Bausch & Lomb Portrait 5x7 f5 / 12 inch

[MrDen]

Do you know this lens Bausch & Lomb Portrait 5x7 f5/12 inch.
I found this (see photo), but i don't know if this is the same as this:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/15-F-4-Petzval-Bausch-and-Lomb-Portrait-Lens-with-adjustable-soft-focus-brass/191297934240?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620075055%26meid%3Dcab6c07379fc4209b7affb9c81af4e0f%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140620075055%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281098415522
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bausch-Lomb-Portrait-12-Inch-f-4-Fast-Portrait-Soft-Focus-Brass-Lens-5x8/351176937008?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620075055%26meid%3Dcab6c07379fc4209b7affb9c81af4e0f%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140620075055%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D281098415522
Why so expensive, and what is the particularity of this lens?
Best regards

122419

[Gundlach]

The two lenses you have links to are faster f4 lenses. One is a longer focal length and covers Whole Plate the other is the same focal length covers 5x8. Neither one of them is worth the prices they are asking. Your lens is a 300-400 USD. The lenses listed are 500-1200.00USD... IF IF someone was needing them. They all are petzval designs. People that shoot wet plate collodion like these lenses for portraiture. They won't bring large sums of money because that are less desirable focal lengths and there is no cult following for B&L by this group.

[MrDen]

Thanks for the answer.
It's not exactly the same lenses.
Does the extra stop worth the money, don't think so.
But this is the same configuration, and i was wondering how you can pass from 400$ to 2500$.
Maybe there is no cult, but obviously this lens worth 400$ right?! And if someday i want to sell it back, i won't loose money here.
I don't know much about brass lenses for the moment, and it will be my first test on this, i don't wanna make shit on this.
Thanks

[djdister]

Thanks for the answer.
It's not exactly the same lenses.
Does the extra stop worth the money, don't think so.
But this is the same configuration, and i was wondering how you can pass from 400$ to 2500$.
Maybe there is no cult, but obviously this lens worth 400$ right?! And if someday i want to sell it back, i won't loose money here.
I don't know much about brass lenses for the moment, and it will be my first test on this, i don't wanna make shit on this.
Thanks

I can guarantee that you will almost always lose money when you want to sell it later, unless you got it for next to nothing.

[Gundlach]

Those lenses WILL NEVER SELL for those prices. A stop faster is a huge difference - go price a modern 300mm f4 vs a 300 f2.8 - If you hold onto your lens long enough you will be able to break even, maybe even profit.

[Jim Galli]

This lens (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Burke-James-8x10-CEPHALOSCOPE-Portrait-Lens-16-inch/160555662729?_trksid=p2047675.c100013.m1986&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620090651%26meid%3D0f31fc3cad0444af9b86f266b8f852df%26pid%3D100013%26prg%3D20140620090651%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D351176937008) was made by Bausch and Lomb. It is worth approximately 1/10th what the guy is asking for it. He's been trying to sell it for about 3 years.

[SergeiR]

Also single stop might mean a lot to someone who is shooting collodion or slow emulsions.
Difference between 8s and 4s is a lot when you taking portrait.

[goamules]

I sold a Baush and Lomb recently for $2,000, but it was a 23", not a 12". The F5 Petzvals are some of the best universal lenses. But the ones listed are the faster F4 ones, with diffusion.

I hear what MrDen is saying, why don't B&L lenses go for more? It's not the speed, an F4 Petzval is the normal speed, give or take .3 of the number. An F4.5 or F5 or F 6 lens works fine with wetplate, and did for 150 years. Those speeds work outside, or under huge skylights as 95% of the portraits were taken from 1852 to 1920 or so. It's the indoor, florescent lighting shooters that need more speed, not the rest of us wetplaters.

On the F4 version in the link, the B&L has excellent glass, like a Dallmeyer A series. The B&L has a hokey diffusion adjuster, like the Dallmeyer. The B&L is the same speed as the Dallmeyer. The B&L has heavy, fancy brasswork and engraving and "looks old."

The main thing that drives price is size and coverage. An F4 10" lens is pretty common. A 14" costs more, and a 16" costs more. But even a Vitax with all the above is usually about $2,000. Hmmmm.....it's a good question, why do B&L F4 Portrait lenses go so cheap? Those two he linked to are way over 2 grand, and out of line. But why are people saying they're a $300 lens? I do, and will, pay more than that for a big one, they're good. Similarly, the F5 B&L and Wollensak are fantastic portrait lenses.

[Jim Galli]

12" f5 is a fine lens. But common. I believe the original demand for these which drives rarity now, went down exponentially as the size went up. So there are 100's of 12" 30's of 14" 10's of 16" and 1's of 18" and above 18" is the threshold for very uncommon now and that drives price. An f4 lens was originally 50 - 60% more in cost and that makes them scarcer too.

Plus, the elephant in the room is that everyone (almost) that wants these things now, wants aberrations. The f5 lenses are too well corrected. f4 is going to swirl. f3.5 and 3.2 is going to be very swirly. And that also drives price. I had a couple of 10" f5 ones to sell last year and had to about give them away.

The early Bausch and Lombs in the big fancy mount like in the pictures had weak apertures. The aperture is made of a phenolic like material and most of them haven't survived. Wollensak is the same in many of the big Vitax. I have a 14" Unar in the big fancy mount - no aperture. If it does have a complete aperture, "go gently, hector."

[goamules]

I know what you mean about the iris and diffusion controls. I move them very slowly, and not much at all, on my Unar. And I agree everyone wants super fast and super short depth of field. I can't remember the calculation, but I believe you need about an F1 on 35mm to get the look of an F3.6 on 8x10. Which is about impossible, so they go large format for that look. You know, where almost nothing is in focus, or the "face coming out of a dark well" look. What I found with wetplate and film, is people move fore and aft after you focus, and if you have a 1" depth of field, your chances of blowing it on a $8 sheet of film are good. I like the F5 Vestas and F6 Dallmeyer D series for that reason - depth of field that gives you some wobble room.

[SergeiR]

.. people move fore and aft after you focus, and if you have a 1" depth of field, your chances of blowing it on a $8 sheet of film are good..

that :)

[Mark Sawyer]

This lens (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Burke-James-8x10-CEPHALOSCOPE-Portrait-Lens-16-inch/160555662729?_trksid=p2047675.c100013.m1986&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140620090651%26meid%3D0f31fc3cad0444af9b86f266b8f852df%26pid%3D100013%26prg%3D20140620090651%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D30%26sd%3D351176937008) was made by Bausch and Lomb. It is worth approximately 1/10th what the guy is asking for it. He's been trying to sell it for about 3 years.

And it's still there four years later...