The Salt Print Thread

[tgtaylor]

Very few people are working with salted paper. If you are one and would like to share your work, please post.

Here's my latest:

Sutro Bath Ruins and Seal Rocks, San Francisco

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3905/15179728385_f3f970d4e1.jpg

Platinum toned 8x10 Contact print on Bergger Cot-320.

Thomas

[Vaughn]

Very few people are working with salted paper. If you are one and would like to share your work, please post. Thomas

Well, here are my only two decent salt prints. From a 5x7 neg and from an 8x10 neg (x-ray film)

[NiNo]

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a) 2g NaCl + 4 g Knox in 100 ml distilled water
b) 10% AgNO3

paper: triple coated a) and b) Lana Aquarelle Hot Pressed 300gsm, waxed
neg.: Fujinon 250/6,3 + 5x7 Ilford HP5+ in Pyrocat HD 1:1:100
that was my first and last Salted Paper print, but i want to make some prints again :)

[mdm]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iYJaqdnDE70/UMQ2Q8tC-MI/AAAAAAAABrA/IIDyaSa4ELo/s1600/RoadOiled.jpg
5x7 Gold toned salt print on Berger COT320

[mdm]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QCAI_WtXB-g/ULHJE7MiclI/AAAAAAAABn8/CY8usEgS7z8/s1600/wiltedblossoms.jpg
same again

[tgtaylor]

Golden Gate Life Saving Station (former), San Francisco

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3870/15189661635_941067a743_z.jpg

Platinum and gold-toned 8x10 contact (Delta 100) print on Bergger Cot320.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Three Brothers and Merced, Yosemite

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3922/14883195207_65ec1f0f78_c.jpg

Platinum-toned 8x10 contact print (Acros) on Bergger Cot-320.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Rideout Fountain. Golden Gate Park, San Francisco.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5592/15255795846_f35b42956b_c.jpg

Platinum and gold-toned contact print (Ilford) on Bergger Cot320.

Thomas

[ImSoNegative]

nice work everyone!!

[David Lobato]

I have a friend who makes albumen (egg whites) prints with salt. Is that the same process as these? I should take him up on his offer to teach me how to do it.

[Erik Larsen]

I have a friend who makes albumen (egg whites) prints with salt. Is that the same process as these? I should take him up on his offer to teach me how to do it.

It's very similar, except in salt printing you use salted gelatin instead of albumen and the the tones can be different with different toners used. It's fun, take up your friend on the offer or just dive in with the many tutorials available.

[tgtaylor]

nice work everyone!!

On behalf of myself and everyone else,. thank you ImSoNegative!

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's one that I printed a couple of day ago

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5598/15251178388_cffa483642_c.jpg

I ran out of matt boards but have some arriving next week when I will mount it.

Gold and platinum-toned on Bergger paper. Ilford 8x10 negative with Toyo MII.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Done!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3932/15466652151_eccc666dee_z.jpg

Thomas

[analoguey]

Well, here are my only two decent salt prints. From a 5x7 neg and from an 8x10 neg (x-ray film)

I remember the boy's picture from the X-ray thread. The print looks much better!

[Woodturner-fran]

This is one I did some time back. Its a contact print from a 5x4 neg. It took me quite a while to get a decent salt print result. I found that even application of the gelatin solution, fuming over ammonia before exposure, then exposing plenty and being careful with the washing helped a lot. It is more "craft" intensive I think than regular darkroom work. The results are beautiful though when done right and I have since bought a load of LF x-ray film intending to use it for some salt prints.


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[tgtaylor]

Nice portrait Woodturner-fran.

I agree that salt printing is more a craft than regular darkroom work. Each print requires about 4 hours from coating the paper to hanging it up to dry but with the right subject matter the results you get are worth it. I have two new subject in mind and I'll shoot one today and the other hopefully tomorrow.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Mission San Juan Bautista, California

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3955/15391572967_3df5e39bba.jpg

Toyo MII, 360 Symmar-S, Delta 100. Contact printed on Bergger Cot 320.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Two Nineteenth Century Structures in the Old West, Bodie California

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5615/15418921510_e1b877487a.jpg

Now this is what I call "equivalence." Nineteenth Century structures photographed and printed using a nineteenth century process. In this case the printing process actually predates the structures by about 40 years.

Toyo 810MII, 240 Symmar-S, Fuji Acros. Printed on Bergger Cot320.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

UPDATE:

The handmade one of a kind fine art prints that I posted above will soon be available for purchase at very reasonable prices. Each print was hand processed and printed by the artists using the highest quality materials and toned in gold and/or platinum. As in the nineteenth century the sun was their sole exposure source.

So stay tuned. I’ll be posting a link where these can be purchased at or you can respond here and I’ll notify you by email.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's one that I did over the weekend:

Seal Rocks, San Francisco

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5611/15643732332_bf0e0357c4.jpg

Toyo 810MII, 480 Apo Ronar, Delta 100. Printed on Bergger Cot320.

Thomas

[djdister]

UPDATE:

The handmade one of a kind fine art prints that I posted above will soon be available for purchase at very reasonable prices. Each print was hand processed and printed by the artists using the highest quality materials and toned in gold and/or platinum. As in the nineteenth century the sun was their sole exposure source.

So stay tuned. I’ll be posting a link where these can be purchased at or you can respond here and I’ll notify you by email.

Thomas

Is there someplace where a higher quality view of these prints could be found?

Thanks!

[tgtaylor]

Here's a reprint I did Sunday morning before Game 5 of the WS:

Sutro Baths (Ruins), San Francisco

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/15464964198_7bd0fc45ce.jpg

I wasn't entirely satisfied with the original print and thought that my new technique would improve it. I was right! It has greater contrast and a beautiful tone. Each print takes about 4 hours to print from the time that you first coat the paper until it's ready to dry. Add another 4 hours for it to air dry and we're talking a full 8 hour shift. I'll have 15 different salt images to start with.

Toyo 810G, 360 Symmar-S, Delta 100. Printed on Bergger Cot320.

Thomas

[MDR]

Nice results what formula did you use if you don't my mistaking

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Dominik. I salt with 2% ammonium chloride in distilled water and then sensitize with 11% silver in distilled water. Each print is toned in gold or split-toned with gold and platinum.

Thomas

[andreios]

Another nice one, Thomas. And thanks for the info about your senzitizing...

[MDR]

Thanks Dominik. I salt with 2% ammonium chloride in distilled water and then sensitize with 11% silver in distilled water. Each print is toned in gold or split-toned with gold and platinum.

Thomas

Thank you for the info

[Ramiro Elena]

I am about to get into it (just ordered the chemicals.) Thomas, all your flickr images are gone. Don't know if done on purpose... that usually happens when you edit or substitute the image on Flickr.

[tgtaylor]

Yes, I deleted them including the one above but obviously it's still on Flickers router. I'm going to send them an email.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Prepping to make some salt prints from 12x20 Efke 125 film. Wondering if you guys would suggest an N+1 or an N+2 negative or should I just shoot it normal? What I'll probably do is make four exposures and run the gamut from N to N+2 and see which neg will print best.

Yeah, it's an expensive test...that's why I'm asking for suggestions. I'm also planning to use salt from Robert Smithson's 'Spiral Jetty' in the making of the print. We'll see how it works out...I have 15 lbs of salt I harvested from that site years ago.

[Ramiro Elena]

Is it possible to see them on flickr?

[ScottPhotoCo]

Quick salt printing question:

I am beginning my experimentation with salt printing and am considering the plusses and minuses of different methods of silver coating. So far I've seen both brush as well as rod coating. What do you prefer and why?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts!


Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[Erik Larsen]

Tim, if your paper and salt coating are smooth it's easy to use a rod. If you have an uneven salt coating or a textured paper a brush will give a better coating. I find a brush coating with an excess of silver solution to be rather foolproof, but if you are frugal you can use much less silver solution with a rod but run the risk of less than perfect coating if the paper surface isn't really smooth. Try both and you'll understand where I'm coming from.

[ScottPhotoCo]

Tim, if your paper and salt coating are smooth it's easy to use a rod. If you have an uneven salt coating or a textured paper a brush will give a better coating. I find a brush coating with an excess of silver solution to be rather foolproof, but if you are frugal you can use much less silver solution with a rod but run the risk of less than perfect coating if the paper surface isn't really smooth. Try both and you'll understand where I'm coming from.

Thank you Eric. Very helpful.

Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

[tgtaylor]

I awoke at 3am on Friday intending to drive to the eastern Sierra to do some photography but the weather forecast had a wind advisory for the eastern Sierra with gust of 60mph so I decided against it and went back to bed. The weather at home was mild and sunny that morning so I decided to print the negative below as a salt print. I have printed it in the past as a Van Dyke and as a Kallitype.

Palace of Fine Arts, San Francisco

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7489/15729373117_27ef316ef4_z.jpg

Thomas

[Ramiro Elena]

My second salt print. I am curious about the brown/chocolate stain inside the image. I don't know if it is a problem of the salting or the sensitizing.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7539/15825691340_de6615d405_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q7sNFf)
img303 (https://flic.kr/p/q7sNFf) by rabato (https://www.flickr.com/people/71073452@N00/), on Flickr

[pau3]

Nice image, Ramiro. I found the different colors very intriguing.

[Joe Smigiel]

I've always associated the brown/neutral split to be the result of the paper not being totally dry before printing. Might be other things at work though.

[mdm]

Maybe bronzing from an excess of silver. Ellie young's book 'the salt printing manual' is well worth having, I would look it up for you but appear to have lost mine so am going on memory.

[tgtaylor]

So far I haven't experienced that problem but I would guess that it is from poor coating in those areas. What formula are you using? Also, it could be from staining that results if the paper isn't promptly exposed (within ~ 1.5 hours f coating). You can prolong the time for exposure by adding citric acid to the sensitizer. I think it's 5mg/100ml of sensitizer.

Thomas

[MDR]

Maybe bronzing from an excess of silver. Ellie young's book 'the salt printing manual' is well worth having, I would look it up for you but appear to have lost mine so am going on memory.

Her master thesis on which the book is based is available online for free and also well worth the read. http://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/eserv/rmit:7850/Young.pdf

[Ramiro Elena]

Her master thesis on which the book is based is available online for free and also well worth the read. http://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/eserv/rmit:7850/Young.pdf

Cool! Thanks :)
I am thinking it could very well be due to poor coating. It was the step that gave me more doubts.

Salt solution
20 gr. of salt
20 gr. gelatin
1000ml water

The albumen print I did came out fine in terms of coating. The color is not as pleasant though. It is quite difficult to coat with albumen. All the paper I did looks very uneven.
I did try to tone a couple prints (Gold/Borax) and I was surprised to see very little color change. The highlights acquired a faint yellow tint.

[mdm]

Sodium citrate in the salt solution made a world of difference to my prints, faster exposures and contrastier so more normal negatives work better. I seem to remember toning for some time in the gold borax toner. Make shure your prints are well washed before toneing. I used to use Ellie's workflow and fix and then tone all my keeper prints at once rather than later. Sometimes the chocolate print straight out of the frame is beautiful too, and they can be kept for a time in a book before they go and scanned too for a permanent solution. Both my prints on the first page were gold borax toned.

[Ramiro Elena]

Not easy to find where I live apparently. I am too toning after fixing but I wonder if untoned images really fade that badly. I love the untoned original salt print color.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Yesterday I spent seven hours 'washing' salt I had collected from Utah's Spiral Jetty. After it was cleaned of all the brine eggs, shrimp larvae, sand, dust, twigs and other random stuff that was in it, I took that solution and boiled it down to a thick paste. I then poured that paste into a frying pan and heated it slowly until it was dry. I took 40 grams of it and added it to 2000ml of distilled water and now I have my 2% saline solution. I also mixed up some new 12% Silver Nitrate as well. I plan to add the citric acid to the saline solution and will be printing on Arches Platine.

Here are some boring pics of how to boil down salt. :)

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[Rob Hale]

Calling mdm.

Hi David,
I keep looking salt printing but finding the ingredients on shore in NZ is an uphill battle.
Are you sourcing your ingredients here in NZ or bringing them from over seas ?
If you have sources on shore would you be kind and list them for me ?
Regards

Rob

[mdm]

If all else fails then Ellie at goldstreetstudios.com.au can help, she is a Kiwi. She can supply COT 320 paper, ingredients, book. I got my silver nitrate and gold chloride from artcraft in the US. Hypo, Sodium Sulfite (jasol) and Sodium Citrate (ingredientstop) are available locally, all used in food processing. There is a guy selling photochemicals on trademe. I am afraid I am a lapsed salt printer at the moment, but will be back into it soon.

[Rob Hale]

Hi David,

Thanks for the information; I will chase salt printing up after the break. I have an inkling that the silver nitrate is on a “no ship” list but I think that it is used by surgeons as a “ stopper “ of some sort so even if pricy it is in the country.
In the mean time I will chase up goldstreetsudios.

Regards

Rob

[Ramiro Elena]

David, does sodium citrate go by another name? What sort of stores do you think may have it?

[pau3]

Ramiro, in Barcelona you can find "citrato sódico" at Químics Dalmau, Villarroel street.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Ramiro, you can also ask in Manuel Riesgo, in Madrid. I think they have better prices than Dalmau, but with Riesgo you'll have shipping charges (MRW, 9 euros)

[Ramiro Elena]

Thank you Pau, I looked at their website and didn't see it. Dalmau is so far from the center though... I live in Sitges :(

[Ramiro Elena]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8611/15893717150_038283a5a5_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qdtso3)
img306 (https://flic.kr/p/qdtso3) by rabato (https://www.flickr.com/people/71073452@N00/), on Flickr

I am becoming quite puzzled with this technique. Before I started, and having read a few tutorials and guides, I was expecting brown colored prints. My first three came out with a neutral tone which I very much like.
Using the same paper, sizing and silver nitrate dilution and a few prints after, I haven't been able to reproduce those neutral tones.

I went back and re-checked every step before coming back here. I first thought I had possibly contaminated the silver nitrate solution and made a new batch.
One thing I wasn't doing right was washing the brush after every coating which might have caused irregularities in the coating.

On top of that, I see many salted prints that are neutral colored/toned... so, what is to be expected? what's common?

[Ramiro Elena]

Ramiro, you can also ask in Manuel Riesgo, in Madrid. I think they have better prices than Dalmau, but with Riesgo you'll have shipping charges (MRW, 9 euros)

Domingo, I just saw your reply by chance! Don't know Riesgo, I'll look him up. Dalmau is quite expensive. I actually ordered my stuff form Didactis in france.

This is the albumen version of the previous image. The contrast is much better but I enjoy the salt print much more.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7515/15893782808_8e4ec3837b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qdtMU5)
img306 copy (https://flic.kr/p/qdtMU5) by rabato (https://www.flickr.com/people/71073452@N00/), on Flickr

[mdm]

That's beautiful. I made some the other day too and seem to be getting a brown tone but I think my gold borax toner is exhausted, it was well used anyway and has sat in a bottle for 2 years now, so I might start fresh. It takes a few attempts to get the coating right and exposure ok. I was getting better contrast with sunlight but this was made with a uv lamp because the sun set.
127016

[Kimberly Anderson]

I made some tests yesterday and found my negatives to be woefully under exposed and under developed. They will print beautifully in silver, will look good in pt/pd also, but salt...no way...my exposures are not even giving me d-max in the border at all. I'm going to run a test and process in 2x strength PMK today and see what it looks like. I am using Fabriano Artistico for my tests and using a gelatin/sodium chloride solution applied with a hake brush. Also using a 12% Silver Nitrate solution, but will also mix up some 20% and try it too.

Salt prints are tricky little beasties.

[Ramiro Elena]

That's the same chemistry I am using Kimberly. My negatives are all over the density range, I am amazed at how bad I am at developing but I can tell which are going to print out well right away.
I am mainly using two papers, Arches Satine fine grain and Sholler (which I suspect is hard to get outside the EU).
I still find my prints to be too brown. David, your example looks like my first prints.

Here's another print out of a thin negative together with a low contrast set up.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8608/16079345511_9190230289_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quSRe2)
img305 (https://flic.kr/p/quSRe2) by rabato (https://www.flickr.com/people/71073452@N00/), on Flickr

[tgtaylor]

Anything over 12% is supposed to reduce the contrast. The standard is 10-12% and I choose 11%. This is what you want to arrive at:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/15464964198_7bd0fc45ce.jpg

Thomas

[Ramiro Elena]

Any idea where the brown is coming from then?

[Kimberly Anderson]

Anything over 12% is supposed to reduce the contrast. The standard is 10-12% and I choose 11%. This is what you want to arrive at:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3933/15464964198_7bd0fc45ce.jpg

Thomas

Interesting. James' book suggests that 20% is what he has standardized on after trying it for high altitude (I'm at 4600 feet). I figger I won't know until I try it at least... Processing my step wedge to try to determine a good EI and processing time in PMK right now. I shot a step-wedge on 12x20 and will make a salt print from it later either today or tomorrow. Thanks for the input guys. :)

[tgtaylor]

AFAIK, James uses a 10% solution which is the same concentration used historically. Maybe he did use a 20% concentration for high altitude but I can't see high altitude, where the UV is greater, requiring more silver than at sea level.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

AFAIK, James uses a 10% solution which is the same concentration used historically. Maybe he did use a 20% concentration for high altitude but I can't see high altitude, where the UV is greater, requiring more silver than at sea level.

Thomas

Well I read it last night in his 2nd edition of The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes...

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I believe he indicates that it is humidity and not so much UV that he is concerned about. I live in the high desert and it's winter and thusly very dry. I believe I will try some 20% and see what it does. FWIW, I have about 2 lbs of Silver Nitrate crystals, so mixing up several batches isn't a major concern. ;)

[mdm]

I am doing 12% silver nitrate, with Himalayan rock salt (pink from iodine) and sodium citrate but I can't remember the dilution, it's just in a bottle, but I have a copy of Ellie's book coming and I can check. The Himalayan rock salt makes for a fastish exposure. My negatives are still very scannable. When I use a dense unscannable negative I struggle to print he highlights.

[tgtaylor]

Well I read it last night in his 2nd edition of The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes...

127028

I believe he indicates that it is humidity and not so much UV that he is concerned about. I live in the high desert and it's winter and thusly very dry. I believe I will try some 20% and see what it does. FWIW, I have about 2 lbs of Silver Nitrate crystals, so mixing up several batches isn't a major concern. ;)

Interesting as it appears to be at odds with other writers on the salt print process. But he has always steered me in the right direction in the past so I'll mix-up a 10-15mL 20% solution to try on a print.

A third edition of his text is due to be released in February: http://www.amazon.com/Book-Alternative-Photographic-Processes/dp/1285089316/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1419305830&sr=1-1&keywords=the+book+of+alternative+photographic+processes I signed-up for mine.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

I am doing 12% silver nitrate, with Himalayan rock salt (pink from iodine) and sodium citrate but I can't remember the dilution, it's just in a bottle, but I have a copy of Ellie's book coming and I can check. The Himalayan rock salt makes for a fastish exposure. My negatives are still very scannable. When I use a dense unscannable negative I struggle to print he highlights.\\

I have a portable Refractometer for measuring the salinity of a sample. I'm thinking of taking water from the San Francisco Bay and Pacific shoreline, boiling it to eliminate microscopic organisms, and then bringing it to a 2% salt solution for "San Francisco Salted Prints."

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Yes, we should all be using the sea for our salt if possible I believe. I ordered a hydrometer that measures in %, and I will be using it from now on instead of boiling down to salt crystals and measuring out grams of sodium chloride.

The 20% silver nitrate with the citric acid added gave me better results than yesterday with the 12% with no citric acid.

I am wondering though how 'bone-dry' the paper needs to be before exposing? I am seeing funky big blotches in the print I made that probably wasn't quite dry enough...

[mdm]

Hair dryer is the ticket. 6ml of each solution for an 8x10 ish area of 11x14 paper and a long pipette in lieu of a coating rod. Dries in no time flat.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I have read that using heat on salt prints can change the response characteristics of the silver nitrate due to a temperature shift...at least James recommends using a cool hair dryer.

I heat the devil out of my cyanotypes, VDB's, pt/pd prints, but haven't heated the salt yet. I will be printing again today and will see if it is affected by heat at all. James does seem to contradict himself however, b/c in the same section where he cautions the use of heat on the paper, he suggests using a dry mount press to steam the heat out of the sensitized paper...so I chose not to use any heat (and I got impatient and probably exposed a piece that was way too damp).

More testing ensues...

[Ramiro Elena]

Hair dryer is the ticket. 6ml of each solution for an 8x10 ish area of 11x14 paper and a long pipette in lieu of a coating rod. Dries in no time flat.

hmmm... I use 4ml for a 4x5 but I use a brush that probably takes a lot chemistry. Although I love the matte quality of the salt print, albumen gives nicer contrast and detail. It is a pain in the ass to coat though.
It doesn't take any heat to dry. Hair dryer in cool dries in a couple minutes.

[tgtaylor]

I let mine air dry face-up for about 1.25 hours before coating with senstizer or printing.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

So here's a question:

I just got my salinometer and am measuring my 2% saline solution with it and the reading is just over 7%. By volume of water and weight of NaCl I *believe* I measured out for a 2% solution (which is what I'm measuring).

Which do I trust? I did look at the salinometer in my filtered tap water and it does read just above 0.

Now, the monkey in the works is that the salt prints I made yesterday look pretty good as far as Dmax and exposure.

I am going to finish out this batch of salt+gelatine for my sizing before I re-mix any new saline solution. I don't want to throw too many variables at myself during this testing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it right?

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[tgtaylor]

2% is 2 grams salt per 100Ml of water. So if your salineometer is reading 7% in a known 2% solution then it's "calibrated" at 7% for a true 2% solution.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

2% is 2 grams salt per 100Ml of water. So if your salineometer is reading 7% in a known 2% solution then it's "calibrated" at 7% for a true 2% solution.

Thomas

So your suggestion is that the salinometer is incorrect? I am hoping that it's not...

[tgtaylor]

It's correct at the point of calibration.

Thomas

[Jim Noel]

I fully agree with Thomas. Years ago when I began making salt prints I learned it is better to go with proper compounding of solutions and stop worrying about testing instruments since I didn't and don't have the money to buy really good ones. Besides, they take a lot of the fun out of photography.

[Kimberly Anderson]

So then 7% is my new 2% I suppose... It is curious however that it reads very nearly 0% when in filtered tap water.

I have learned through hard experience that if I have a tool to do the job correctly, then I should use that tool. In this case I have a good set of tools for measuring weight and volume and the solution I made seems to work well. I also have another tool, that although it was only $28, is designed and supposedly correctly calibrated from the factory to do the job it was intended. The problem is that the measuring that I did does not correspond with the measuring the tool does.

Like I said, I'm going to use up this batch before I make up more. Maybe the testing and re-testing of the salinometer is something that can wait until a rainy day when all of the bathrooms are cleaned and toilets are scrubbed and I've got nothing else to do...

[MDR]

So then 7% is my new 2% I suppose... It is curious however that it reads very nearly 0% when in filtered tap water.

I have learned through hard experience that if I have a tool to do the job correctly, then I should use that tool. In this case I have a good set of tools for measuring weight and volume and the solution I made seems to work well. I also have another tool, that although it was only $28, is designed and supposedly correctly calibrated from the factory to do the job it was intended. The problem is that the measuring that I did does not correspond with the measuring the tool does.

Like I said, I'm going to use up this batch before I make up more. Maybe the testing and re-testing of the salinometer is something that can wait until a rainy day when all of the bathrooms are cleaned and toilets are scrubbed and I've got nothing else to do...

Filtered tap water can still have some salinity use destilled water or pure water for correct calibration. The salted paper process is beyond scientific precision and was created at a time when alchemistic views still existed. The only really precise instrument you need is a scale everything else is Overkill.

[Jim Noel]

Filtered tap water can still have some salinity use destilled water or pure water for correct calibration. The salted paper process is beyond scientific precision and was created at a time when alchemistic views still existed. The only really precise instrument you need is a scale everything else is Overkill.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[tgtaylor]

I agree. I only got the Refractometer for determining the salinity of water from the San Francisco Bay and Pacific ocean. After boiling and filtering I'll bring it to a 2% solution with distilled water.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Salt Printing = Alchemy

Ok, I get it now. From all the various sources I've read about the entire process, I'm starting to get the idea that there are a thousand variables that if you throw them all into the mixer and set it on blend, you might...just maybe...get a nice looking print.

Thanks guys. I went out and re-shot this morning. Negs possibly by the weekend. Also bought some more Fabriano Artistico, which is the paper I had the most of when I started my tests, so I thought I'd stick with it.

[tgtaylor]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7482/15502517854_40e2c71bb9.jpg

I shot this image several months back and recall being attracted by the alternating pattern of light and dark on the road. However I was kind of turned off by the breaks in the canopy and never printed the negative...until yesterday morning. When it had dried, I placed it against the microwave and it passed the initial test and after coffee this morning mounted it on 4-ply mounting board. Stopped by the local Tap Plastics this afternoon for a sheet of OP3AR and then to a Blick's for a Nielsen frame. It's back up against the microwave and I'll hang it tomorrow for the final test. I love the play of light of shadow and the further you get from it the more it pulls you back in.

Thomas

[D-tach]

I shot this image several months back and recall being attracted by the alternating pattern of light and dark on the road. However I was kind of turned off by the breaks in the canopy and never printed the negative...until yesterday morning. When it had dried, I placed it against the microwave and it passed the initial test and after coffee this morning mounted it on 4-ply mounting board. Stopped by the local Tap Plastics this afternoon for a sheet of OP3AR and then to a Blick's for a Nielsen frame. It's back up against the microwave and I'll hang it tomorrow for the final test. I love the play of light of shadow and the further you get from it the more it pulls you back in.

Thomas

Nice Thomas, do you mount with a drymountpress?

[photojeff3200]

This has been a great thread and I'm happy to see so many salt printers. I've been making salt prints for a few years now and have given up film, ambrotypes, etc to shoot specifically for salt. I think they're the prettiest images. Just a few humble observations based on what I've read;
Ellie Young's book is a must have for anyone who wants to pursue this process.
I use Arches Platine paper only. I find that I don't have any staining problems that I do with other paper and I like the tone it produces.
I like to use a well washed (distilled water) foam brush to apply my silver nitrate, I use a coating rod for bigger prints.
I found that the tone of a print has to do with four things; salt type (sodium or ammonium), paper type, negative density and toner (whether you choose to tone or not).
My prints got A LOT better when I bought a densitometer. A density around 1.5-1.8 works best for me because it gives a nice deep chocolate brown/black tone. I make wet plate negatives so its easy for me to check how the density is coming along as I redevelop the negative.
Here's a photo I made a few weeks ago for a Christmas card. It took me about 20 hours to build and shoot the diorama. The the moon was printed on vellum paper and taped to a hole I cut out in the black paper background. The scene was a 4 minute exposure at f4 and the moon was 45 second exposure at f4.
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[jp]

That's real nice Jeff!

[Kimberly Anderson]

Jeff! I love that photograph! Are you selling copies of it? I absolutely love it.

On a side-note, has anyone toned with selenium? I looked at the Young paper and didn't see any reference to it. I also did a search and the only one who mentions it at all is Ole on APUG in THIS THREAD (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum42/26615-toning-salt-prints.html).

[MDR]

This has been a great thread and I'm happy to see so many salt printers. I've been making salt prints for a few years now and have given up film, ambrotypes, etc to shoot specifically for salt. I think they're the prettiest images. Just a few humble observations based on what I've read;
Ellie Young's book is a must have for anyone who wants to pursue this process.
I use Arches Platine paper only. I find that I don't have any staining problems that I do with other paper and I like the tone it produces.
I like to use a well washed (distilled water) foam brush to apply my silver nitrate, I use a coating rod for bigger prints.
I found that the tone of a print has to do with four things; salt type (sodium or ammonium), paper type, negative density and toner (whether you choose to tone or not).
My prints got A LOT better when I bought a densitometer. A density around 1.5-1.8 works best for me because it gives a nice deep chocolate brown/black tone. I make wet plate negatives so its easy for me to check how the density is coming along as I redevelop the negative.
Here's a photo I made a few weeks ago for a Christmas card. It took me about 20 hours to build and shoot the diorama. The the moon was printed on vellum paper and taped to a hole I cut out in the black paper background. The scene was a 4 minute exposure at f4 and the moon was 45 second exposure at f4.
127280

Since you have given up film what negative material are you using calotype or some other process. I also agree with you salt prints are extremely beautiful prefer them to all other alt. processes even platinum prints aren't as delicate as salt prints.

[tgtaylor]

Thanks D-tach. I dry mount sandwiching the pint with release paper and then board.

Thomas

[Ramiro Elena]

This is a hard negative to print. Very expired Polaroid 665 and a low contrast lens such as the Aero Ektar.
Like I mentioned in the albumen thread, I printed this last week and ran it under a hot iron just an hour ago. The warm brown tones immediately changed to cool brown.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7479/15955307437_11c87c8934_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qiV82x)
img325 copy (https://flic.kr/p/qiV82x) by rabato (https://www.flickr.com/people/71073452@N00/), on Flickr

[tgtaylor]

I've read that heat changes the color but I have yet to notice even a slight color change when dry mounting. In fact the print above was pressed for a minute twice @ 190F. After the first press I notcrd the left edge unadhered and thought that the tissue failed to cover there. But it was there Andi pressed it fr another minute @ 190F. No color change but I use release paper and sandwich with board.

Thomas

[photojeff3200]

QUOTE=Kimberly Anderson;1201569]Jeff! I love that photograph! Are you selling copies of it? I absolutely love it.

On a side-note, has anyone toned with selenium? I looked at the Young paper and didn't see any reference to it. I also did a search and the only one who mentions it at all is Ole on APUG in THIS THREAD (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum42/26615-toning-salt-prints.html).[/QUOTE]

Thanks Kimberly! Yeah I can sell you a print. Send me an email with address.
I took a class on alt print making with Quinn Jacobson and he said not to use Selenium toner. I don't remember the reason. Ellie Young does say not to use it either but, again, I don't remember the reason. If it's not in her salt book then it's in her dissertation paper which can be found on line too. I do remember a salt printer using Selenium but it was a very low concentration, maybe 1% and only in the toner for a minute or two.
jeff

[photojeff3200]

Since you have given up film what negative material are you using calotype or some other process. I also agree with you salt prints are extremely beautiful prefer them to all other alt. processes even platinum prints aren't as delicate as salt prints.

Dominik,

I use the Wet Plate process or Collodion process to make negatives.

check out a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKH_cKUZKSA

jeff

[mdm]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VwA7RmzOHsI/VKH2D9MYbdI/AAAAAAAACLI/5sRdEYQFb1Q/s1600/blah056-1.jpg
The beauty of an unfixed salt print. Washed only. Fabriano Artistico HP. Whole Plate negative. It could have done with a bit more sun but its a grey old day.

[MDR]

Dominik,

I use the Wet Plate process or Collodion process to make negatives.

check out a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKH_cKUZKSA

jeff

Thanks for the answer I just saw that you already wrote it in your original post embarrasing.:o

[Ramiro Elena]

I've read that heat changes the color but I have yet to notice even a slight color change when dry mounting. In fact the print above was pressed for a minute twice @ 190F. After the first press I notcrd the left edge unadhered and thought that the tissue failed to cover there. But it was there Andi pressed it fr another minute @ 190F. No color change but I use release paper and sandwich with board.

Thomas

From the prints I've seen of yours you get neutral tones in your salt prints. I was only able to get neutral tones in my first three prints. I ran those under the hot iron and didn't observe a change in color. It seems only prints with a brown/chocolate tonality change to a cooler brown.
Albumen prints change a little and seem to go back to their original color.
One thing I noticed yesterday is all of the albumen prints have been changing to cooler tones after a week.

[tgtaylor]

Ramiro,

I tone my prints with gold and/or platinum to achive the tones I want. Three is no subsequent change in coloration.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Getting close...going to play with adding potassium dichromate in the next few prints. I'm going to let this one wash and dry before I determine an exposure time.

Any ideas on potassium dichromate altering exposure times? I remember that it does a little in pt/pd, but can't remember reading anything about that with salt.

127357

[Kimberly Anderson]

Before and after the heat press. 2 minutes at 180deg f.

Fabriano Artistico, 20% AgNo, salt/gelatin sizing, NuArc 26 1K @ 70 joules.

12x20 Efke 125 @ 125, 2x strength PMK @ 75 deg / 15 minutes, BTZS tubes.

Korona 12x20 camera, 355 G-Claron, red filter.

127388

127389

[tgtaylor]

Hi Kimberly - nice image. Perhaps the lightening in the second image is due to the image not being toned? I tone all my prints and never get a shift either in color or tone.

Here's an image that I recently printed:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8597/15971079687_0dcc7f96e0.jpg

The top half was burned-in a for a couple of minutes while dodging the bottom half and toned with gold and platinum.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Yes, we shall see. I will play with some gold chloride toner tomorrow. I am happy where I'm at right now but want to refine it just a tad with the toner and some contrast increase.

[tgtaylor]

Try doing the bulk of your exposure in the open shade and then finishing it off with a direct blast of sunlight. I now expose to the open shade for 20 minutes and then from 1 to 3 or 4 minutes to the direct sun while checking the exposure every minute or so. The slow exposure is said to increase contrast.

Thomas

[Jim Noel]

Try doing the bulk of your exposure in the open shade and then finishing it off with a direct blast of sunlight. I now expose to the open shade for 20 minutes and then from 1 to 3 or 4 minutes to the direct sun while checking the exposure every minute or so. The slow exposure is said to increase contrast.

Thomas

Exposure of the print in o[en shade does increase contrast when printing negatives which did not receive adequate development.

[desertrat]

My second salt print and first one that was semi-successful.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh237/dezzertrat/Film Photography/Large Format/Alt Process/Salt Prints/Salt_print_canyon1.jpg

Negative exposed two years ago on 8X10 Kodak High Speed Green X-ray film at a shallow canyon lined with basalt cliffs near Lucky Peak Dam, not far from Boise, ID.

I think a yellow filter was used at exposure. Film processed a few days after exposure. Salt print made a couple of days ago.

Paper is Southworth Resume 32 lb. in 8-1/2 X 11 inch sheets. This paper was listed in an online tutorial for making calotype prints. The paper is sized, so no gelatin or starch was used in the salt solution. The paper is also buffered, so it was soaked in dilute vinegar and dried before salting. I've also used this paper to make a few cyanotypes.

The salt was from a very old bag of Morton Ice Cream salt, used in the freezing mixture for old fashioned ice cream makers. This is the least pure salt they sell, basically as mined but broken up into small chunks. I bought some canning and pickling salt because I was concerned about the impurities in the ice cream salt, but after seeing salt prints made from sea water I decided to give it a try.

First print was made with 2% salt and 12% silver nitrate. The paper turned brown during exposure. I chose a very dense, contrasty, over developed negative and it actually had too much contrast.

This print was made with citric acid added to the silver nitrate solution, just enough for the amount used to coat the print. The margins didn't turn brown at all, so that was a success. The negative wasn't really high in contrast, it would print fine with enlarging paper.

Exposure was 90 minutes under a 500 watt quartz halogen work light with the heavy glass UV filter removed. An Apugger recommended this as a low budget light source, and there was already one out in the garage that seldom got used. I guess the long exposure was responsible for getting fairly decent print contrast from the only moderately contrasty negative. Lately the sky has been under heavy overcast, and it's too cold to take the printing frame outside.

The print was fixed in about a 7% solution of sodium thiosulfate with 1% sodium sulfite added to keep it from going bad in a hurry.

Some small pieces of the paper surface stuck to the negative, possibly because the print frame got fairly warm from being close to a 500 watt heat source. Next prints will be a bit further away, and food wrap film will be used between negative and print.

The print was scanned in color, but the scan only showed traces of the print's color cast. Some color balance manipulation was done in GIMP to make the scan look as close to the original print as possible, color cast wise. The scan also has much coarser texture than the print. My scanner works well only with glossy paper. Scans of matt paper look coarse like this. The print has a smooth matt finish to the naked eye.

[Jim Noel]

"
Paper is Southworth Resume 32 lb. in 8-1/2 X 11 inch sheets. This paper was listed in an online tutorial for making calotype prints. The paper is sized, so no gelatin or starch was used in the salt solution. The paper is also buffered, so it was soaked in dilute vinegar and dried before salting. I've also used this paper to make a few cyanotypes."

You used my favorite paper, but I find no need to soak it in vinegar or other acid. I have used several boxes of it because it is the paper I use when I teach the process. My salt mixture always contains gelatin.

[desertrat]

"
Paper is Southworth Resume 32 lb. in 8-1/2 X 11 inch sheets. This paper was listed in an online tutorial for making calotype prints. The paper is sized, so no gelatin or starch was used in the salt solution. The paper is also buffered, so it was soaked in dilute vinegar and dried before salting. I've also used this paper to make a few cyanotypes."

You used my favorite paper, but I find no need to soak it in vinegar or other acid. I have used several boxes of it because it is the paper I use when I teach the process. My salt mixture always contains gelatin.
I guess the paper doesn't need to be 'fizzed' before salting. I first used it for cyanotypes, and got fog and blue splotches on my prints. After fizzing it, no issues with the cyanotypes.

[Kimberly Anderson]

So...putting one of my salt prints in a show in February. What are you guys calling these things? Salt Prints? Salted Paper Prints? Calotypes? I'm leaning towards Salted Paper Print myself...

[tgtaylor]

Here's my first salt print of 2015:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7480/15576328793_28a1e3f54c.jpg

I shot and developed the negative Friday afternoon (2 January) and printed it Saturday morning.

Thomas

[Louis Pacilla]

So...putting one of my salt prints in a show in February. What are you guys calling these things? Salt Prints? Salted Paper Prints? Calotypes? I'm leaning towards Salted Paper Print myself...

How about calling it a "salt & pepper paper print" and make the viewers repeat that 10 times as they view the print.:p

[Kimberly Anderson]

Here's my piece for the show in February. We were also asked to write a short essay about our work. Thank you to everyone who helped publicly and privately. You are all a huge help.

Title: Evaporation Pond, US Magnesium, Great Salt Lake, Utah
Medium: Gold-toned, Salted Paper Print
Date: Negative – 2014, Print – 2015
Dimensions: 12x20 inches
Additional Information: Salt used in print harvested from Spiral Jetty, Frame made of reclaimed driftwood from Great Salt Lake.


In 2008 I went to Robert Smithson’s ‘Spiral Jetty’ with an empty bucket, a shovel and an idea. I wanted to make photographs using salt from Utah’s Great Salt Lake.

This process, or making images using salt was the beginning of photography and was discovered in 1834 and patented by William Henry Fox Talbot in England in 1841. Silver nitrate (AgNo) is not light sensitive until it comes in contact with organic material, and in Talbot’s case, he used common salt (NaCl) available at the time. He coated parchment paper with alternating layers of salt water and silver nitrate dissolved in water, and placing those papers into cameras, could create a negative image of what lay in front of the lens. Reversing the negative into a positive was a simple matter once the sensitizing of the salted paper was achieved.

It was this ‘Salted Paper’ process that I had intended to use to make photographs of Great Salt Lake. I had been photographing the lake for 15 years and it had become the subject of my thesis for my MfA degree from USU. When Hikmet invited me to participate in the show, I knew that the time to seriously begin making prints from Jetty Salt had arrived.

Making prints from salt collected at Spiral Jetty would see me delving into the depths of salt washing, distilling, evaporating, purifying and filtering out the various bits of organic matter that is normally found in Great Salt Lake. Once I had purified the Jetty Salt it was ready to mix into a 2% solution and coated onto high quality hot-press watercolor paper. I chose to use Fabriano Artistico for my early tests.

There is a section of Great Salt Lake that has been separated from the natural body of the lake by an intricate network of canals and causeways, using dozens of large diesel-powered pumps to move salt water through various shallow basins that utilize solar evaporation to concentrate the brine as necessary. US Magnesium manages the land in a lease from the State of Utah that has allowed them to manipulate the land and water from the lake in the extraction of various chemical, mineral and heavy-metal resources. It is an undertaking of monumental proportion and is the world’s most extensive industrial use of solar energy.

This image shows one of the evaporation ponds in the area where millions of tons of salt are extracted. Foam is whipped up by strong winds and rolls across the landscape like bubbly tumbleweeds. In the background is the plume from the smokestack at US Magnesium. The Stansbury Basin ponds shown in the foreground annually bring in between 19 and 35 million gallons of lake water annually. The magnitude of this evaporation step is illustrated by the fact that less than one percent of the volume of the original Great Salt Lake brine finally reaches the plant for manufacture of magnesium. In concentrating the brine, about five million metric tons of salts are deposited in the ponds each year.

The frame for this piece is made from driftwood that I have collected from the shores of Great Salt Lake. It is hard to know exactly what structure the wood has come from, but the main wooden structure that has been on the lake is the railroad bridge called the Lucin Cutoff. It was built out of Douglass Fir and Redwood between February 1902 and March 1904. This particular wood was collected on the beach on the west side of Promontory Point in December of 2014.

Kimberly Anderson
January 2015

127537

[peter schrager]

Kimberley..what a magnificent story!! that is one of the best salt prints I have ever seen. most photographers have little success but you have made it work!
thank you for the inspiration!
best,peter

[MDR]

Nice background story and a beautiful print

[tgtaylor]

I reprints mine yesterday morning to get rid of the processing stain visble in the upper left hand corner. This time I came it perfect with a better tone (sepia). Gong to mount and frame it after work today.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

You are picky. I like that. I am refining my latest salt-print too and spent seven hours yesterday tweaking the silver, the gold toning and the processing. LOOOOTS of variables with salt. No two are alike, that is for sure.

[Shailendra]

Hi Kimberly - nice image. Perhaps the lightening in the second image is due to the image not being toned? I tone all my prints and never get a shift either in color or tone.

Here's an image that I recently printed:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8597/15971079687_0dcc7f96e0.jpg

The top half was burned-in a for a couple of minutes while dodging the bottom half and toned with gold and platinum.

Thomas

Thomas, this is beautiful, great work!

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Shailendra.

I printed this as a salt print a couple of months ago but didn't burn in the top-half which, IMM, left it unbalanced. I was explaining that to Jim Andrada at a Starbucks in San Francisco when he was in town and he spilled a little coffee on it which wiped right off. The 2d printing came out perfect.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

So...help me with this one...

Longer exposures have more contrast?

[mdm]

Yes, short exposures have less contrast, long more and apparently the extremes have reciprocity failure too.

[mdm]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-olbjKc29t5U/VK5FwE_Tw4I/AAAAAAAACLs/fOfN21Yfta8/s1600/blah063.jpg
Whole Plate on Fabriano

[Kimberly Anderson]

Yes, short exposures have less contrast, long more and apparently the extremes have reciprocity failure too.

Ok, cool. In an attempt to squeeze some more contrast out of my negative/print I'm switching to 12% Silver Nitrate down from 20%. In my first test last night I am seeing that the 12% is significantly 'slower', thus will need a longer exposure. I was wondering if the longer exposure would add contrast, so I am cautiously optomistic.

Thanks mdm!

[Jim Noel]

Longer exposures add contrast. Not huge amounts, but some. This is also true of film.

[mdm]

According to Ellie Young in her book increasing silver from 12 to 15% increases contrast, prints cooler , improves highlight detail and looses shadow detail. 20% is the same again, so you may be out of luck. Less light though could help and so could a tiny amount of potassium dichromate.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kqDCb1b1yXU/VK5N8ZMJcPI/AAAAAAAACL8/P-lKyJoov0E/s1600/blah064.jpg

[tgtaylor]

Finally got around to mounting and framing the print I made last Sunday:

Pillar Point Harbor, Coastal San Mateo County, California

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7477/16216790526_ed5dde8351.jpg

As it is plainly evident from this print the salt print can compete with and, depending on the subject matter, capable of producing a print superior to the silver gelatin print.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Earlier today I shot what seemed to be a good subject for a salt print: A 19th Century windjammer moored in san Francisco Bay. The negative has been air drying in the Arkay CD-10 dryer for 3.15 hours now and if it holds up to visual scrutiny I'll print it as a salt print tomorrow morning. Like flap jacks on a griddle, a good negative to print is something to wake-up for.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Well the negative came out well although the foresail angling up due to its proximity to the lens above my immediate right came out a little fuzzy due to its proximity and my reluctance to close down all the way. But the main objection with the print is the too dark plank of the starboard bow in the immediate foreground which contrasted unfavorably with the plank of the main deck below. So I went back and reshot it - this time from the port side which had a lighter plank than that on starboard. I also stopped down 2/3 stops past F-45 which brought the foresail into sharp focus. The resulting composition and negative was much stronger except that the bellows vignette at a 45 degree angle on each side of the top beginning at 5/8" in to the negative. There's nothing of importance in those areas so I could print and crop that off with the rototrim. Tilting and refocusing so that everything from the ships bow to stern was in sharp focus resulted in the bottom of the bellows becoming pinched-up on the sides and protruded into the light cone which I didn't notice when looking in the GG. From now on I'm going to check that I can see all four corners of the GG looking through the front of the lens before I take a similar shot using the normal bellows. I have a bag bellows but it doesn't work at that focal lengths equal to or greater than 240mm.

I'm going to reshoot it at first opportunity.

Thomas

[Kimberly Anderson]

Framed this tonight. Going in a group show in Feb.

128633

[tgtaylor]

Went back out and reshot the Windjammer but this time I set the tripod right in front of the catwalk instead of behind it and the foresail issue disappeared. Exposure was 1/15 second at F-45 on Delta 100 which gave it a 1/3 stop extra exposure. The negative developed fine with no vignette problems - it may have been that I failed to close the camera properly which caused the issue in the first place as everything went smooth yesterday. I've learned that the bellows must "snap" into place when closing or there will be issues.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's the print which I will probably title Windjammer

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/16214235289_1291cc8c28.jpg

I'm quite satisfied with it and will mount and frame it this weekend. For an introduction to the ships history, see http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/balclutha-history.htm. The Balclutha appeared in the 1935 film Mutiny on the Bounty starring Clark Gable which won best picture of the year award. This movie is being broadcast this Saturday night on PBS in California (KQED) so if you have the chance to watch it look for the Balclutha.

Thomas

[Barry Kirsten]

Exceptional image. Good luck with the show.


Framed this tonight. Going in a group show in Feb.

128633

[mdm]

Looks good to me tgtaylor. There is something about the quality of the midtones with delta 100. It's my favourite film.

[tgtaylor]

Thanks David.

Delta 100 is a perfect film for alternative processes that require an increased Dmax. I've been using it for 8x10 ever since I got into that format. The negative for the above was rotary processed with D-76 1:1 for 22.5 minutes at 68F. I switched to Xtol years back but still had 2 1-liter packs of D-76 remaining a couple of years past the printed expiration date that I never used so instead of mixing up 5 liters of Xtol in December I mixed those and drained the tank for processing this negative. The ships wood planking printed-out exquisitely. The only thing remaining now is to mount and frame it. I have a spot on the wall for it.

That feeling of satisfaction that you get when the finished product meets your expectations is soon damped by the realization that the search for a new subject to take its place will soon begin and (I) don't have a clue of where or what.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Well it's framed and looks beautiful. Now to find its replacement....

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Well good news this morning: One of my salt prints was selected for inclusion in an exhibition of 75 alternative works.

Thomas

[Ramiro Elena]

Congrats Thomas! Out of curiosity, do you intentionally delete the images posted here? I cannot see any of them anymore.:(

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Ramiro.

Yes I deleted them but one is still riding on flicker's server.

Thomas

[Shailendra]

Congrats, well deserved!

[Ramiro Elena]

I have a bottle of gelatin/salt that's a month old kept in the fridge. Do you think it is still good to use or should I make a new batch?

[photojeff3200]

I'd make new salt solution. It's so cheap and easy to make why take the chance. I was back in the studio the other day and my salt/gelatin solution had mold in it. It was only a few weeks old but not refrigerated.

[tgtaylor]

Here's an interesting take on a popular Yosemite venue:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/16453998100_71bac6f61a.jpg

For now I'm titling it Cyclops (Mt. Watkins from Mirror Lake, Yosemite National Park, 2015). After a cursory search on the internet I haven't found an image that so clearly shows the prominent crevice. Maybe that's because other photographers avoided photographing when the sun moved into position to cast a shadow. I was so busy watching for tourists walking in the scene that I never noticed it until I had printed the negative :). No visible in the above but the print clearly shows detail inside the crevice. Taken with a 300mm Nikkor-M on a Toyo 810MII.

Thomas

[andreios]

Thomas, it is a beautiful print...

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Andreios. The print sat for two days propped up on top of the microwave until I decided to matt and mount it. For some reason they all look better when mounted.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's an interesting take on a popular Yosemite venue:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/16453998100_71bac6f61a.jpg

For now I'm titling it Cyclops (Mt. Watkins from Mirror Lake, Yosemite National Park, 2015). After a cursory search on the internet I haven't found an image that so clearly shows the prominent crevice. Maybe that's because other photographers avoided photographing when the sun moved into position to cast a shadow. I was so busy watching for tourists walking in the scene that I never noticed it until I had printed the negative :). No visible in the above but the print clearly shows detail inside the crevice. Taken with a 300mm Nikkor-M on a Toyo 810MII.

Thomas

After the daily workout today I decided to retitle this work as Ash Wednesday (Mount Watkins from Mirror Lake. Yosemite National Park, 2015. "Cyclops" sounds a little too harsh and the negative was shot on the 17th (Mardi Gras!) the day before Ash Wednesday.

Thomas

[Harold_4074]

That's a lovely picture, of something that has been done nigh unto death by "conventional" means. Congratulations!

An aside: The print sat for two days propped up on top of the microwave until I decided to matt and mount it. For some reason they all look better when mounted.

I realized a while ago that a good print seems to double in quality at each step of mounting, matting and framing. But for me, the less-good ones don't seem to share the benefit. I have found that mounting a proof print onto a piece of cheap matboard and placing where I will see it casually over a few days lets me make a pretty reliable decision as to whether it is going to have staying power or not. The microwave is a good spot, as is the wall next to a doorway, or my desk next to the computer.

[andreios]

After the daily workout today I decided to retitle this work as Ash Wednesday (Mount Watkins from Mirror Lake. Yosemite National Park, 2015. "Cyclops" sounds a little too harsh and the negative was shot on the 17th (Mardi Gras!) the day before Ash Wednesday.

Thomas

And therefore the crevice on the face of the rock can be taken as a little bit of ash on the forehead...

[tgtaylor]

Pulgas Water Temple, 2014

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/001_copy_2.74135846_large.jpg

I first printed this last year but my salt printing has greatly improved since then and reprinted it last week.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

One of my new ones:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/San_Francisco_From_Bernal_Hgts.107104023_large.jpg

This view overlooks the Mission District which stretches out in the foreground to the downtown complete with its skyscrapers. South Van Ness Avenue is the wide boulevard on the left (Mission Street is two short blocks further to its left) and the old section of the Bay Bridge is visible at the far right in the print. I was quite pleased to find those trees to anchor the immediate center foreground with and echoes a similar composition overlooking San Francisco from Twin Peaks. The print is much sharper with automobiles, both moving and parked, clearly visible along the length of S. Van Ness Avenue. Also the color cast in the highlights doesn't appear on my website.

360mm Schneider Symmar-S on a Toyo 810MII.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

The tonal range of this print is truly amazing - much more so than in a silver gelatin. Looking closely at the print almost every building/house has a different tonal value. I wonder if that range is due to the smaller size of the silver particles - 1/100th that of a SG?

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Another new salt print from last month:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Pigeon_Point_Lighthouse.107114521_large.jpg

The dark band of clouds of a storm front approaching from the Gulf of Alaska stretches across the distant horizon and, visible of the left, is a small white cloud leading the charge. This system arrived in the Bay Area that evening and brought almost an inch of much needed rainfall to Oakland and a foot of snow to the Sierra.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's a new one shot last Saturday:

http://www.spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Mission_San_Juan_Bautista_2.167181602_large.jpg

And the story behind it (scroll down to 17 June 2015):

http://www.spiritsofsilver.com/field_notes

Thomas

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Here's a new one shot last Saturday:

http://www.spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Mission_San_Juan_Bautista_2.167181602_large.jpg

[...]


beautiful print, Thomas. Nice tones and details.

[tgtaylor]

Thank you Domingo.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Here's another new one:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Bridge_OverTuolumne_River.179132906_large.jpg

Actually I shot and printed this image a few months back but didn't mat it thinking that it was too ordinary – just an old-style bridge across the Tuolumne River in Gold Country. But the printing is perfect with a great deal of detail showing. For example you can read the names and titles on the plaque adorning the top and marvelous detail of the bare oak tree branches is quite attractive as is the deep black at the far end of the road. I revisited it and other prints not matted a few days back and decided to mat it.

Thomas

[Paul Metcalf]

It's been a while since I've participated (posted pics) on LFPF, I thought I had posted these before but couldn't find them, so here they are again! Pretty standard salted print process on Arches Platine, I use a coating rod and the sun to expose them. Other than that, I'll have to go dig through my records to remember what/how/when/whatever LOL.

[tgtaylor]

If you are using Ellie Young's The Salt Sprint Manual, be advised that there is a typo in the formula for Thiocyanate Gold Toner 2 on page 58: The quantity given for Sodium Thiocyanate should be 12.5 gm and not 2.5 gm as shown.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

http://www.spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Oakland.63141155_large.jpg

They removed all the oak trees that are framing this shot and are in the process of building some monstrosity where they stood and blocking a full view of the buildings façade. I've been eying this location ever since I first photographed it in 2012 and have never seen the trees as barren of leaves as in the above. Global warming I suppose.

Thomas

[Joe Smigiel]

Paul,

The fasteners are fascinating.

Joe

[Paul Metcalf]

Thanks Joe. That was really an accident of sorts. Because of where I live, I keep everything especially bolts, nuts, etc. I poured out the contents of one of my containers (yogurt) on an old mat board looking for a particular bolt. And the image appeared (with a little tweaking of the layout). It was fun working with my Wista 8x10 field vertically!

[t0aster]

It's been a while since I've participated (posted pics) on LFPF, I thought I had posted these before but couldn't find them, so here they are again! Pretty standard salted print process on Arches Platine, I use a coating rod and the sun to expose them. Other than that, I'll have to go dig through my records to remember what/how/when/whatever LOL.

I agree with Joe, the fasteners make for a wonderful image. It feels busy and chaotic yet organized and it creates a nice tension. I would definitely hang it on my wall.

[tgtaylor]

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Quarters_Ft_Point_2015.203141043_large.jpg

I believe, but am not certain, that this is the non-commissioned officers quarters at Fort Point in San Francisco. It was taken, developed, printed, and matted this week.

Thomas

[Ilford4ever]

Great thread! I am new to the salt printing. Is there formula/recipe to get blackish tones in the image instead of the browns? Thanks!

[koraks]

Good toning can be applied to shift the tone to a more neutral black with increased dmax.

[tgtaylor]

A new printing of a negative I shot 3 years ago:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Java_House.213225104_large.jpg

Back then the push to bring the Golden State Warriors basketball team to San Francisco began in earnest and the plan was to build them a stadium on the Embarcadero right where Red's is located. In an interview with the evening news, the proprietors thought it was a done deal and they would loose their waterfront location. Thinking that the time was right to photograph this structure before it was torn down, I set up my Toyo 810G with a 360mm lens right in front of the entrance and took this view.

Sometime later they had located a new location about 600 feet from the current so they wouldn't have to leave the waterfront after all. Then public opposition to the proposed stadium on the Embarcadero eventually killed that idea and a new stadium is now planned in the Mission Rock area - near the new UCSF campus there. But it's not a done deal yet.

Thomas

[j.e.simmons]

Great thread! I am new to the salt printing. Is there formula/recipe to get blackish tones in the image instead of the browns? Thanks!
I experimented at one time with using KBr (potassium bromide) as the salt. It created a print and the tone was black. I didn't experiment enought to learn if good images are possible. I also found the KBr paper to be faster than NaCl papers. All of this is in line with the difference between bromide only enlarging papers and chloride only contact printing papers. It might be worth more experimentation.
juan

[tgtaylor]

I'm thinking about waxing my prints with beeswax and lavender oil. Any input on this?

Thomas

[koraks]

I tried just beeswax once but it became a big mess. I found a good way to get a nice gloss is to size the paper heavily with gelatin.

[photojeff3200]

Waxing prints with beeswax and lavender oil adds more depth to the blacks and gives a nice satin finish to the print. Waxing is a must in my book! Make sure you tape down the print, you don't want to catch an edge while waxing. You can use Renaissance Wax Polish as an alternative.

[tgtaylor]

Thanks for the replies.

When I picked-up about 1lb of yellow beeswax yesterday afternoon I noticed that they also had cakes of a brown beeswax. I understand that there is a white beeswax also but I didn't see any there. From the web Beeswax is permanently damaged and turns a chocolate brown colour at about 120° C so it doesn't appear that using the brown would work. I wonder if the color of the beeswax (yellow or white) would make a difference?

Thomas

[Randy]

Would using wax be beneficial to the appearance of cyanotypes as well? I have just been wondering if there was something that could be used to coat them to give a semi gloss look.

[photojeff3200]

I was told to use only white beeswax. I can only assume that yellow beeswax would partially obscure the print and affect the over all tone. I mix my beeswax and lavender oil in a dedicated, small, non stick pan that I got from target for $10 bucks. Whenever I wax prints I heat up the solid beeswax/lavender in the pan and dip some cheese cloth in the warm wax and start rubbing it on the print, then wipe off the excess. I take the pan off the heat and wrap in plastic when cool, otherwise dust will fall into the wax and end up on the print. If the wax is to hard than add oil, if it's to soft add wax, it's not an exact science. I bet it will work on cyanotypes too. It will NOT work on photogravures though, learned that the hard way.

[photojeff3200]

Beeswax won't give you a semi gloss look. Although Renaissance Wax Polish might.

[photojeff3200]

Here's a picture I did this weekend. It's a 12x12 inch wet plate negative that I shot on a B&J 8x10 camera that I converted to a 12x20. I find myself using the 12x12 square format about 90% of the time. I'm just loving the square compositions. I might reconfigure the camera to 12x12 someday, making it lighter, it's about 30 pounds and the tripod struggles to keep it stable.

45 minute under lamps and tracing paper
Arches Platine
gold toned
Ellie Young formulas
138167

[tgtaylor]

Thanks for your posts Jeff. I visited your website and followed the link to Borut Peterlin's youtube presentation on salt printing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIelWRTJTFE At the end he waxes the print with yellow beeswax mixed with lavender oil and it does indeed increase the dmax and leaves thee print with a nice velvety sheen.

Thomas

[photojeff3200]

Yeah, Borut is an amazing guy and will respond to emails if you have questions about the process. I did notice he used yellow beeswax too, yellow and white all being equal but in my POP printing class I was told only to use white. I'm not sure why as both colors are archival. I just got a jar of renaissance wax and I'm going to try that instead. I like the traditionalist approach of beeswax but you really can mess up the paper fibers if you're not careful. Renaissance wax is used by the British museum and restoration specialists.

[tgtaylor]

Here is a recent and very interesting find in the Oakland hills that I decided to print as a salt print:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Dunsmuir_House.230222550_large.jpg

You can find more information here: http://spiritsofsilver.com/field_notes

Your comments are welcomed.

Thomas

[ImSoNegative]

been practicing salt printing, I used an 8x10 negative that was about 4 years old and in very bad shape

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5809/20291602883_3b06643681_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wV6LA8)Nicole. salt print (https://flic.kr/p/wV6LA8) by john golden (https://www.flickr.com/photos/126756312@N03/), on Flickr

[tgtaylor]

New Work:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Meek_Mansion_3.250232935_large.jpg

Historical Background:

http://spiritsofsilver.com/field_notes

Thomas

[Roger Thoms]

Nice one Thomas, another building you might like if you haven't photographed it already is Mills College in Oakland. http://www.midstateconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/mills.jpg

Roger

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Roger. I'm going to check that building out.

I just updated the field note to include a further link on Henderson Lewelling which discusses his conversion to Spiritualism upon arriving in Milwaukie, Oregon, and his attempt to establish a Utopian "Free Love" community in Central America. The father-in-law was clearly the more colorful of the two but I didn't want him to dominate the field note so I didn't discuss the spiritualism and free love aspects which also were not discussed in the Iowa link but I went in this morning and added a link that does.

Thomas

[koraks]

Thomas, great print once again, I always enjoy (and envy!) your salt prints!

Just out of curiosity: how come they're all so yellow? In the few times I messed about with salt printing, I never got anything close to the hues I always see in your pictures. It's also in the matting; is it possible it's a white balance thing in the digital capture of the prints?

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Koraks. No use in envying them though when you can do just as good or even better with practice.

As far as the color, I tone mine with gold and platinum (silver + gold + platinum is the Holy Trinity of silver printing!) so there is a tone on them which I try to convey by shooting them in color with my Canon G9 P&S lighted with two 500 watt soft boxes. The color looks terrible in the camera and I try to correct for it with PS CS3. Ordinary photos taken with that camera turn out looking "correct" color-wise and I've never learned how to white balance it. I'm going to dig out the manual for thaat and see. I download from the camera to my laptop where I apply the color balancing with CS3. I think that I have concentrated too much on getting the white of the window mat correct and on this last one I also worked on the mid-tones. However the laptop itself is not profiled for color and neither is my desktop monitor which is a generic Dell monitor which came bundled with the PC. It replaced my big Lacy monitor which I put in storage and I routinely profiled it with Monoco but the Dell is not a CRT and doesn't have the adjustment capabilities as the Lacy. Soooo, I need to bite the bullet here and get a good quality modern monitor and color program as the prints look much better in person than on the web.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

I just visited my website on the desktop and the colors in the salt print gallery look ok. Sometimes I get a pronounced yellow highlight esp in the mat and other times I don't. But I never noticed any off color in the silver gelatin or c-print gallery: both silver
prints (the Japanese Lantern and Palace of Fine Arts) were toned with Nelson's Gold toner) and they have always looked just like the print - same with the C-prints. I wonder what's going on here?

Thomas

[Jim Noel]

Thomas,
Do you really tone with gold and platinum, or is it gold and palladium which give me the same tints?

[tgtaylor]

Yes Jim, I've been using platinum and not palladium. I have palladium though and have been thinking of trying it. Palladium is said to impart a different color than platinum and it will be interesting to see the difference.

Thomas

[koraks]

Thomas, thanks for your explanation of your digital work flow, I think it explains why I'm seeing your prints in hues that they probably aren't in person. Looking at your salt print gallery on your website, the color of the prints and the mattes ranges from neutral to very yellow. I'm currently posting this from an Android phone so I'd have to check on a different screen to see what's up, but it is apparent that there are large differences in the white balance (I assume) of the different images in your salt print gallery. Particularly your more recent images show this yellow coloration that I think isn't there in the original prints.

[tgtaylor]

OK, I've found my mistake: I didn't set the little G9 for tungsten lighting so that's why I have been getting the strange color casts upon download. I wonder why it didn't occur with the color or the B&W prints? The only thing that I did different was shoot them with 1000 watt Photoflex Mogul bulbs instead of the 500 watt ones.

Thomas

[mylek]

Any ratio for the Bee wax/Lavender oil mixture?
I'm trying to waxed Ziatype and salted prints but it is not easy maybe i don't put enough oil.

Regards!

[tgtaylor]

I tried it with throw-a-ways on Bergger Cot 320 and it didn't work: The wax just dried and smeared on the paper. I read somewhere, but can't remember now, that the wax method works only with certain types of paper.

Thomas

[jharr]

One of my first salt prints from 4x5 negative (Delta 100 in Adonal 1:100)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5783/21178557448_debe58bc8d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ygtDhd)
Salt-Print--001 (https://flic.kr/p/ygtDhd) by James Harr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrlequin/), on Flickr

More info here:
http://jamesharrphoto.blogspot.com/2015/09/my-first-salt-print.html

[tgtaylor]

Nice print James! Why did you choose a 4% salt concentration?

Thomas

[jharr]

Nice print James! Why did you choose a 4% salt concentration?

Thomas

Thanks Thomas.

Hmm... I hadn't thought about the concentration that way. It's 2% NaCl (20g/L) and 2% Na Citrate. I thought that was a 2% salt solution with the citrate preservative, but they are both salts, so I guess it could be 4%. Though the 'active' ingredient in the salt solution is the Cl- ion, and that is there at 2%. I looked at so many recipes that I can't exactly remember where or if there was something I decided was definitive, but something close can be found here (http://albumen.conservation-us.org/library/monographs/reilly/chap3.html) and there is something similar in The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes (Ch. 2) by Christopher James.

At any rate, I am under the impression that there just needs to be an excess of silver compared to salt. Since I am using 12% silver, I have some wiggle room as far as salt concentration goes. Having said all of that, I am a rank amateur at this and critiques of my process are welcome, though I am pretty happy with my initial results.

[tgtaylor]

Yeah, I read that too quickly. I was thinking salt, salt. I'm glad that I made that mistake, though, and got your correction. I never thought of using sodium citrate and your correction with cite from the Reilly book: "The addition of a neutral citrate will cause the prints to be more reddish in color and slightly more "brilliant." However, the porosity of the rawstock will still be the largest single factor in the resultant prints." is something that I may use in the future. One learns something every day in photography!

Last weekend I shot a series of negatives to print as Van Dyke brown prints and Kallitypes. I just finished mixing the two sensitizers (along with crocein scarlet for a small pin hole in one of the negatives) and will start printing them this weekend when the sensitizers cure. The negatives and subject matter is also suitable for salt printing and it will be interesting to see what process best represents the subject.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

I made the first print (a Kallitype) this afternoon and left it untoned. When I put it in the dryer to dry I thought that I would have to reprint it again adding a little dichromate to increase the Dmax but it dried down to the correct Dmax so tomorrow I'll print the same negative as a Van Dyke and again leave it untoned. Rain moves in on Sunday to Monday so hopefully I'll be able to print a salt print of the negative on Tuesday and also leave it untoned. Then I'll repeat the sequence but this time toning them in the same toner. I'm calling this experiment "The Great American Salt, Kallitype, and Van Dyke Shoot-Out."

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

The Van Dyke brown print came out perfect. Like the Kallitype, only more so, I thought that I would have to reprint it for a higher Dmax but it dried down to the perfect Dmax. At this pont the Van Dyke is looking like the clear winner with this subject matter which, I confess, I had expected. The salt print is up next after the rain has passed. I've decided to re-title the experiment as The great alternative print shoot-out! and will probably augment it with Albumin, Ziatype, and Platinum prints.

Thomas

[tgtaylor]

Spoke too quick. Although of the same subject from the same negative, both prints are completely different. The Kallitype is more slate-grey and cooler in appearance and from a distance appears to have the more Dmax while the Van Dyke is brownish and warmer in color but (to me) nicer looking close-up. So what one is "the best" is actually subjective...both are good. This is an excellent example of the visual impact that process has on the print.

Thomas

[jharr]

Looking forward to seeing the prints Thomas. Meanwhile, I did some printing today and noticed something kind of cool. A couple of weeks ago, I did some prints and the initial rinse was done in 2% salt in d/i H2O. This week, I forgot I had done that and just ran it under the tap and floated it in tap water. Fixing and washing was identical for both with the final wash in plain tap water. Note, I am in San Diego and we have very hard tap water.

Anyway, check out the results with the print rinsed in salt to the left and the print rinsed in tap water on the right.
142025

The one rinsed in salt is considerably cooler/neutral in tone.

[pau3]

Any idea about what is going on here?

158468

It's a salt print. Some unknown Nepali paper. Sized twice with gelatine, ammonium chloride and sodium citrate, with a brush. Generous quantity of silver nitrate. The copy with a single gelatine application was much worse.
Should I go to a third sizing? Maybe immersing the paper in the gelatine bath instead of using a brush? Or just discard the paper? I'd rather prefer to solve the problem, because the paper is beautiful.

[tgtaylor]

Although I have never sized before I don't see why you would need to do it twice if done correctly the first time. Once the paper was sized and dry then I would brosh on a 2% solution of ammonium chloride,let that dry, and then the silver nitrate. I air dry my paper in a dark room face-up for an hour and print immediately.

Thomas

[NedL]

I believe the sizing layer is either not being absorbed evenly or it is being moved during application of silver nitrate.
Some ideas:

Try simple solutions first:
- make sure the sizing has dried sufficiently. Let one dry at least overnight before coating the silver nitrate to rule this out as the culprit.
- make sure your brush is not too wet ( with water ) when applying the silver nitrate. start with a dry brush. What concentration of AgNO3 are you using?

If those do not help, I think you should try salt/sizing in a tray. Try floating the paper for 3 or 4 minutes and then letting it dry overnight before sensitizing with AgNO3.

Finally, if those do not help, then you might try a separate sizing step ( rather than the sizing + salting step you are using ). For this you could immerse the paper in 2 or 3% warm gelatin solution, and hang to dry. After it is dry, try floating the paper on a salt+sodium citrate solution with no gelatin, let dry completely again, and sensitize carefully.

Good Luck! It does look like nice paper and I can understand why you might be willing to go to an extra effort to make it work.

[pau3]

Thanks for your comments. I was sizing twice because I read somewhere (in Internet, yes!) that it was a method to avoid the white patches in the image. My idea in doing so was that the silver nitrate wasn't getting in contact with the chloride, which was somehow too deep in the fibers. In fact, in the white blotches there is some image, but faint.

By the way, I'm using a 10% silver nitrate solution and the same chemistry worked flawlessly with more common papers.

I'll try to size by immersion and to salt the paper in a separate step.

Thanks again.

[tgtaylor]

Found this print hiding at the back of the print rack. I remember shooting the negative and printing it back in 2014 but apparently didn't think that much about it at the time as I mounted it on 2-ply board and didn't sign, date, title or stamp it. I thought about reprinting it as a Kallitype but I don't think another printing process would improve it.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2944/33789900322_c561546035_o.jpg

I have a couple of other salt prints hanging on the walls that I don't think reprinting with a different process would result in a visual improvement - for example Three Brothers on my website. Sure, reprinting it as, say a silver gelatin, would result in a "sharper" with a deeper black and the cloud structure would have a greater presence - it was a much darker and ominous cloud structure at the time - but while it would be a different picture it would not be better.

Toyo 810MII or 810G with 360mm Schneider Symmar-S.

Thomas

[koraks]

Excellent print Thomas! I doubt a kallitype or silver gelatin print would be any better; probably it would just be harsher and not necessarily more pleasant to the eye.
I've been doing a lot of salt printing lately and I've become to quite like this process despite my initial struggles with it.

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Koraks. I've been neglecting salt printing for some months now but going to start adding it back to my active printing repertory.

Thomas

[koraks]

I'm glad to hear that, I've been enjoying your salt prints and I've also learned from a few of your posts when I picked up the process recently again. It's fun to revisit ground you've covered before, if only for the new vistas that you'd missed last time.

[tgtaylor]

I've been adding a few drops of Tween 20 to the Kallitype sensitizer with good results and would like to try for salt printing. I wonder if you would add it to the salt solution, the silver solution, or split it up between both?

Thomas

[koraks]

I'm no expert, but I like to keep surfactants out of my processes as much as I can. Whenever I use them, they tend to create more problems than solve them. And when they seem to be called for, i.e. with certain papers of low absorbency, adding something like Tween or Photoflo doesn't really resolve the issue for me anyway. The exception is albumen when coated with a rod, which I've been doing quite a bit lately, with moderate success. In that case, I find it's sometimes necessary to add the surfactant both to the albumen and (more importantly) to the consecutive silver nitrate coating. With Van Dyke Brown or regular salt prints, I personally see no virtue in the addition of a surfactant, at least with the papers I use.
I can only recommend to try it out. How do you coat your papers? Rod, float or brush, or a combination thereof?

[tgtaylor]

I use a $2 hake brushes that I get from a local Dick Blick store. Before first use I apply super glue around the metal fuerrel to prevent hake hairs from dislodging - of course some do so I check the print throughout the coating - rinse the well in hot running water when finished and store them in zip lock sandwich bags when dry. I must have coated 15 prints with the last Kallitype brush and it's still going strong.

Thomas

[koraks]

Cheap brushes often work just fine, particularly for sensitizers that are a true solution as opposed to a dispersion. I have never managed to get even coating with any brush with salt printing, but with Van Dyke, cyanotype etc. I still prefer brush coating.
Nice idea about the super glue to prevent hairs from dislodging, I might try that myself one time. Currently my favorite brush is a €15 synthetic hake type brush that has coated many hundreds of prints so far without shedding a single hair. I hesitated when I bought it as it seemed a little pricey at the time, but it's turned out to be a great investment.

[tgtaylor]

I bought a Richardson brush, used it one time, and went back to the Blick hake brush. For sensitizers that have multiple parts (A, B, etc) I mix by the drop in a shot glass (shake the bottle, 10 drops in the shot glass, reshake the bottle, 10 more drops, etc). When all parts are in the shot glass I mix the contents thoroughly with a Pyrex rod and quickly pour the mixture in a small petre dish where I dip the brush. Very important to coat with minimal force with just the weight of the brush on the paper. When the paper begins to loose its wet appearance and takes on a pearly white sheen its time to stop and allow the paper to dry face up naturally. I do not try to speed up the drying process with a hair dryer.

Thomas

[koraks]

I always use the hairdryer these days, even for carbon tissue. I haven't noticed any ill effects so far, but it's conceivable that the heat could induce fogging under certain circumstances. Also, the risk of airborne particles may cause concern in some.
Your approach to mixing and coating is the same as mine. Despite what some sources claim, a sensitizer such as Van Dyke Brown doesn't require any ripening in my experience.

[tgtaylor]

One of my best salt prints to date:

Port of San Francisco, 2013.
http://spiritsofsilver.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Port-of-San-Francisco.169105649_large.jpg

It's been on the wall under regular picture glass for over 4 years now and looks like it was printed yesterday. I'm going to replace the glass with museum grade acrylic for UV protection.

Thomas