Mini speed graphic 2x3 questions.

[StoneNYC]

I just received as a gift, my great step uncle's mini split graphic that he brought knew when he was a young man, it's Awesome!

I have a few questions which I've also posted on APUG.

One of which is, do they make some kind of lens board adapter so that I can take this tiny lens board and put it into a normal camera that takes for example a Linhof lens board, without actually having to remove the lens from the board to?

also is this a spring back, or a graph lockback? I'm not sure how to tell the difference as to me at least, all Grafflock backs use some kind of spring, the differences this spring is on the outside versus other ones I've seen that bird on the inside,

So does this mean that my camera will take row film backs?

Pictures...
Front
121912
Image to compare it to a 4x5 holder
121913
Back
121914

does anyone have a spare flash sync adapter?

Anyone have a spare mini speed lensboard so I can add another lens to the kit?

Anyone have a broken one I can harvest the front standard and convert it into an adapter for the aforementioned linhof "receptacle"?

Anyone have any spare film holders?

[vinny]

You need a mini speed graphic to linhof adapter board which probably doesn't exist. I could make you one for a few bucks if you'd like. That looks like a spring back that doesn't allow you to pull off the gg frame to insert thicker than normal holders.

[StoneNYC]

You need a mini speed graphic to linhof adapter board which probably doesn't exist. I could make you one for a few bucks if you'd like. That looks like a spring back that doesn't allow you to pull off the gg frame to insert thicker than normal holders.

Correct, it doesn't come off.

It's pretty tight even with regular holders but they are as thick as normal 4x5 or 8x10 holders so maybe the graflex back is thinner for 2x3 graphmatic?

If I can find a second junker mini speed I can use the front standard and convert that into a linhof style board.

[Cybertrash]

That's a spring back, you'll be able to use roll film holders that can slip in under the ground glass such as the ones from Calumet or the old Adapt-a-roll 620 holders.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

I found a graflok back on fleabay a few years ago, I have it on one of my Baby Speeds. The 2x3 grafmatic holders are out there, you just have to be sure you get straight septa, just like the 4x5 grafmatics. I have some 3/8 birch plywood, i'll probably make another lensboard for this camera. Shouldn't be too hard..

[Drew Bedo]

What a nice heirloom camera1

[Tin Can]

http://paramountcords.com/Bipost.asp

I don't think Grafmatics fit.

The Calumet roll film holder does.

I use NOS wood 2x3 film holders as they are softer and wear down the camera back less.

Check the rangefinder at 1 mile.

But they also made a running change on the infinity stops setting. Newer advice was to not set the stops to infinity so you had some focus adjustment.

It's all here. https://www.graflex.org/

[jbenedict]

Unless you really want to use cut film or are planning to do GG viewing, you can unscrew the spring back insert and use a Graflex roll back. You can use the same screw holes the spring back used to make some sort of clip which would hold the roll film back on. The lever type backs are the best ones. Available in 6x6, 6x9 and 6x7. You wouldn't need a viewfinder mask with 6x9 but you could mask each side of the finder with black electrical tape if you wanted 6x6 or 6x7. 6x7 seems to be a happy medium because you get a bigger negative than 6x6 and more shots than 6x9.

I made one of these useful by putting a 6x7 back on it in the method described and it works great.

[Dan Fromm]

The Calumet roll film holder does.

In 4x5 cameras, yes. In 2x3 cameras, no. Cambo -- the roll holders you think of as Calumets are made by Cambo, badged Calumet. Some are badged Orbit -- makes insertion type roll holders for 4x5 cameras, doesn't make any for 2x3ers.

Why do you and cybertrash think otherwise?

[Tin Can]

Because somewhere I have a 620 Calumet and it sure looked like it would when I last saw it.

OK, let's play it safe.

Does not fit.


I use only standard film holders in these things and never mess with roll film.

So I guess that means I never tried the Calumet.

My bad.



In 4x5 cameras, yes. In 2x3 cameras, no. Cambo -- the roll holders you think of as Calumets are made by Cambo, badged Calumet. Some are badged Orbit -- makes insertion type roll holders for 4x5 cameras, doesn't make any for 2x3ers.

Why do you and cybertrash think otherwise?

[Dan Fromm]

AFAIK there isn't a Calumet roll holder that fits a 2x3 camera. There is, however, the Adapt-A-Roll 620 which was made in sizes to fit 2x3, 3x4 and 4x5 cameras. AARs are superficially similar to the Cambo roll holders you're thinking of. You may be thinking of an AAR.

[Tin Can]

Dan, I know you are an expert on all things 2x3, Macro and experimental lens testing.

I have read twice much of what you have contributed to the online knowledge base on these subjects.

I hope Stone relies on your advice and not mine. I am a Johnny come lately, but I still love the little cameras, so much so, I will not admit, even to myself, how many I own and use...

Have a good time Stone! :)




AFAIK there isn't a Calumet roll holder that fits a 2x3 camera. There is, however, the Adapt-A-Roll 620 which was made in sizes to fit 2x3, 3x4 and 4x5 cameras. AARs are superficially similar to the Cambo roll holders you're thinking of. You may be thinking of an AAR.

[StoneNYC]

Thanks guys, I've owned a cambo 6x7 and still own the cambo 6x12 version, as well as grafmatics all for 4x5.

So I was more than skeptical when you said the cambo would fit (thickness wise) even if the grafmatic didn't, that didn't make sense to me.

Ok I guess it's all traditional holders for me.

There's more than enough film out there, more than I thought there would be.

Thanks!

[Dan Fromm]

Randy, I'm not always right. Please unearth the roll holder you've been talking about and tell us what it is. If I'm mistaken I'd rather know it than persist in error.

Stone, if you want to use roll film with your baby get an Adapt-A-Roll 620 to fit it. They work well and if loaded carefully will give nine frames per roll.

[StoneNYC]

Randy, I'm not always right. Please unearth the roll holder you've been talking about and tell us what it is. If I'm mistaken I'd rather know it than persist in error.

Stone, if you want to use roll film with your baby get an Adapt-A-Roll 620 to fit it. They work well and if loaded carefully will give nine frames per roll.

Oh so it's 6x9?

I kind of like the idea of doing contact prints with this using the sheet film, I think that would be kind of neat to do portraits or something, sort of like (or exactly like) wallet sized.

[Tin Can]

Dan, you are correct more often than I am. I cannot locate that item, but after searching for 30 minutes, I gave up, slept on the idea and concluded what I cannot find is exactly what you recomend. I now believe what I have is a NOS Adapt-A_Roll 620 with box, somewhere buried in my studio. The auctioneer will find it when I am dead.


Randy, I'm not always right. Please unearth the roll holder you've been talking about and tell us what it is. If I'm mistaken I'd rather know it than persist in error.

Stone, if you want to use roll film with your baby get an Adapt-A-Roll 620 to fit it. They work well and if loaded carefully will give nine frames per roll.

[Dan Fromm]

Oh so it's 6x9?

6x9 is a metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25", called 2x3 in the vernacular. 2x3 and 6x9 are different names for the same format.

[Tin Can]

Now we should tell him the real sizes in mm.

Maybe not.


6x9 is a metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25", called 2x3 in the vernacular. 2x3 and 6x9 are different names for the same format.

[al olson]

6x9 is a metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25", called 2x3 in the vernacular. 2x3 and 6x9 are different names for the same format.

Well, . . . not exactly. Both the 2x3 and 6x9 holders have the same outer dimensions. However the film sizes are not the same. I had ordered 2x3 holders from Adorama and they shipped 6x9 holders instead. I had to return them because I couldn't load my 2x3 film. It was a shame because they were very nice Linhof holders.

I can confirm that my 2x3 Grafmatic does not fit into the baby Speed. It does fit into the baby Linhof.

Stone, have you checked out the focal plane shutter? Is it in good working condition?

[Dan Fromm]

Al, did they send you 6.5 x 9 or 6 x 9 holders?

[StoneNYC]

I knew that 6x9=2x3(ish) I was saying I was surprised the 620 roll was 6x9 and not 6x7, that's what I meant.

And yes I know 2.25x3.25 but it's SO HARD to type all that ;)

And I have no idea if it's "accurate" but it functions fine in A, B, C, and D etc, it "fires" etc.

So according to the chart this goes to 1/1000??? I thought only the "super speed graphic" went that fast?

122015

Excuse the (brass?) green.

Clean lens!

122016
122017122018

[Tin Can]

24 possible speeds in FP.

Nice lens and shutter. Point it out the window at something very far away and check RF infinity with GG.

That green is normal, but horrible rot. Lot's of cameras have it.

[StoneNYC]

24 possible speeds in FP.

Nice lens and shutter. Point it out the window at something very far away and check RF infinity with GG.

That green is normal, but horrible rot. Lot's of cameras have it.

Thanks, if the film comes by Friday I'll take it with me on a trip this weekend and test it out, I had to fix the RF already as it wasn't sliding, I think it locks at infinity no?

[gdi]

The Super Speed graphic has no Focal Plane shutter - but the 1/1000 in its Graflex shutter was pretty impressive (and fragile). I have one of these too, I never use it. I think mine has a flash sync for the Ektar lens (I'd have to dig it up to be sure).

I also have an Adapt-A-Roll - it would be great if it did 120 film instead of 620 - the 120 spools don't work well and it ends up being a kludge all way around.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

The Super Speed graphic has no Focal Plane shutter - but the 1/1000 in its Graflex shutter was pretty impressive (and fragile). I have one of these too, I never use it. I think mine has a flash sync for the Ektar lens (I'd have to dig it up to be sure).

I also have an Adapt-A-Roll - it would be great if it did 120 film instead of 620 - the 120 spools don't work well and it ends up being a kludge all way around.

The 620 AAR holders can take a 120 spool in the feed, but need a 620 spool for takeup.

[al olson]

Al, did they send you 6.5 x 9 or 6 x 9 holders?

Could have been 6.5x9. It was over ten years ago that this happened. If I recall, I think 6x9 was what was engraved on the holder, but we have a habit of rounding the fractions. In any event, it was larger than the 2.25x3.25 format so the film would not stay in the holder.

[al olson]

I knew that 6x9=2x3(ish)

. . .

And I have no idea if it's "accurate" but it functions fine in A, B, C, and D etc, it "fires" etc.

So according to the chart this goes to 1/1000??? I thought only the "super speed graphic" went that fast?

122015



Bear in mind, however, that it takes longer than 1/1000 of a second for the narrow slit to travel across the film. This 1/1000 only indicates the duration of exposure at a given point on the film.

If any object is in motion it will be distorted. Reference Lartigue's race car.

[Oren Grad]

I knew that 6x9=2x3(ish) I was saying I was surprised the 620 roll was 6x9 and not 6x7, that's what I meant.

The Linhof Rapid Rollex is a slide-in holder that makes 6x7cm negatives. It comes in both 4x5 and 2x3 versions. The latter turns up occasionally on eBay, nowadays often at non-crazy prices. I have one that I've used with my Horseman VH/VH-R. With slide-ins there's always a chance that there will be some quirk about the camera back and holder shapes that make a particular combination unworkable, so I can't guarantee it would be a good fit. But if you really want to work with rollfilm with this camera, it might be worth keeping an eye out for one.

[Roger Hesketh]

Just checked. A 2x3 Grafmatic will not fit under the spring back of my MSG that has a spring back. I have another one with a Graflok back so their has been no incentive for me to try this before but it does however very nearly fit. I can get the Grafmatic 3/4 of the way in.The springs are held in place by screws which pass through a washer and then through the spring before entering the wood of the back. I reckon if you were to put another washer on the other side of the spring between it and the wood then the ground glass back would be shimmed out sufficiently to allow a Grafmatic to pass under. Has anyone tried this? It would I suspect require the use of longer screws which I do not have to hand now which is why I am asking the question rather than reporting whether it works or not.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Just checked. A 2x3 Grafmatic will not fit under the spring back of my MSG that has a spring back. I have another one with a Graflok back so their has been no incentive for me to try this before but it does however very nearly fit. I can get the Grafmatic 3/4 of the way in.The springs are held in place by screws which pass through a washer and then through the spring before entering the wood of the back. I reckon if you were to put another washer on the other side of the spring between it and the wood then the ground glass back would be shimmed out sufficiently to allow a Grafmatic to pass under. Has anyone tried this? It would I suspect require the use of longer screws which I do not have to hand now which is why I am asking the question rather than reporting whether it works or not.

I used the washer under the spring technique on my Pre-Anny Speed (4x5). I have two MSG's, I found a Graflok back for one and installed it, so I have no need to try it on the spring back. I'm sure it would work, thouogh.
I also have two 2x3 Graflex Model B's and they can take the Grafmatic changer.


Stone, I don't think you should worry about using a flash, just take it out and have fun with it.

m

[StoneNYC]

Bear in mind, however, that it takes longer than 1/1000 of a second for the narrow slit to travel across the film. This 1/1000 only indicates the duration of exposure at a given point on the film.

If any object is in motion it will be distorted. Reference Lartigue's race car.

So you would get sort of the same kind of weird effect as panning with a crappy video camera? Car would be warped/stretched? Interesting, thanks!

[StoneNYC]

I used the washer under the spring technique on my Pre-Anny Speed (4x5). I have two MSG's, I found a Graflok back for one and installed it, so I have no need to try it on the spring back. I'm sure it would work, thouogh.
I also have two 2x3 Graflex Model B's and they can take the Grafmatic changer.


Stone, I don't think you should worry about using a flash, just take it out and have fun with it.

m

Yea I'm not going to use roll film or Grafmatic's, I can feel the tension on those springs, very tight, I think it might break something. I'm fine with standard holders.

And about the flash, I know what you mean but it still would be nice to have a flash, I can't understand why they didn't make any kind of non-bulb flash that actually syncs with these, even something like a 3 stage strobe that had separate firing flash's so that the flash duration would be longer and not have to use bulbs, I don't mind the flash not being "bulb bright" just so long as it covers the entire image.

[Dan Fromm]

Yea I'm not going to use roll film or Grafmatic's, I can feel the tension on those springs, very tight, I think it might break something.

Tell me, pray, which 2x3 cameras A. Tatro Company and its successor made AAR 620s for.

[StoneNYC]

Tell me, pray, which 2x3 cameras A. Tatro Company and its successor made AAR 620s for.

Huh? I wouldn't know, as I said I'm not going to use them. I'll stick to the standard holders, and I don't know what "A. Tatro Company" or what "AAR" are.

[jbenedict]

So you would get sort of the same kind of weird effect as panning with a crappy video camera? Car would be warped/stretched? Interesting, thanks!

Look at some of the earliest newspaper photographs of things like racing cars and locomotives. The wheels look oval instead of round. The wheel is turning fast enough that the bottom of the wheel moves before the shutter can expose the top of the wheel. The rest of the car looked like the top was about a foot out of sync of the bottom. It is one of those effects you can get in photography which might be looked at "flaws" in other forms of art. Similar to panning of a person running, it distorts reality so it's 'better' or at least more interesting.

[djdister]

Look at some of the earliest newspaper photographs of things like racing cars and locomotives. The wheels look oval instead of round. The wheel is turning fast enough that the bottom of the wheel moves before the shutter can expose the top of the wheel. The rest of the car looked like the top was about a foot out of sync of the bottom. It is one of those effects you can get in photography which might be looked at "flaws" in other forms of art. Similar to panning of a person running, it distorts reality so it's 'better' or at least more interesting.

Photograph by Jaques Henri Lartigue (1894-1986)
122060

[StoneNYC]

Noted, that's what I meant by a bad video camera, it scans vertically.

Thanks.

[Bill_1856]

Photograph by Jaques Henri Lartigue (1894-1986)
122060

One of the iconic images of photography was made by a 15 year old kid.

[gdi]

Huh? I wouldn't know, as I said I'm not going to use them. I'll stick to the standard holders, and I don't know what "A. Tatro Company" or what "AAR" are.

What Dan means is that the AAR was made to slide under those tight spring backs - like a film holder.

[StoneNYC]

What Dan means is that the AAR was made to slide under those tight spring backs - like a film holder.

I had to re-read the thread to know what AAR meant.. That's what I meant, I didn't know it was "adapt-a-roll" lol

[gdi]

And about the flash, I know what you mean but it still would be nice to have a flash, I can't understand why they didn't make any kind of non-bulb flash that actually syncs with these, even something like a 3 stage strobe that had separate firing flash's so that the flash duration would be longer and not have to use bulbs, I don't mind the flash not being "bulb bright" just so long as it covers the entire image.

I rigged a Sunpak 120J for use with my Speed Graphic - I mount it on top of the original flash holder and looks quite appropriate with the round reflector.

[StoneNYC]

Ok so.... The film in the holders was blank.

The RF is off, but I can't tell how to adjust it.

122251

The infinity stop seems accurate, but which scale am I supposed to use and how do I read it?

122252

[Tin Can]

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/kalart-adjustment.html

[StoneNYC]

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/kalart-adjustment.html

I can't read that picture well LOL, words confuse me... :(

Thanks for the link but I don't understand what they are talking about.

The scale isn't off, that foot for the RF is off, but I can't tell how it locks onto the slider...

[Tin Can]

All we have is words here.

[Tin Can]

Stone, with all things like this, I always start with the easiest way.

Shoot that camera with the GG and enjoy it.

As time passes you will learn more and one day you will be ready to adjust the RF.

Little by little we learn to walk.

[StoneNYC]

Stone, with all things like this, I always start with the easiest way.

Shoot that camera with the GG and enjoy it.

As time passes you will learn more and one day you will be ready to adjust the RF.

Little by little we learn to walk.

Lol!

I know how to use the GG to shoot, I have an 8x10 for slow work, I want to use this for its intended SPEED...

I don't even really need the focal plane shutter to work if the RF works.

I do wish the focus knobs locked though...

[DrTang]

And about the flash, I know what you mean but it still would be nice to have a flash, I can't understand why they didn't make any kind of non-bulb flash that actually syncs with these

I tried
I tried to find something

best bet was a long special burning flash bulb and a quick FPS speed..and even then the exposures were not uniform I read

so I gave up and had my lenses mounted in shutters and presto-chango - I can sync to studio flash and even my old 283's


I gave it a run.. but.. no luck

[Tin Can]

How about that little lever for locking focus...

oops that only on the bigger ones. My 3x4 and 4x5 Speeders do have a focus lock.


Lol!

I know how to use the GG to shoot, I have an 8x10 for slow work, I want to use this for its intended SPEED...

I don't even really need the focal plane shutter to work if the RF works.

I do wish the focus knobs locked though...

[StoneNYC]

Well the found film is a bust, blank, just age oil marks from seeping film and fingerprints.

But it's loaded with HP5+ now :)