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View Full Version : Question about B&J folder, possibly 5x7 with unusual reducing back



dimento
15-Aug-2014, 04:19
I bought this folding B&J from the auction site recently, part of an estate sale.

I'm assuming it's 5x7, I measured the external dimensions of the included reducing back which is approx 21x21 cm.

It has an unusual reducing back which has a 4x5 groundglass, but internally there is what seems to be a divider, allowing two panoramic exposures on a single sheet of 4x5. So my questions to the better informed, or perhaps owners of these cameras is

1. Is it 5x7? dimensions would seem to suggest

2. The focus is very stiff, I've cleaned the tracks and teeth with wd40 a cleaner/lubricant which has silicone, but the focus is still stiff, any suggestions, short of giving it to a tech?

if someone has a cheap 5x7 back they'd like to sell or part-trade I'd be interested to hear, I'm assuming the mods will allow this as it's primarily questions about the camera, pics below:

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Michael Roberts
15-Aug-2014, 07:08
Yes, it's a 5x7

Check to make sure the gear shaft is not bent. There could also be some swelling of the wood that is creating the tightness. Hard to say w/o examining the camera.

Waxed paper is also a good way to get things moving easier w/o adding lubricants that can pick up sand and grit.

DrTang
15-Aug-2014, 08:09
Yes, it's a 5x7


Looks like there is no 5x7 back though..only the 4x5 with a split frame adapter

Jon Shiu
15-Aug-2014, 08:14
If the focus is real tight, it may be due to the brackets being bent or mis-aligned.

Jon

mdarnton
15-Aug-2014, 08:32
The split back is for portrait photographers looking to economize on film. The studio I worked at in high school used an 8x10 camera with a split 5x7 back for portraits. The camera looked impressive to subjects, but the negs were actually a little smaller than 4x5, which was plenty of territory. If you look you'll probably see another sliding track running the other direction, for putting the split the other way, using a shorter piece of baffle that you seem not to have. The splitter comes out by pushing in one direction against a spring which gives clearance on the other end of the piece to remove it, that end first.

I have this same camera. Mine was unusual in that it was purchased for a specific job where it was used in one spot and only focused very minimally once a week or so, if that. Consequently, it's not worn at all, and yes, the focusing is very stiff. Start by taking some solvent like toluene on q-tips and cleaning off the track, top and bottom, then spread and buff some floor wax on the tracks. That will help a bit. Another thing to check is that the two gears that drive the focus aren't out of sync. When you cross between the fixed and moving bed sections, it's possible to get one side ahead of the other so the back is slightly crooked. That really tightens up the focusing, and can eventually trash the track and gears. Always be certain when you open the camera that you don't get it running crooked!!!! For your stiffness, that's the thing I would look to first.

This is a marvelously stiff machine that doesn't get enough credit because it's so cheap looking. Really, it's quite solid. The base of the focus mechanism is longer than other cameras, making the back stable, and everything bolts down tight. On the front, with no focus there, it's down solid and there's nothing to wiggle at all.

djdister
15-Aug-2014, 09:22
Due to how the split frame back yields two 2x5 images, it seems more suited to panoramas rather than portraits. But I guess in vertical orientation it would yield two full-length figure shots...

Mark Sawyer
15-Aug-2014, 10:01
It's likely there was once a second sliding piece to divide the frame into conventionally-proportioned quarters.

dimento
15-Aug-2014, 12:02
Thanks so much for all the info, I suspect that the metal tabs on the rail may be too tight and there may be some misalignment. Debating whether the cost of acquiring a 5x7 back and getting a tech to looki it over is worth it.

Cheers, d

djdister
15-Aug-2014, 12:44
You should be able to find a B&J, Ansco or Kodak 5x7 back with a bit of luck that will work for not too much money.

mdarnton
15-Aug-2014, 13:49
The focusing brake isn't on, right? That's the lever inward from the knob. It should be up.

Jody_S
15-Aug-2014, 19:38
The focusing brake isn't on, right? That's the lever inward from the knob. It should be up.

From the photo, it doesn't appear to have the little levers behind the focusing knobs for focus lock. I'm wondering if it has an arrangement like my RHS where you tighten one of the 2 focus knobs to lock it down.

mdarnton
15-Aug-2014, 21:08
No, they're there--those little black dabs an inch in from the knobs. The camera is so fresh they're not drooping, though, which makes it even more likely they're locked, by gravity. That's what mine does.

As for the tabs on the channel being too tight. . . . the very last thing I would suspect in a 60 year old camera is an unrepaired manufacturing defect. I think you need to look elsewhere.

Tim Meisburger
15-Aug-2014, 21:27
One thing to check is that someone has not backed the standard off the rack, and then put it back on one tooth racked. Just move it to the joint or a cross piece and check it is exactly parallel. If not, back it off and re-engage parallel. (I recently picked up an old Ikeda Anba for cheap because it wasn't working well, and took it home and found this problem).

Tim Meisburger
15-Aug-2014, 21:44
Also, I have the same camera. Mine came with a sliding 5x7 back, which I dismantled to make a regular 5x7 back. I use this as my 5x7 field camera and like it a lot. I also made a 4x5 back using a back from a trashed Crown Graphic. This is not for the field. Recently, when I was deciding if I could live with the limited bellows length of a Ebony 45s, I decided it was fine for field work, and if for some reason I wanted to do macro I could use the B&J with the 4x5 back, as it has two or three feet of bellows.

Its a great camera actually. Full movements in a relatively light package, and cheap enough you are happy to throw it in the trunk.

If I were you, I would pop out the sliding door and have a regular 4x5 back, then hunt around for a 5x7 back that you can modify to fit. Also, look for an extension rail.

dimento
16-Aug-2014, 01:28
Again, thanks for all the info

Re: the locking levers, first thing I tried, there seems little tension in them and putting them in either position doesn't seem to do much.

Racking out the standard does seem to cause misalignment, I've racked them all the way off, then on again to realign, doesn't seem to improve focussing very much, I may get a tech to have a look as on the left side the standard clip needs to be lifted slightly to allow it to come on to the rear rail, so I suspect some minor damage.

I read a thread on the forum on a restoration of one of these cameras, and it was beautifully done, makes me wonder why they slapped on that ugly grey paint.

I did buy the camera cheaply, so I can't complain, but adding on the cost of a 5x7 back and a once-over by a tech makes me wonder if it's worth it.

Thanks for all the info guys, a wealth of knowledge as usual

Cheers, D

Tim Meisburger
16-Aug-2014, 02:49
For a brief moment in time, someone thought battleship grey perfect. When I remade my 5x7 back I painted the new one with grey primer. No exactly the same, but pretty close.

I first thought about refinishing it. Then thought, na, too much work.

Then I thought about painting it black (which I think would look nice). Then thought, na, too much work.

Finally I learned to love grey...

:cool:

Jim Jones
16-Aug-2014, 06:57
Dimento, if you shop for the extension bed, make sure it has two, not just one, mounting screws. Most have only one for perhaps earlier grey cameras. I believe the extension rails are identical for both 4x5 and 5x7 models. My two screw natural wood finish 5x7 also has extended rear standard guides that move on the rails. The tabs on these guides could have been bent down to eliminate play in the rear standard. If this was done unevenly on both sides, it could bind. If there is no play at all, the tabs could be spread slightly. The locking levers will feel loose in the unlocked position. When pushed down to lock the focus, they should have no play. You can see how they work by backing the rear standard off of the tracks. Like much of B&J cameras, it's a neat, simple, and effective system.

Tim Meisburger
16-Aug-2014, 07:59
Although if you can only find the extension with one screw, it will still work. All you need to do is drill a couple of new holes, as otherwise the size and rack are the same.

mdarnton
16-Aug-2014, 09:14
I thought the extension might be important, but I'm using a 12" lens for portraits, and haven't needed extension yet. When I want to get close, I always use a shorter lens, anyway, for mechanical convenience.

One nice thing to do is get a piece of 1/2" baltic birch plywood (I get it at the Dick Blick near my shop), cut a strip a little narrower than the outside of the rails, a little longer than the distance between the two mounting holes on the bottom, drill holes for both tripod holes, and screw it to the bottom (I'm using knobbed screws so I can take it off fast). Then figure out the balance point with the lens you're going to use, and drill a third hole at that point and drop a t-nut into it for your tripod to grab. All of these type of cameras were made for mounting on a platform of about 6x9 inches, and putting them on a tripod directly puts a lot of stress on the mounting and also is grossly unbalanced. The accessory table can also stiffen up the bed a lot. It's not a big deal, but the camera does handle better when it's balanced.

My other tip is to try using x-ray film. I was pretty lukewarm about anything over 4x5 with regular film, then discovered x-ray. It's a tiny bit of fuss, but I like the look, and the film is basically 1970 prices. One 5x7 sheet for 20 cents???!! I've been shooting a lot more since I discovered that, and I just bought an 8x10 camera last week--something I would never have considered at $4+ a shot for regular film!

John Kasaian
16-Aug-2014, 09:35
You should be able to find a B&J, Ansco or Kodak 5x7 back with a bit of luck that will work for not too much money.
I don't think an Ansco (or Agfa) back will fit without some modifications. IIRC the B&J back is held on with pins and tabs while my Anscos aren't.

mdarnton
16-Aug-2014, 09:42
I have both. I haven't tried, but I really doubt they switch easily. Maybe I will bring my sliding Ansco back home and try it on my B&J, next week, to see once and for all.

Mark Sawyer
16-Aug-2014, 11:01
Finally I learned to love grey...

Ironic, that so many large format photographers who work so much in monochrome dislike grey cameras so much... :confused:

Like Tim, I've learned to love my old grey B&J 8x10. And I'm getting kind of old and grey myself... :)

Tim Meisburger
16-Aug-2014, 18:42
There is a B&J 5x7 reducing back for an 8x10 on sale now in the For Sale section that could easily be cut down for your 5x7.

dimento
17-Aug-2014, 02:17
Hmmm, lots of food for thought. I also have a Seneca improved 5x7 & some parts, it might make more sense to get rid of this camera and Seneca and get a complete and fully functional camera with the proceeds....

Fwiw I have no woodworking skills and don't have any acquaintances that do , I wish I had the restoration bug and more importantly, ability, but there you go...

Thanks again for advice, D