Speed Graphic - going hand held, what's slowest shutter speed?

[goamules]

Hi, I've shot my speed graphic many times, but mostly off a tripod. Tonight I'm taking the camera to dinner, well, taking my family to dinner. The restaurant has an open air courtyard seating. I'd like to take a few 4x5 shots, it will be the last hour of daylight. My 100 speed film and lens is going to be about 1/60 or slower then.

What is the slowest you can hand hold a graphic and expect no motion blur? It's talked about a lot with little rangefinders, I usually try to stay faster than 1/60, but I have a steady hand and have shot much slower. What about for a speed graphic? I don't want to mess with flash, and I don't want to shoot wide open with a 9" lens, it will be too short depth of field. Will 1/10th to 1/60th be ok hand held, are am I going to blur the shots?

[JerryP]

I've seen motion blur at 1/30th, but I'm kinda shaky sometimes. If you are shooting b&w, push the film to 400 or so and gain a couple of stops. Color, not so much. Flash would be nice, if possible. I use a Crown Graphic 4x5.

[djdister]

Shooting at dusk with 100 speed film and a 9 inch lens leaves you little room for a clear hand-held shot, in my opinion. But if you are a human tripod, then maybe you can get away with 1/30 or 1/60th. Your first approach should be to use a shorter focal length lens, like a 120 or 135mm. The old rule of thumb with 35mm cameras was anything slower than the reciprocal of the focal length should be on a tripod. So the shorter the lens, the slower the shutter speed you could reasonably use and not see as much motion (i.e. no slower than 1/50 sec with a 50mm lens, no slower than 1/100 sec with a 100mm lens, etc). Many could argue that that maxim was just bogus, but again, it was just a rule of thumb, and it generally worked for me.

[RichSBV]

Are you talking about the focal plane shutter or lens shutter? Makes a difference...

I've shot handheld very often with my Super. Shot quite a few on a moving train in an open car of the landscape. I was surprised (and a bit disappointed) to see a small amount of blur in those pics after I got home. Had a brain-fart and completely forgot about motion-blur. Shot them between 1/30 and 1/60, but from a moving train! And the blur really wasn't that bad, and oddly enough in only one direction :rolleyes:

I would say that 1/10 is out for any camera unless you're holding the camera against a solid support. 1/30 is questionable depending on the person. 1/60 can be safe but again depends on the person. I would also suggest 400 speed film! And why not a flash? I use one on my Super all the time and even just keep it there as a handle.

Why not just try a couple shots at the different speeds and see how you do? That's what Polaroids were good for :mad:

Dan, we typed at the same time. Good point about the lens and formula. I missed the 9" I think way too long for handheld at the slow shutter speeds...

[goamules]

Thanks for all that. I just regrouped, and put a faster, shorter lens on the 4x5. Where I was calculating F8 with bellows factor, I'm now at F4. So I should be able to get a faster shutter speed, I'm trying to get it to 1/125. It's a petzval, fast, sharp, but short depth of field.

I guess we've all noticed tradeoffs usually mean one factor will be a big challenge. It's black and white film, focal plane shutter. I'd use the flash, but haven't ever tested it, it's an old 1940s Heiland. So I don't want to add that to the equation tonight.

[Bill Burk]

I've handheld 1/15 with a rangefinder 4x5 and the blur was negligible, I was seated and calm/relaxed.

Make sure to add relaxation into the mix. If you are thrilled with the moment, your heart will be pounding and might need a higher shutter speed.

[jp]

And if you move it away from your face to focus on the GG, and then move it to your face to frame with the viewfinder, you'll be out of the focus because you moved it a few inches back/forth and the DOF is thin. 400 speed film is more practical and would give better odds. A rolleiflex would also be pretty quaint and useful in low light as well if MF is acceptable; I've gotten decent 1/25 sec shots handheld.

[e]

I've shot razer sharp at 1/4 sec...in low fading light handheld..w/127mm...not focal plane..

[Richard Johnson]

Monopod, rest it on a chair, etc

[Michael Cienfuegos]

With a Speed, I find that I almost always have to use a tripod these days, i just can't hand hold it any more. My Graflex SLR's are different, I can hand hold one of them at 1/30 with ease. Holding it up next to my body helps to steady the camera.


m

[Jim Noel]

Between the lens shutter, hand underneath the camera,other hand on top against your forehead, elbow against your side or resting on a table or other solid object should enable you to get down in the 1/10-1/25th range. I did this for years when I carried a 4x5 Speed with me at most times.

[goamules]

Well I shot 3 sheets, I was at 1/10th on one, 1/60th on the others. I did have the rangefinder calibrated for that lens, so we'll see when I develop.

[BrianShaw]

I never did very good below 1/50 using the leaf shutter. Below that was a bit of a crap shoot. With a monopod could get 1/25 reliably, generally speaking. Always used a tripod with the focal plane shutter so no experience to share.

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Well I shot 3 sheets, I was at 1/10th on one, 1/60th on the others.

I know it was 2.5 years ago, but how'd they turn-out? I've hand-held a 10" (254mm) Tele-Optar at 1/500 and 1/1,000 second in Speed Graphic and am a wondering if I could go any slower and still be blur-free. I know your lens "new lens of the thread" was quite a bit shorter, but maybe I can extrapolate enough to get rough idea.

[Leigh]

The usual rule of thumb for roll-film cameras is the slowest shutter speed being the reciprocal of the lens FL.
So for a 100mm lens the slowest shutter would be 1/100 second. A 250mm lens would require 1/250 second.

You might go one stop slower for a 4x5 camera since the enlargement ratio would be smaller.
I wouldn't go slower than that.

As others have mentioned, the way you hold the camera and how you support yourself are important.

- Leigh

[Bill_1856]

Put in a flashbulb (or strobe) -- that's how they used to manage it.

[IanG]

With a leaf shutter and 150mm or shorter lens I'm quite happy to shoot a Speed/Crown/Super Graphic hand held so far it's not been a problem, I prefer to use 1/100 or 1/200 when possible.

It would be interesting to hear Garrett's update :D

Ian

[Drew Bedo]

When I started learning about photography in thr late 1960s, the film speeds were a bit limited, with Tri-X at the top end(400). All color films were much less sensitive. (OK, if someone knows of exceptions, please just let make this point)

Press cameras werte largely used by working pros and the cutting edge was 35mm SLRs. There was a whole bundle of techniques for hand-holding these small bodies to minimize shake and blur. A lot of it comes from those working pros still shooting for newspapers and magazines with press cameras. breath controle, bracing elbows and using an expedient support.

These techniques are all still relevant for using a Speed Graphic hand-held today.

[LabRat]

As was taught to me, flesh/muscles/fat/fluids/breathing/movement/blood pumping/footing of the body causes the camera movements handholding, but the most stable part internally is the skeleton... In one's hands, in the lower palms (over the wrist area) is the end of the arm bone, where the corner of a camera should be making good contact with on the left hand side (but not the fleshy part)... On a press camera with a side strap, the left hand comes in from a lower angle so the bottom of the palm supports the weight from the bottom of the camera, and fingers lightly wrap around the camera body slightly grabbing the inside of the body shell... The right hand is free to operate other controls, or pick up other things, but the right bottom palm gets wedged with the other lower corner of the camera when it's button pushing time... Try to relax your body and mind, have good comfortable footing, exhale, and evenly squeeze the shutter with the just the fingertip muscles...

I find bigger/heavier cameras easier to hold steady, as there is more surfaces to make bone contact with, the extra mass can dampen some more movements, and more to make cheekbone contact with, as long as the camera is not too heavy to hold steady in the first place...

But I find that very heavy metal press cameras with side grips are a real wrist wrecker, and prefer side strapped cameras as your hands are nearer the center of gravity, rotate better, and tend to "float" more in your hands...

Steve K

[Kevin Crisp]

I try to stay at or above 1/125. Sometimes I can pull it off at 1/60th. That is with a slightly wide lens.

[premortho]

With a Speed Graphic, I've gotten some good pics at 1/10th second. But I'd rather use 1/25th. If you can not get a sharp picture at 1/25th, something is wrong with your technique.

[jnantz]

30th/s using FP shutter holding the camera so the bed is on top., with a graflex slr 1/15 or 1/4S
and with a box camera ( delmar or cyclone ) 40 seconds ... if you lead against something, brace your arms
and regulate your breathing, it makes handheld easier.

[Drew Bedo]

30th/s using FP shutter holding the camera so the bed is on top., with a graflex slr 1/15 or 1/4S
and with a box camera ( delmar or cyclone ) 40 seconds ... if you lead against something, brace your arms
and regulate your breathing, it makes handheld easier.

These techniques all help. Its all stuff I used to do with a Pentax Spotmatic and a Leica M-3 back in the 1970s and all the press photographers in the 1930s.

Also a bit like positional target shooting.