Focal length preview tool app as composition aid?

[cyrus]

With everyone making and using digital apps applicable to LF photography, let me float an idea for an app: Something that will help me preview a scene by simulating different focal length lenses. This would be used as a composition previewing too, basically.Right now I use a small piece of plastic with a rectangular frame cut out of it, which I hold at various predetermined distances from my face and I look through it in order to determine how a scene will look if I use different focal length lenses, but it seems to me that being able to do this digitally using a cellphone camera would be a great idea esp since you can then really compare the different framings in a single shot simultaneously and maybe see how things look in black and white, etc.

Of course, considering how inept I am with digital things, a much better tool is probably in existence that I have no idea about, right? I suppose a digital camera with a zoom lens can sorta do this but I would figure out how to set a dslr lens focal length to, say, match the view from a 240 mm lens that has a 45degree angle of view on and 8x10 camera, without doing a hell of a lot of math. Instead if I could just take a shot with a cellphone camera, and the app automatically shows the composition with different focal length lenses, that would be useful I think

[BrianShaw]

Well, I don't know who this "everybody" is that you are talking about. It's not you and it's not me either... so it can't be EVERYBODY. :D

I still use my fingers. I use four of them to form a square or rectangle, depending on how I'm visualizing the image. I push my fingers together if using a longer lens, and hold them farther apart when using a wide lens. I'm thinking of having some index marks tattooed on my fingers to make them a more accurate tool. :p

When I'm not being so lazy I also have a couple of those plastic gizmos that have a filter in them that helps visualize both monochromatic color and the image composition. But most of the time I'm too lazy and I think I've only used them 2 or 3 times in the past 30 years. :o

More often than not I just stare into the GG and go from there. :cool:

[Erik Larsen]

Check out viewfinder pro in the App Store. It sounds like what you are describing.

[Kirk Gittings]

except it can't do wide angles wider than the angle of view of the phone lens.

[Erik Larsen]

Kirk is right, it'll only go as wide as your phones camera. On my phone 240mm is as wide on 8x10 and 120mm on 4x5.

[Kirk Gittings]

120 on 4x5 isn't tooooo bad, but 90 would be better.

[cyrus]

Everybody since it seems like everybody except me is way better at digital stuff. �� I had one of the filter gizmos too but lost it, however depending on the gg to test out various focal lengths isn't always practical, nor can zi always remember how to hold my fingers to roughly match various focal lengths at different formats

I will check out viewfinder pro but some aps out there cant handle LF formats.

I'm sure the techno type can figure out a way to get a wider angle of view than the camera lens on a cellphone, perhaps by stitching. My cellphone camera already allows me to stitch multiple shots to create panoramic shots.

[cyrus]

Yes viewfinder pro sounds about right except it only goes up to MF formats, and is an iPhone app so the rest of us uncool folks using windows phones can't use it. But I should have known that someone already thought about this, just wish they could make it for 8x10 formats and nonIphone phones too...

[Erik Larsen]

It works for any format I believe. I use it for 4x5, 8x10 and 4x10. There must be an android equivalent?

[John Berry]

Stick with your analog card and string. Can't be improved on, and no battery to go dead.

[murphy]

I'm still struggling with the analog way, card & string. Any suggestions on dimensions for that. I know Howard Bond teaches that, read about it years ago in an old Photo Tecniques.

[jbenedict]

Card with a hole and a string with knots at the various distances from my face works fine for me.

Good ol' peepsight and wire frame finder works like a gem on the Crown Graphic, too. 'Cept for tele lenses. I don't have any of those, though... ;)

[bigdog]

Anybody ever use something like this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA04D1TE4526&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Lighting+%26+Studio-_-9SIA04D1TE4526

[Vaughn]

Fingers, phone apps, holes in cardboard, etc are probably nice for roughly composing for 'normal' lens applications, but they all fall a little short in actually duplicating the way the longer and shorter focal lengths see and render the image on to the film. Hard to beat the image on the GG for that.

[Jim Noel]

With everyone making and using digital apps applicable to LF photography, let me float an idea for an app: Something that will help me preview a scene by simulating different focal length lenses. This would be used as a composition previewing too, basically.Right now I use a small piece of plastic with a rectangular frame cut out of it, which I hold at various predetermined distances from my face and I look through it in order to determine how a scene will look if I use different focal length lenses, but it seems to me that being able to do this digitally using a cellphone camera would be a great idea esp since you can then really compare the different framings in a single shot simultaneously and maybe see how things look in black and white, etc.

Of course, considering how inept I am with digital things, a much better tool is probably in existence that I have no idea about, right? I suppose a digital camera with a zoom lens can sorta do this but I would figure out how to set a dslr lens focal length to, say, match the view from a 240 mm lens that has a 45degree angle of view on and 8x10 camera, without doing a hell of a lot of math. Instead if I could just take a shot with a cellphone camera, and the app automatically shows the composition with different focal length lenses, that would be useful I think

Save your money. All you need is a piece of mat board and a piece of string.
Cut a hole in the mat board 1/2 the size of your negative. Attach the string to the bottom of it. Tie a knot in the string at 1/2 the focal length of each of your lenses.
To use this device, place the appropriate knot at the tip of your nose. Look through the "viewfinder " and select your image. If you need to move to another knot to get the image you desire, do so. Then put the appropriate lens on the camera and go to work.
If such a viewing card was good for Ansel, it is good enough for me.

[ScottM]

I've been using the Mark II Artist's Viewfinder quite a bit recently. I believe it's the updated version of Viewfinder Pro. It has a wide range of formats and lens selections. Of course you can snap pics with the app, which is great for evaluating the best position/lens combo.
122909

[hoffner]

Save your money. All you need is a piece of mat board and a piece of string.
Cut a hole in the mat board 1/2 the size of your negative. Attach the string to the bottom of it. Tie a knot in the string at 1/2 the focal length of each of your lenses.
To use this device, place the appropriate knot at the tip of your nose. Look through the "viewfinder " and select your image. .

While the idea is old and very well working your advice how to use it is not correct. The knot is to be put under your eye, so that the viewing frame is at the correct distance from the eye. After all, it is not your nose that is looking through the frame, but your eye. And your nose is at least 3-4 cm ahead of your eye - that makes 60-80 mm difference with your focal length in the case you describe. It is surprising to me that such a simple device, almost intuitive in its use, could be used by someone as wrongly as you describe it.

[grzybu]

As I've recently wrote very simple android app to show realtime simulated ortho film look I wonder about adding option to zoom frame to simulate coverage of different lenses.
Don't you think it will be better to allow user to define it's own lens+film field of view value instead of giving many possible film format and focal length choices?
I mean, when user want to add new view angle he can use zoom buttons to match ground glass and app preview and save such settings with his own name.
Then it will be easy to choose user defined view angle and preview the scene?

[chris_4622]

except it can't do wide angles wider than the angle of view of the phone lens.

Mark II Artist's Viewfinder has a wide angle adapter that attaches to the phone.

[Ken Lee]

Simulation apps alone are insufficient: they need to be simulated by yet another app.

Therefore I'm currently working on an app to simulate all the popular apps which simulate what you get when you hold a card or use your hands to simulate what you see on the ground glass or viewfinder - which is of course a simulation of the final print.

The current plan is to simulate all the popular simulation apps across all platforms. Text me if your favorite simulation app isn't supported.

[tgtaylor]

For the past several years I have been carrying a Linhof Universal lens finder which accurately gives the FOV for 4x5 lens from 90mm to 360mm and it's easy to translate to the particular camera format. For example the 240mm setting on the finder is equivalent to 80mm on 35mm, 165mm on 6x7, 240mm of course on 4x5, and 480mm on 8x10. The only drawback is its weight and bulk - especially the latter.

However the other day while getting some Nielsen Frames at a local art store I picked this up: http://www.colorwheelco.com/viewcatcher/ . I haven't been out with it yet but if I can get this to work it will solve the bulk and weight problem with the Linhof finder. It fits easily in the top pocket.

Thomas

[Kodachrome25]

I used viewfinder pro and then Mark-II viewfinder although I am waiting on Lazlo to update it for iPhone 6 which I now use. I find it to be well worth the money and I have saved a *ton* of time in scouting or sizing up a shot when shooting LF. But one of the best parts of using the app is being able to scout a shot for later as it will show the exact gps location that I can return to later.

I find it an amazing tool, I use it a lot.

[sanking]

I used viewfinder pro and then Mark-II viewfinder although I am waiting on Lazlo to update it for iPhone 6 which I now use.
......
I find it an amazing tool, I use it a lot.

I agree, the Mark 11 Viewfinder for iPhone is an amazing tool. Way more versatile than other preview and composition aids I have used in the past like frames with strings and accessory finders.

I don't think of it as a simulator at all, but as a temporary bridge between the image I would like photograph and the specific focal length needed to capture it with a given film or sensor size.

Wish something similar were available for phones and tablets with Android operating system.



Sandy

[Grumium]

Although I'd prefer to have "something" like this App without the need for an electronic device - I always come back using it. Together with other Apps it even helps to simulate the effect of different filters (BW color filtration).

As others have already said - it's a great tool for scouting images without taking the camera with and it really helps finding the perfect spot for setting up the camera/tripod.

148838
Final image here (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?44249-Large-Format-Landscapes&p=1319217&viewfull=1#post1319217).

[Jac@stafford.net]

As others have already said - it's a great tool for scouting images without taking the camera with and it really helps finding the perfect spot for setting up the camera/tripod.

It also reminds you when you make an iPhone image that will not be there when you bring the LF.

[Len Middleton]

What is the advantage of the Mark II over the Viewfinder Pro version?

I did upgrade from the Basic to the Pro version to handle odd formats (8x20 in my case), but have not seen (nor looked thus far) the rational to update to the Mark II.

Can someone provide some insight please...

[Grumium]

It also reminds you when you make an iPhone image that will not be there when you bring the LF.

I know the feeling :-)

[Grumium]

I did upgrade from the Basic to the Pro version to handle odd formats (8x20 in my case), but have not seen (nor looked thus far) the rational to update to the Mark II.

Can someone provide some insight please...

DireStudio states for Viewfinder Pro (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/viewfinder-pro/id362496185): "New iOS devices introduced since 2014 (such as the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus) are not and will not be supported with this app." Thus if you have a new iPhone/iPod/iPad you're forced to update. I upgraded and have never looked back.