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Ari
12-Sep-2014, 18:43
Ok, so I have a cheap plexiglass GG with clear plastic cover on my 8x10; I'm not too fond of it and I want to replace it.

I prefer something in acrylic, and something much like the Wista 4x5 GG/fresnel, because A) I'm less worried when traveling that it will not break accidentally, B) I find that type of screen to be exceptionally bright and easy-to-use

In the past I have used ecbuyonline for their 8x10 GG, they make a very good GG/fresnel-in-one, but it seems they no longer make that model.

So I've been looking around for other GGs of this type that would fit the Toyo 810M.

I've tried finding an 8x10 Tachihara screen, or Wista screen, but I can't get the dimensions online.

I'm unaware of what other manufacturers are making, be it Chamonix, Shen Hao, Canham, Wisner, anyone; maybe they make high-quality bright GG/fresnel screens?

I'm scared to imagine what an 8x10 Maxwell screen would cost, and I've heard it's a long wait anyway.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; thanks in advance.

Ray Heath
12-Sep-2014, 20:08
Ok, so I have a cheap plexiglass GG with clear plastic cover on my 8x10; I'm not too fond of it and I want to replace it.

I prefer something in acrylic, and something much like the Wista 4x5 GG/fresnel, because A) I'm less worried when traveling that it will not break accidentally, B) I find that type of screen to be exceptionally bright and easy-to-use

In the past I have used ecbuyonline for their 8x10 GG, they make a very good GG/fresnel-in-one, but it seems they no longer make that model.

So I've been looking around for other GGs of this type that would fit the Toyo 810M.

I've tried finding an 8x10 Tachihara screen, or Wista screen, but I can't get the dimensions online.

I'm unaware of what other manufacturers are making, be it Chamonix, Shen Hao, Canham, Wisner, anyone; maybe they make high-quality bright GG/fresnel screens?

I'm scared to imagine what an 8x10 Maxwell screen would cost, and I've heard it's a long wait anyway.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; thanks in advance.

Hmm, Perspex, sandpaper, make your own?

adelorenzo
12-Sep-2014, 22:26
Steve Hopf makes very nice ones, albeit they are glass and not acrylic. I ordered one for my whole plate Toyo and was really happy with it, his prices are fair and service is excellent.

http://www.hopfglass.com/

N Dhananjay
12-Sep-2014, 23:06
The Steve Hopf ground glass is very very nice. The glass is very good quality and he somehow has hit a lovely compromise of brightness and fineness. I have been able to use a stronger loupe since the fineness of the grind does not interfere with the image and my pathetic myopic, astigmatic, presbyopic eye appreciate the difference. Yes, it is glass but i have always been partial to glass since it is more stable and less likely to warp or deform under heat or pressure. I had a poor quality plastic ground glass that actually bowed when i pressed on it with the loupe - granted that taking the poorest example of a class of objects to argue against it is a poor argument but that was the source of my mistrust of plastic ground glass screens, especially in the larger sizes. I am much happier with the glass screen and a GG protector made of plastic or wood.
Cheers, DJ

David Karp
13-Sep-2014, 01:20
I have one of Steve Hopf's borosilicate GFs for my 5x7 reducing back. It is really very nice. He does a nice, very faint grid if you want one. I expect to be ordering a WP sized glass soon. Steve is very responsive too.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 04:48
Hmm, Perspex, sandpaper, make your own?

I did make my own, that's why I need a good one. :)

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 04:50
Steve Hopf makes very nice ones, albeit they are glass and not acrylic. I ordered one for my whole plate Toyo and was really happy with it, his prices are fair and service is excellent.

http://www.hopfglass.com/


The Steve Hopf ground glass is very very nice. The glass is very good quality and he somehow has hit a lovely compromise of brightness and fineness. I have been able to use a stronger loupe since the fineness of the grind does not interfere with the image and my pathetic myopic, astigmatic, presbyopic eye appreciate the difference. Yes, it is glass but i have always been partial to glass since it is more stable and less likely to warp or deform under heat or pressure. I had a poor quality plastic ground glass that actually bowed when i pressed on it with the loupe - granted that taking the poorest example of a class of objects to argue against it is a poor argument but that was the source of my mistrust of plastic ground glass screens, especially in the larger sizes. I am much happier with the glass screen and a GG protector made of plastic or wood.
Cheers, DJ


I have one of Steve Hopf's borosilicate GFs for my 5x7 reducing back. It is really very nice. He does a nice, very faint grid if you want one. I expect to be ordering a WP sized glass soon. Steve is very responsive too.

Guys, thank you. I know about Steve, but I'm not interested in glass this time around.
I am looking for something like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63415-REG/Wista_211242_8x10_Groundglass_Fresnel_Sandwich.html but I cannot get exact dimensions online.

Sal Santamaura
13-Sep-2014, 08:02
...I'm scared to imagine what an 8x10 Maxwell screen would cost, and I've heard it's a long wait anyway...


...I am looking for something like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63415-REG/Wista_211242_8x10_Groundglass_Fresnel_Sandwich.html...Bill Maxwell doesn't offer a combined focus screen / fresnel larger than 5x7. In his opinion, there's no way such a product could maintain sufficient dimensional accuracy, even with the stiffening clear glass cover sheet he considers an integral part of his 5x7 and smaller Hi-Lux combination screen systems.

For 8x10, Bill supplies only a plain fresnel, which must be combined with an actual ground glass screen. That's what I have in my 8x10, as well as a cut down version in my whole plate camera. In both cases, I've placed Bill's fresnel on my eye side of Satin Snow glass. Should one desire the fresnel on the other (camera lens) side of the glass, it's necessary to mill the back's ledge so focus ends up where film will be. Since I'm more than 6 diopters nearsighted, I don't need a loupe -- just peering over my spectacles provides sufficient "magnification" -- and don't worry about scratching the acrylic fresnel.

Tin Can
13-Sep-2014, 08:59
Ah, another -6 diopter who does not see the need for a loupe.

I wondered if I was the only one.


Bill Maxwell doesn't offer a combined focus screen / fresnel larger than 5x7. In his opinion, there's no way such a product could maintain sufficient dimensional accuracy, even with the stiffening clear glass cover sheet he considers an integral part of his 5x7 and smaller Hi-Lux combination screen systems.

For 8x10, Bill supplies only a plain fresnel, which must be combined with an actual ground glass screen. That's what I have in my 8x10, as well as a cut down version in my whole plate camera. In both cases, I've placed Bill's fresnel on my eye side of Satin Snow glass. Should one desire the fresnel on the other (camera lens) side of the glass, it's necessary to mill the back's ledge so focus ends up where film will be. Since I'm more than 6 diopters nearsighted, I don't need a loupe -- just peering over my spectacles provides sufficient "magnification" -- and don't worry about scratching the acrylic fresnel.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 09:20
I have a Tachihara set in a box at home. I will try to remember to get the dimensions for you tonight after work.

Thank you, Greg; I've also looked online, but can't find anybody who sells the Tachihara screen alone.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 09:23
Bill Maxwell doesn't offer a combined focus screen / fresnel larger than 5x7. In his opinion, there's no way such a product could maintain sufficient dimensional accuracy, even with the stiffening clear glass cover sheet he considers an integral part of his 5x7 and smaller Hi-Lux combination screen systems.

For 8x10, Bill supplies only a plain fresnel, which must be combined with an actual ground glass screen. That's what I have in my 8x10, as well as a cut down version in my whole plate camera. In both cases, I've placed Bill's fresnel on my eye side of Satin Snow glass. Should one desire the fresnel on the other (camera lens) side of the glass, it's necessary to mill the back's ledge so focus ends up where film will be. Since I'm more than 6 diopters nearsighted, I don't need a loupe -- just peering over my spectacles provides sufficient "magnification" -- and don't worry about scratching the acrylic fresnel.

Thank you for the information, Sal; I'm kind of relieved that Mr Maxwell does not make what I want.
If you've ever used the Wista screen in the RF, VX or SP, I want that, but in 8x10.
I think Tachihara makes the same screen, possibly Cambo; not enough details online to know which is which and which will fit.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 11:08
I just spoke to Jeff at Badger, and the Tachihara screens are no longer available.
Those of you who own one now have collectors' items. :)

Sal Santamaura
13-Sep-2014, 12:33
Thank you for the information, Sal...You're most welcome.


...If you've ever used the Wista screen in the...VX...I have.


...I want that, but in 8x10...The Wista 810DX specifications


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63362-REG/Wista_218105_810DX_Cherry_8x10_Double.html


say it includes a "Bright Fresnel focusing screen with grid-line glass overlay." You probably ought to contact Bob Salomon and ask that he provide you the exact screen dimensions as well as a price for it (as a replacement part).

Peter De Smidt
13-Sep-2014, 12:57
Didn't Bruce Wehman supply 8x10 plastic screens? He might have a lead if you drop him a note.

vinny
13-Sep-2014, 13:20
Didn't Bruce Wehman supply 8x10 plastic screens? He might have a lead if you drop him a note.
yes, he did. It seemed like it may have been a peel & stick film which was applied to the plexiglass. I could be wrong. I've seen some very suitable window frosting material at work which seemed fine enough for this purpose but never followed up on it.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 15:46
You're most welcome.

I have.

The Wista 810DX specifications


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63362-REG/Wista_218105_810DX_Cherry_8x10_Double.html


say it includes a "Bright Fresnel focusing screen with grid-line glass overlay." You probably ought to contact Bob Salomon and ask that he provide you the exact screen dimensions as well as a price for it (as a replacement part).

Thank you, Sal, a very good suggestion; I'll do that.

Ari
13-Sep-2014, 15:47
Didn't Bruce Wehman supply 8x10 plastic screens? He might have a lead if you drop him a note.


yes, he did. It seemed like it may have been a peel & stick film which was applied to the plexiglass. I could be wrong. I've seen some very suitable window frosting material at work which seemed fine enough for this purpose but never followed up on it.

Thank you both, I will follow up on that; I did find some contact information online, but no specific details pertaining to GGs.

FWIW, since I know Vinny (and some others among you) is a customer of Rudy's bellows services, Rudy contacted me this afternoon regarding their acrylic GG.
He says that the company that made them before is making them again, but have yet to deliver promised stock.
As soon as he has delivery of the GGs, he will list them in his eBay store.

StoneNYC
14-Sep-2014, 10:27
I don't understand, why don't you just call B&H directly, and ask them to measure it for you?

Ari
14-Sep-2014, 10:42
I don't understand, why don't you just call B&H directly, and ask them to measure it for you?

They don't keep them in stock and it's a non-returnable item selling for almost $300.

StoneNYC
14-Sep-2014, 18:30
They don't keep them in stock and it's a non-returnable item selling for almost $300.

That's a shame, wish they could measure it.

Ari
14-Sep-2014, 18:37
Well, maybe someone here uses that screen in their 8x10 Wista, and can measure it?

Ari
15-Sep-2014, 10:48
Wista screen measures 252mm x 201mm; a little too narrow for the Toyo 810M.
It would sit just at the edges of the Toyo's frame, too close for my comfort, with 1mm (perhaps) to spare on the Toyo.

Hopefully, Rudy will have the GG/fresnel screens available again/soon.

Ari
18-Sep-2014, 05:22
For those who are interested, the eBay GG/fresnel is again available.
I received an email from Rudy this morning, and he now has them in stock.
I have used them before, on both 4x5 and 8x10, and I quite like them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271610309289?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D271610309289%26_rdc%3D1

Peter De Smidt
18-Sep-2014, 06:49
Thanks for the update. I might pick one up for my 8x10.

David Karp
18-Sep-2014, 07:49
Hi Ari,

Are these made so you don't have to worry about shimming or anything to make sure that the focus point is proper?

Ari
18-Sep-2014, 08:16
Hi David,
The cameras I've used had a slot in which you could simply drop the GG (Toyo 4x5 & 8x10), no shimming required.
The Linhof has its own shims, and I simply replaced the Linhof screen with the Yanke screen; again, no additional shimming needed.
This is a one-piece GG/fresnel, and it has always worked and focused properly the times I've installed it.
I usually will specify the exact dimensions to Rudy at the time of purchase, and so far it's been good to deal with him.

David Karp
18-Sep-2014, 16:14
Thanks Ari. I might talk to him about a Whole Plate sized combo.

Sal Santamaura
1-Oct-2014, 15:09
For those who are interested, the eBay GG/fresnel is again available...I have used them before, on both 4x5 and 8x10, and I quite like them...Does a clear cover glass come with the 8x10 version? If not, in your experience, is one required? Thanks in advance.

Ari
1-Oct-2014, 16:12
Does a clear cover glass come with the 8x10 version? If not, in your experience, is one required? Thanks in advance.

Yes, it does, and it helps a lot, too.

adelorenzo
1-Oct-2014, 20:49
Ari how does the eBay glass compare to the stock glass that came on your 810M? Is it enough of a difference to make it worth upgrading?

Ari
2-Oct-2014, 05:53
Anthony,

Is it worth it? I accidentally broke my Toyo screen when cleaning it, so I thought I'd try the Yanke on the Toyo.
In the past, I've been impressed with the overall brightness of the Yanke, though it is more difficult to use with wide lenses.

The Toyo stock glass is very good for focusing with a high-powered loupe, 8x or 10x, as it is very fine-grained. But it has a dark aerial view.
The Yanke screen is grainier, but I like it for aerial viewing, it is brighter than the stock Toyo screen.
The trade-off is that it is grainier when using 8x or 10x loupe.
If you end up ordering one, make sure to measure the Toyo screen precisely; the Yanke screen is very thin and flexes, so it must seat properly in the back's grooves.
The thicker plain acrylic sheet goes over that to give it rigidity.

I'm waiting on a screen now; if any one is interested, I will post a video of the installation.

Sal Santamaura
2-Oct-2014, 08:46
Does a clear cover glass come with the 8x10 version? If not, in your experience, is one required? Thanks in advance.


Yes, it does, and it helps a lot, too.What does it help with? :D


...The thicker plain acrylic sheet goes over that to give it rigidity...So the cover sheet is acrylic rather than glass? Also, does it have a grid like the eBay listing shows or is it really plain? Thanks again.

Ari
2-Oct-2014, 09:30
Sal, the clear overlay (yes, acrylic) helps reduce any hot spots if you were to use the GG alone, and it allows you to press a loupe against the screen.
The GG/fresnel is very thin.

The GG/fresnel screen is gridded, the acrylic overlay is plain.

Ari
15-Oct-2014, 11:51
Since a few people had questions:

My GG arrived today from Rudy at ecbuyonline on eBay; it includes a gridded piece of acrylic (very thin) and thicker piece of clear acrylic.

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r790/Ari4000/P1030110_zps495dba67.jpg (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/Ari4000/media/P1030110_zps495dba67.jpg.html)

The photo below shows what I previously had on my camera, a plain acrylic GG/fresnel that was pretty good as well. The only gripe I had about it was focusing a 10x loupe: not impossible, but it took some time to get it right, and the image (under the loupe) did not "snap" into focus the way the eBay screen does.

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r790/Ari4000/P1030111_zpsb7d64331.jpg (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/Ari4000/media/P1030111_zpsb7d64331.jpg.html)

Ari
15-Oct-2014, 11:54
First I installed the thin GG/fresnel, matte side facing the lens.

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r790/Ari4000/P1030112_zps3973f74e.jpg (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/Ari4000/media/P1030112_zps3973f74e.jpg.html)

Then I placed the clear acrylic on top of that.

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r790/Ari4000/P1030113_zpsd4df79a3.jpg (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/Ari4000/media/P1030113_zpsd4df79a3.jpg.html)
http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r790/Ari4000/P1030114_zps789f2b2a.jpg (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/Ari4000/media/P1030114_zps789f2b2a.jpg.html)

The result is a bright screen that is easy to focus with 8x or 10x loupes AND gives a good aerial image, but less so with very wide lenses like a 150.

axs810
16-Oct-2014, 08:44
Ari - I've seen a few ground glass + fresnel deals on eBay, and when I ask the seller they always mention two options. 1) Ground glass and fresnel as one piece or 2) Ground glass and fresnel as a two piece combo (like what you received)

Which would you recommend for durability and brightness? I have a regular glass ground glass in my Cambo right now but would love an acrylic GG/Fresnel some day for those travel accident moments...I'd rather scratch acrylic than accidently break the GG. Oh and when you ordered your GG/Fresnel from Rudy at ecbuyonline did you have to measure the thickness of your current ground glass? I'm worried about buying a GG/Fresnel on eBay, and having the image be out of focus because misalignment in the GG and also being out $200.

Ari
16-Oct-2014, 09:13
Hi Eric,

So far, I'd recommend the GG/fresnel in one from Rudy, the screen I show above.

I just measured the area where the GG fits and sent that off to Rudy. I didn't measure thickness, my camera can accommodate different thicknesses of GGs.
The GG always rests in the same spot facing the lens, so thickness is a non-issue.
I like the acrylic because it is harder to break, and this screen is bright.

Rudy has an excellent return policy; I had to return my first screen because it wasn't sized properly.
A replacement was sent the same day, even before I had return-shipped the first GG.
So, if you don't like it, send it back within the allotted time frame.

cowanw
16-Oct-2014, 09:14
I bought Ari's Tachihara combo and have learned a couple of things.
I think you will find the GG and the Fresnel are on the same piece of Acrylic and the other piece is a cover sheet; so two piece really just means a cover sheet with the business end of it. Get a one piece and put your own cover on it and you have a two sheet. Indeed, I expect, the Acrylic cover sheet will need to be replaced with the frequency that you mess it up with touching it when focussing and during moving about. I think a glass cover sheet is an improvement, but then you are back to breakage.
The thickness of these GG's does not impact on the issue of misalignment of the GG as long as the GG is closest to the lens (assuming your camera is like that). Where the thickness does impact is setting into the space in YOUR back and the depth of the Screws holding your clips in and the nature of the springiness of your clips.
For example, my Deardorff has 5/16 inch screws and the spring clips are compressed flatter with a Glass GG and cheap page reader Fresnel combo.
The Tachihara combo is very slightly less thick. Neither of these would fit into my Cambo unless I get longer screws; even then it is not an ideal fit, too thick.
I was confused by Ari's mention of an aerial image until I realized the little circle in the centre of the Tachihara and other Acrylic GG/Fresnel combo's is a little rangefinder.
Lastly the Acrylic GG/Fresnel combo did not have any visible Fresnel lines, either eyeballing the focus or using the loupe.
On the other hand, the brightness of the combo was not better than my hand ground glass GG and "Art Minds Page Magnifier from Michael's Craft Store"
We will see what Ari says.

He says as he is typing and Ari is sending.

Tin Can
16-Oct-2014, 09:39
Ari. Is this a GG update thread or solely your plastic replacement thread?

You seem to reject all talk of glass.

Just curious, as I would like to discuss all types of GG.

axs810
16-Oct-2014, 10:47
Cool, thanks for the clarification Ari!

Ps- you're new ground glass set up looks like a joy to use!

Ari
16-Oct-2014, 11:14
I bought Ari's Tachihara combo and have learned a couple of things.
I think you will find the GG and the Fresnel are on the same piece of Acrylic and the other piece is a cover sheet; so two piece really just means a cover sheet with the business end of it. Get a one piece and put your own cover on it and you have a two sheet. Indeed, I expect, the Acrylic cover sheet will need to be replaced with the frequency that you mess it up with touching it when focussing and during moving about. I think a glass cover sheet is an improvement, but then you are back to breakage.
The thickness of these GG's does not impact on the issue of misalignment of the GG as long as the GG is closest to the lens (assuming your camera is like that). Where the thickness does impact is setting into the space in YOUR back and the depth of the Screws holding your clips in and the nature of the springiness of your clips.
For example, my Deardorff has 5/16 inch screws and the spring clips are compressed flatter with a Glass GG and cheap page reader Fresnel combo.
The Tachihara combo is very slightly less thick. Neither of these would fit into my Cambo unless I get longer screws; even then it is not an ideal fit, too thick.
I was confused by Ari's mention of an aerial image until I realized the little circle in the centre of the Tachihara and other Acrylic GG/Fresnel combo's is a little rangefinder.
Lastly the Acrylic GG/Fresnel combo did not have any visible Fresnel lines, either eyeballing the focus or using the loupe.
On the other hand, the brightness of the combo was not better than my hand ground glass GG and "Art Minds Page Magnifier from Michael's Craft Store"
We will see what Ari says.

He says as he is typing and Ari is sending.

Thank you, Bill, you've explained very clearly that which I garbled. I do hope the new screen is an improvement over your previous screen.
Eric, I personally find the GG/fresnel-in-one brighter and easier to focus; where the traditional GG with fresnel overlay excels is evenness of overall brightness. I hope that makes sense.
But I have one of those same combos (GG & separate fresnel) and never use it because the fresnel lines are coarse and make focus difficult.

Ari
16-Oct-2014, 11:17
Ari. Is this a GG update thread or solely your plastic replacement thread?

You seem to reject all talk of glass.

Just curious, as I would like to discuss all types of GG.

Randy, please discuss anything you wish, I have no limits on the reach of the thread.
I was looking at acrylic only because for travel it would seem a more reliable option, especially if there are no immediate options for GG replacement.


Cool, thanks for the clarification Ari!

Ps- you're new ground glass set up looks like a joy to use!

Sorry if my explanation got muddled Eric, I added a little bit in my previous post.
And yes, the new screen is a pleasure to use.