PDA

View Full Version : Is Ansel Adams' The Print a good beginner's bible?



ChrisBCS
17-Aug-2014, 06:06
...for darkroom printing black and white today?

Sal Santamaura
17-Aug-2014, 07:03
In my opinion, yes. However, it is necessary that a reader/student:


Have good language comprehension skills
Be persistent and willing to make prints, think, re-read and try again
Not expect an Internet chat-type experience where "answers" are spoon fed.

In other words, if you're OK with work, I know of no better book about printing to start with.

vinny
17-Aug-2014, 07:15
Yes.
Another good book to have in general is "way beyond monochrome".

Jon Shiu
17-Aug-2014, 07:34
I would recommend Henry Horenstein's books: Black and White Photography: A Basic Manual, and Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual. Much more accessible.

Jon

Bruce Watson
17-Aug-2014, 07:36
...for darkroom printing black and white today?

Yes. Some would argue that it's the book.

paulr
17-Aug-2014, 07:39
I remember liking it. Probably most helpful if you think of it as a primer and not a bible. Especially concerning AA's esthetic opinions and assumptions (all of which are rooted in a time long ago, and subject to much debate).

The technical examples may be a bit frustrating to a contemporary student, since so many of the materials he mentions don't exist anymore.

David Karp
17-Aug-2014, 07:55
In addition, I recommend an older or current version of Carson Graves' Elements of Black and White Printing. More nuts and bolts. A good companion to the AA book.

LF_rookie_to_be
17-Aug-2014, 08:11
Jack H. Coote's Monochrome Darkroom Practice (https://archive.org/stream/IlfordMonochromeDarkroomPractice#page/n0/mode/2up)

Mark Woods
17-Aug-2014, 08:32
When I first got into B&W photography, I read the Negative and did all of the exercises, then I read the Print and did all the exercises. It's a great foundation, and as Paulr said, a lot of the items he mentions don't exist. You can still make it work.

ChrisBCS
17-Aug-2014, 08:44
Thank you everyone! Reading these threads and the books has me getting even more excited.

Jim Noel
17-Aug-2014, 09:38
Definitely yes for s person who is willing to read it carefully at least twice and follow the suggestions closely. It is the book from which all others have deviated whether they admit it or not. Unless you are very technically oriented get the "New Ansel Adams Photography Series", not the original black bound ones.
Even though Polaroid is no longer around, "Polaroid Photography" fromthe same series contains a lot of valuable information.

Peter Lewin
17-Aug-2014, 10:11
While I have, in fact, both the earlier and later editions of AA's series, I found them hard going when I was a beginner. A much more accessible book might be Fred Picker's "Zone VI Workshop." While it is probably long out-of-print, I took a quick peek on Amazon, and they have something like 25 used copies available (and cheap!). I would ignore Picker's equipment suggestions in the back of this thin (110 page) book, but the chapters on metering, film processing, and printing are very good. The only proviso is that you really need to do the exercises to get the benefit, but most of us have done these (or similar) to determine film speed, development times, and so on.

Edit: A quick addition. In the Ansel Adam's "mode," his book "Examples, the Making of 40 Photographs" is also worth a look, in terms of how he visualized and thought through photographs before he actually tripped the shutter.

Keith Tapscott.
17-Aug-2014, 10:16
...for darkroom printing black and white today?I recommend this book to anyone starting out B&W printing in the darkroom.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frosts-Simple-Black-White-Photography/dp/071531632X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408295668&sr=8-1&keywords=lee+frost%27s+simple+art+of+black+and+white

Heroique
17-Aug-2014, 10:47
"The Print" is also excellent on first principles concerning post-darkroom work.

Namely – spotting, etching, matting, signing, framing, lighting, presentation, storage, shipping, etc.

It's a classic w/ its siblings, "The Camera" and "The Negative" – and its cousin, "Polaroid Land Photography." Beginners who start with these books keep them on their shelves, and return to them, even after they become experts.

neil poulsen
17-Aug-2014, 11:25
Get all three, in the hardback version. They are excellent. I still refer to mine on occasion.

lfpf
19-Aug-2014, 14:02
Read print read print read print some more. All good.

In addition to the AA series consider a wide-ranging freebee: Neblette, Photography, its materials and processes, 1952
https://archive.org/stream/photographyitsma00innebl#page/10/mode/2up

Steve

Drew Wiley
19-Aug-2014, 15:12
All the specifics in terms of film, paper, and equipment will of course be out of date, and these were written back when variable-contrast papers were not as dominant as they are today. But there's still a lot of general information which remains useful. As others have suggested, get the companion volumes, including "Examples".

marfa boomboom tx
20-Aug-2014, 07:57
well, if you must, then you must..
a little Ansel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZihHDJgK3E

BradS
20-Aug-2014, 10:02
I would recommend Henry Horenstein's books: Black and White Photography: A Basic Manual, and Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual. Much more accessible.

Jon

Heartily agree. Ansel's books are good but they are a bit arcane. I would definitely NOT recommend them for beginners. The Craft of Photography by David Vestal is also an excellent guide and well within the reach of a beginner.

lfpf
21-Aug-2014, 16:52
All the specifics in terms of film, paper, and equipment will of course be out of date, and these were written back when variable-contrast papers were not as dominant as they are today. But there's still a lot of general information which remains useful. As others have suggested, get the companion volumes, including "Examples".
The title, Is Ansel Adams' The Print a good beginner's bible? infers a search for system fundamentals. Fundamentals are constant and these fundamentals are the subject of numerous classic publications regardless of subsequent developments. Also, printing is only one part of a comprehensive system and knowing all system aspects will lead to more enjoyable printing, the point of the comprehensive process.

True, latest individual components are available since pub date 1952, certain earlier components are no longer manufactured (some are available used/NOS, see "For Sale/Wanted") while the subject fundamentals remain constant. Referring to a series of classic publications on fundamentals ("Materials and Processes") as "out of date" misleads an individual searching for constant fundamentals.

When "variable-contrast" printing papers are an interest, the fundamentals remain constant and useful (as you noted) and VC information does not vary from the fundamentals. VC papers are coated with two emulsions to reduce production costs. Fundamentals are spectral response/emulsion contrast. Not new, but makes printing somewhat different.

Thanks for your note and have fun printing.

Best,

lfpf

Peter De Smidt
21-Aug-2014, 18:13
I would start with Way Beyond Monochrome. It's the most current serious work. Some things advocated in otherwise good older texts don't work so well anymore, such as light selenium toning to enhance image permanence. Mind you, Adams' books should be available at most libraries. Tim Rudman's book is also excellent: http://www.amazon.com/The-Photographers-Master-Printing-Course/dp/0240803248

Mark Sampson
21-Aug-2014, 18:22
Adams revised this series of books, with help, c.1981. Even though they are now 30+ years old, they are still quite useful, and are a definite improvement in readability and usability over the earlier 1950s-60s editions. I treasure my early editions, but in some senses they are artifacts like his 1934 'Making A Photograph'. Of course there are many good suggestions in the thread; I would recommend my old teacher David Vestal's "The Aart of Black-and-White Enlarging";
it's relentlessly practical and doesn't try to impose the author's vision on the reader.

John Koehrer
21-Aug-2014, 20:14
Heartily agree. Ansel's books are good but they are a bit arcane. I would definitely NOT recommend them for beginners. The Craft of Photography by David Vestal is also an excellent guide and well within the reach of a beginner.

This is a much more easily understood book for the beginner. Vestal taught photography and has a much more readable style.
The Adams series Is really dry reading. Buckets of information from either.

David Karp
21-Aug-2014, 22:21
I was thinking about your post. I purchased The Print first. Read it and had to re-read it. I was focused on printing in the darkroom, because that is more fun. But later, after I read The Negative, and re-read The Print, I had a better understanding of the importance of a good negative in making a fine print and the relationship between the two.

riooso
27-Oct-2014, 22:35
The whole series of Ansel Adams' , The Camera, The Negative, and The Print are very good. Do yourself a favor after you read them and take a beginning college photography class that deals with shooting, developing, and printing black and white. The professor will guide you through all of it and the connection that you will have with photography will be an eyeopener. Photoshop is just a digital darkroom and what you learn in the darkroom will help you become a better photographer.

Later,
R

Darin Boville
27-Oct-2014, 22:41
While I have, in fact, both the earlier and later editions of AA's series, I found them hard going when I was a beginner. A much more accessible book might be Fred Picker's "Zone VI Workshop." While it is probably long out-of-print, I took a quick peek on Amazon, and they have something like 25 used copies available (and cheap!). I would ignore Picker's equipment suggestions in the back of this thin (110 page) book, but the chapters on metering, film processing, and printing are very good. The only proviso is that you really need to do the exercises to get the benefit, but most of us have done these (or similar) to determine film speed, development times, and so on.

Edit: A quick addition. In the Ansel Adam's "mode," his book "Examples, the Making of 40 Photographs" is also worth a look, in terms of how he visualized and thought through photographs before he actually tripped the shutter.

Just to underline what Peter wrote. The older versions are terrible, hard to make sense of. The 1980s versions were written with the help of a technical writer. Oh so much better.

Read that then ask questions here. You are good to go.

--Darin

John Kasaian
27-Oct-2014, 23:06
I found Ansel Adams' Examples, the Making of 40 Photographs more basic, more inspirational, and more enjoyable to read. The best though, is a purple mimeographed dark room instruction sheet I was given in High School. It's around here somewhere.:o

neil poulsen
28-Oct-2014, 02:31
Get all three books. If need be, at least get The Print and The Negative; and, get The Camera later. Might as well begin with the books that are most authoritative.

My only caution is using his books to understand the zone system. I think a better first book is The New Zone System by White, Zakia, and Lorenz. Then after digesting the zone system from this book, return to the Negative for a more philosophical understanding.

Regular Rod
28-Oct-2014, 04:58
in my opinion, yes. However, it is necessary that a reader/student:


have good language comprehension skills
be persistent and willing to make prints, think, re-read and try again
not expect an internet chat-type experience where "answers" are spoon fed.

in other words, if you're ok with work, i know of no better book about printing to start with.

+1

rr

Will Frostmill
28-Oct-2014, 13:21
I've borrowed and read The Print, The Camera, and The Negative cover to cover a half dozen times. But I only bought The Making of 40 Photographs, and David Vestal's The Craft of Photography. I gave away or sold my copies of Stroebel, and the Illford Manual of Darkroom Practice.

Think about which books I spent money on.

The Print taught me a great deal that I now apply to my current digital work.

lfpf
29-Oct-2014, 08:49
...for darkroom printing black and white today?

Which book for starters? Public libraries are free and most have inter-library loan agreements. Read many and buy those you want to read again. Many are listed in other replies and ain't a bad one among 'em.

When you stay with it, reading will be continuous and will provide answers to a growing stack of questions, with volumes on fundamentals, references, step-by-step instructions and favorites becoming worn. Search chapter subtitles on-line, investigate bibliographies, take a class or twenty. Each practitioner has been guided by their curiosity, necessity and enjoyment.

Live it up and shoot more.

analoguey
29-Oct-2014, 12:15
In my opinion, yes. However, it is necessary that a reader/student:


Have good language comprehension skills
Be persistent and willing to make prints, think, re-read and try again
Not expect an Internet chat-type experience where "answers" are spoon fed.

In other words, if you're OK with work, I know of no better book about printing to start with.

I have started darkroom work only this year - so I can relate to what you are asking!
And my experience so far has been similar to what Sal's listed.
I bought Ansel's series a bit over a year ago - the Print a little later, thinking I wouldn't do it just yet, but the series is written more or less as something to be bought and studied together.

At first read it was too much to take in, the zone system was a mess (before I got The Print), and it wasn't easy to read.
But it's become easier to understand and apply things with actual darkroom work, keeping the notes from them and then going back and reading it.
Also, my assessment of light and negatives has improved leaps and bounds post trying to print in the darkroom (vs sending it off to scan).


Also, buy them, you'll come back to refer to it -easier when you have it on hand, good to see the prints too.

Good luck!



I would recommend Henry Horenstein's books: Black and White Photography: A Basic Manual, and Beyond Basic Photography: A Technical Manual. Much more accessible.

Jon

I have heard many recommendations of this book and Way Beyond Monochrome - next on my list to get.

Drew Wiley
29-Oct-2014, 12:32
I gave away my whole set, except for "Examples", which has some nice images and anecdotes. The whole set is indeed "basic" and worth reading, but once you
do get beyond the basic catechism of Zone System ideology, you'll need to rethink things according to your personal style as well as current films, papers, and
developers, which have all changed somewhat since this set was published.

analoguey
29-Oct-2014, 12:34
Would there be any good equivalents for Colour darkroom printing? Or shooting?

Drew Wiley
29-Oct-2014, 12:59
I can't think of anything even remotely up to date for color printing, or that even intelligently tells you what you actually need to know to expose current films correctly. Best to inquire about that kind of thing on this forum along with APUG, though in the latter case, you often have to wade thru a lot of shoot-from-the-hip BS to get to an informed answer. Sometimes the old Kodak color guidebooks can be found very cheaply in used bookstores, and still have quite a bit of generic information in them that is applicable. But unless you're quite advanced in color printing, your options are pretty limited nowadays. You can shoot color neg film and RA4 print it yourself if you have a decent colorhead, a simple processing drum, and adequate ventilation. Or you have to go the digital printing route via scan, and then output either RA4 using the services of a commercial lab, or do it inkjet. In some ways doing home RA4 printing from color negs is even easier and cheaper than doing high quality black and white printing. Large format sheet film is expensive either way. But color paper is cheaper than premium
silver gelatin paper. Just another learning curve involved, though you do need to be more cautious with color chemistry in general. I wouldn't apply AA's Zone
System to color photography. That wasn't his bag anyway. But otherwise, there is no reason you couldn't learn them parallel. I shoot and print both.

Jon Shiu
29-Oct-2014, 15:29
Would there be any good equivalents for Colour darkroom printing? Or shooting?
Color Photography: A Working Manual

Jon

Drew Wiley
29-Oct-2014, 15:54
Anything ten years out of date concerning color photography might as well be twenty or thirty years out of date. But just like AA's Basic manuals, there are certain
things which will still generically apply, but many other things which have to be completely rethought. Color technique has obviously taken a much more drastic turn in recent years than black and white.

Tim Meisburger
29-Oct-2014, 18:13
The Illford Manual of Darkroom Practice is available as a free download here: https://archive.org/details/IlfordMonochromeDarkroomPractice

riooso
29-Oct-2014, 21:48
Thanks for the download link. Very good information.


R

analoguey
29-Oct-2014, 22:31
I can't think of anything even remotely up to date for color printing, or that even intelligently tells you what you actually need to know to expose current films correctly.
Best to inquire about that kind of thing on this forum along with APUG,

Yes, I would ask here/Apug. Part of wanting to try colour has been some of the posts here and on APUG saying one can do RA4, provided ventilation is taken care of! So it's to your credit! :-D



Sometimes the old Kodak color guidebooks can be found very cheaply in used bookstores, and still have quite a bit of generic information in them that is applicable.


I'll look for them - if not downloads should also work.



But unless you're quite advanced in color printing, your options are pretty limited nowadays. You can shoot color neg film and RA4 print it yourself if you have a decent colorhead, a simple processing drum, and adequate ventilation. Or you have to go the digital printing route via scan, and then output either RA4 using the services of a commercial lab, or do it inkjet.

Inkjet is something I want to avoid, for now, maybe chromogenic(right term?) prints later, but I would want to understand the underlying process well - and at least from the BW experience, I know that learning everything first (the whole process) is a good way to set yourself up for improvement.




In some ways doing home RA4 printing from color negs is even easier and cheaper than doing high quality black and white printing. Large format sheet film is expensive either way. But color paper is cheaper than premium
silver gelatin paper. Just another learning curve involved, though you do need to be more cautious with color chemistry in general. I wouldn't apply AA's Zone
System to color photography. That wasn't his bag anyway. But otherwise, there is no reason you couldn't learn them parallel. I shoot and print both.

And you have a Clean room in your darkrooms - I will be improvising most cases, although open air ventilation isn't a problem - I have cross-ventilated large light tight windows.

RA4 paper negatives? (should probably start a thread)



Color Photography: A Working Manual

Jon

I'll look it up, thanks, Jon.
What would be key takeaways from that?

/OP - sorry about the OT post!

Will Frostmill
30-Oct-2014, 08:10
Thank you for that link, Tim. That's helpful!

Drew Wiley
30-Oct-2014, 08:58
It's fun to read the old books anyway. And by old, I mean even going back to the 30's and 40's. Old Kodak Graphic Arts Guides are interesting too. There are all kinds of basic darkroom tricks and controls that people just seem to have forgotten. But have you ever wondered why so many Photoshop options have been named for traditional graphics precedents? And then there are those folks who who like to glean the old literature to revive old processes. I'm slowwwwly fiddling with Wash-Off Relief, the immediate predecessor to Dye Transfer. But if you want to get from Point A to Point B very quickly in color, color neg film, RA4 and chromogenic paper is the way to do it. Once you've bagged the basics of color balancing, temp control, and simple processing variables, then you might or might not be tempted into advanced printing controls via masking etc, which can easily produce prints every bit as good on a tiny equipment investment as what costs a king's ransom via digital RA4... or in my opinion, even better, because you don't have to go thru a scan intermediate. Just depends if you like darkroom work or not. I do.

lfpf
31-Oct-2014, 07:22
Would there be any good equivalents for Colour darkroom printing? Or shooting?

Color?
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=diy+autochrome

Drew Wiley
31-Oct-2014, 08:28
Sick! Fauxtochrome = pixelated phony autochrome. Next they'll come out with an app that mimics the effect of mercury poisoning from fuming Daguerotypes.
Or maybe they already have. It would explain a lot.

lfpf
31-Oct-2014, 16:20
Sick! Fauxtochrome = pixelated phony autochrome. Next they'll come out with an app that mimics the effect of mercury poisoning from fuming Daguerotypes.
Or maybe they already have. It would explain a lot.

Here is the first US 1906 Lumiere brother's Autochrome patent:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US822532.pdf
"next", who knows. The US 1906 patent for the Lumiere Brother's Autochrome was preceded in France but my French isn't so good.
Here's an introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autochrome_Lumi%C3%A8re
Enjoy reading.

Stoogley
6-Nov-2014, 10:06
Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course is an excellent introduction text.
Another one that is a next step would be Looten's on Photographic Enlarging and Print Quality.

Printing is a wonderful art, just have fun with it!

John Jarosz
7-Nov-2014, 07:44
While I used the AA books to learn, that was back in the day when they were current. And Picker's book is nothing if not direct. He is very dictatorial about what to do, which may be a good thing for a beginner (ie: Don't worry about the complicated stuff, just do THIS to start. )

For current information I really like Way Beyond Monochrome. Of course it also HAS all the complicated stuff in it, so a beginner needs to know what to initially ignore.

But I wouldn't try to read all the different books first. Pick one and stick with it for a year, maybe longer depending how much you work at this. And try to get out and look at prints. You need to see good and bad prints so your eye and brain understand what's going on.

And you need to use a lot of film and paper. Don't worry about all the archival stuff to start. Use out of date paper and film if you can't afford current stuff. Practice, practice, practice.

john