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Yves Gauvreau
28-Nov-2004, 12:01
I bought this film #3412 in 5" roll to experiment with a 4x5 and readed a few of technical papers from Kodak and others and from some folks here and elsewhere. Ansel Adams book "The negative" mention a film with the same name but I presume it's a different beast.





I started testing the film using HC110 with 1:15 dilution from stock for 8.5 minutes as suggested in Ansel Adams book. The first test was to determine speed and found that ISO 12 gave me about zone I with close to 0.1 density. Then I tried to get the proper time for zone VIII. My first result gave me a density around 2.2 so I had to bring down the time to about 4 minutes to get a density of about 1.3.





Obviously, from this data one can see that I could easily get expension to about N+3 or more but my problem would be to get contraction or N minus. It seems bizarre to me that I get these kind of numbers when I see others reporting they use EI around 32 and using HC 110 dilution B or Rodinol for around 4.5 minutes. I also saw some using Pyro with about the same EI and times.





I'd like to be able to shoot this film at the highest possible EI say 32 and be able to do expension of at least 1 or 2 zone but mostly, since I think expension wont be a problem, contraction of a couple zone as well. I'll test also the 2 bath method to get even less contrast later.





I devellop in 8x10 trays at most 2 negs at a time and turn them upside down every 30 sec. and push them down so they don't float on the surface. I use a Gossen Lunapro F with a fiber optique probe for density and exposure measures. I check it against my D70 on spot metering and they seem to agree quite well. I use a very large tray of water at 68 F to provide constant temperature. Lastly, I use only fresh chemicals.





I'd like to know what I did wrong if I did? What if I use HC 110 dilution B for 4.5 minutes as a starting point, could this help raising the effective EI and still provide room for contraction? Should I forget contraction all together and experiment with Pyro and or 2 bath method instead because of the short times involded?



Thanks to you all

Gem Singer
28-Nov-2004, 12:43
Hi Yves,

I am only speculating here, but it sounds like you are dealing with film that fogged either by being long outdated, or having been exposed to warm temperatures for a period of time. Panatomic-X hasn't been available for quite a while. If the film has been improperly stored, it probably is too far past it's prime. In that case, you should just settle for getting a useable image from it. I think you would be wasting your time trying a variety of developers.

Yves Gauvreau
28-Nov-2004, 13:03
Thanks Eugene, I don't think the problem is fog IMHO, the unexposed negatives I used to determine fog level are very clear almost as clear and uniform as a regular acetate and there are no signs that I can see that something is wrong with the emultion. I thought of that, I also tried another develloper and there I got plenty of fog.

John Kasaian
28-Nov-2004, 16:13
Yves,

For aerecon cut into sheets shot at ISO 32 try D-76 5.75 min.@ 70 deg F, HC-110 dilB 3 min @ 70 deg F or Microdol-X 7.75min @ 70 deg F I hope this helps!

Yves Gauvreau
29-Nov-2004, 07:33
Thanks John,

On every paper I saw it says we can have problems below 5 minutes with HC 110 and they also suggest constant agitation.

Assuming I'll get normal devellopment using the numbers for HC 110 , I can't begin to think of N minus process where a single second could represent near a 1% difference.

I'd like to understand why I got these numbers in the first place?

Mark Sampson
29-Nov-2004, 07:39
Aerial films have higher contrast than the standard camera films. 3412 is not at all the same as the old roll-film Panatomic-X; Kodak just recycled the name. Try using HC-110 (or the developer of your choice) at higher dilutions to get a more comfortable (longer) normal development time.

Jim Galli
29-Nov-2004, 07:48
Your short itmes are very consistent with my experience in rollo Pyro. About 3.75 - 4 minutes. It is VERY contrasty film. To the point that I would only consider using it on subjects with limited contrast that I wanted to build. It acts far more like Tech Pan than anything else. Same relative speed (I shoot it at asa 32) and same fine grain. I have set it aside for another day for now but I intend to try it again in Pyrocat 1:1:100 to see if it would behave at perhaps 6 minutes. Other good ideas are any of the old stand-by's for Technical Pan like Kodak Technidol and some of the very simple POTA formulas

Yves Gauvreau
29-Nov-2004, 07:58
Thanks Mark,

I noticed that it was pretty much contrasty also. Does anyone as a density curve or knows about the toe and shoulder of this film? At the Kodak site the curve I saw is density/Lux and it is so small it's very hard to interpolate and convert to zones.

I got 4 minutes at 1:15 from stock HC110 and I thought trying 1:20 with at least 4 ounces of stock solution would you think this will be enough?

Yves Gauvreau
29-Nov-2004, 08:11
Thanks Jim,

That may be a good solution, I mean using it for what it is good at.

Mark Sampson
30-Nov-2004, 12:22
Yves, if you go to the Aerial Imaging section of kodak.com you can download a .pdf file of the technical brochure for 3412 film. You'll soon see that the aerial world is quite different than the ground-based one. You may be able to get results you like from this film, certainly you will never see any grain. But I would try HC-110 at dilution "F" to control the contrast while giving a reasonable development time. At least that's where I would start... you'll be going way "off the map" here, and I suspect, like Mr. Galli, that this film will be best suited to low-contrast subjects and zone system expansions. Good luck!

Bob Salomon
30-Nov-2004, 12:35
Panatomic-X Aerecon II Estar base or Panatomic-X Aerecon II Estar thin base? Recommended developer is D19 or Versamat 885 developer. Film speed is ISO 40.

Bob Salomon
30-Nov-2004, 12:50
Panatomic-X Aerecon II Estar base or Panatomic-X Aerecon II Estar thin base? Recommended developer is D19 or Versamat 885 developer. Film speed is ISO 40.

Kodak's data sheets on these films were M-112 and M-29. M-29 had all the aerial films in it.

Maybe you can still find these sheets.