it would take a lot of hand-filing and fitting without CNC machinery. Michael A. Smith had a batch made last year and sells them for around $100. The cameras were not produced for very many years so they are not as available as the Deardorffs.

Good luck with your choice, whatever it may be.