8x10 Wide Angle

[Fredrick]

I know this has been a topic of discussion before, but I didn't want to revive an old and dead thread. I do have some questions that are somewhat unique to me as well.

I would like to get a wide angle for my 8x10 Wista. My 300mm Sinaron-N is a joy to use, but the focal length is a bit tight in some situations. I would like a lens with good coverage, since I use a lot of movements on my 8x10. Weight is to be honest not a concern, I'm fairly young and fit. The lens needs to be good enough for contact printing and enlargements, up to 40x50". Single or multicoated isn't really important, I mostly shoot B&W and I try to not shoot directly into the sun. I have my 300mm which is multicoated for colour work. I don't think a 150mm will fit my Wista, due to bellows - or will it?

-Fredrick

[Andrew Plume]

Hi Fredrick

plenty of people have in the past sworn by the tiny Protar's, really light, sharp but not fast and pretty bright even at f18

you may need some kind of a recessed lens board for a 150mm

good luck and rgds

andrew

[Regular Rod]

Computar f9 210mm gives you great coverage and it converts to 370mm by removing one element...

RR

[Andrew Plume]

mmm, yes, a 210mm is a fairly gentle semi-wide angle for 8 x 10, I have a lovely Symmar which is just right, again it's a convertible

..........now why did I mention 'Protar's'................

andrew

[Andrew Plume]

mmm, yes, a 210mm is a fairly gentle semi-wide angle for 8 x 10, I have a lovely Symmar which is just right, again it's a convertible

..........now why did I mention 'Protar's'................

andrew

[ic-racer]

How wide? Your search will be quite different looking for 240mm compared to what you will have to do to get a 75mm.

[Fredrick]

I don't want anything that is too wide. 150mm is probably going to be too wide, I had a 21mm lens for 35mm once, and I didn't like it all too much. Something around 24-28mm equivalent would be good. That would be 210mm in 8x10, but then my options are quite limited and expensive. I've tried finding the Computar f9 210mm, but to no avail. I guess I'll have to keep looking.

[Ari]

Older Fujinons will cover 8x10.
The 180 W just covers 8x10, no movements.
The 210 W gives you more movements.
Both are sharp and single-coated; look for the version with lettering around the front lens element, not on the barrel.

[Keith Pitman]

The Lens Comparison chart for 8x10 on the LF Home Page list several 210's. Also, an Angulon 210 will be quite affordable and has lots of coverage.

[Fredrick]

Thank you guys. I been looking at the angulons on evilbay, and they were quite expensive. I'll need to see a comparison between a 300, 240 and a 2 10 mm to see how big of a difference there is between them.

[Corran]

I have a Symmar-S 210mm for sale that covers 8x10, just barely...
There's photos on my blog from 8x10 with it. It's a good lens for 8x10 if you accept the limitations. The larger image circle lenses will be 2x or more the price. But I was able to use a bit of movement with the Symmar-S. You don't need a lot for landscapes.

[andreios]

Hi Fredrick

plenty of people have in the past sworn by the tiny Protar's, really light, sharp but not fast and pretty bright even at f18

you may need some kind of a recessed lens board for a 150mm

good luck and rgds

andrew
Could you tell me more about the protars? Focal length / apertures? I am also thinking about a wide for 18x24cm (e.g. almost 8x10) - but I would need it mostly for architecture, especially interiors...

[jbenedict]

165 Angulons are not very expensive. They are like a 24 on a 35mm. A 210 is more like a 31 on 35mm and a 240 is like a 35 on 35mm

I have had both a 240 and a 210 on 8x10. The 240 was a Rodenstock and it covered well. I have a 375/6.3 Ilex and it was a good paring. The 375 is like a 55 on 35mm. The 210 is a 210/5.6 Symmar It is rated as having a coverage circle of about 280mm so there is no movement but it will cover to the corners at > f/22 I have a 5x7 reducing back for the camera and the 210 works well as a normal lens. I just shot it on 8x10 to see what would happen. When making a print, the corners need to be dodged and the resolution kind of falls apart. I compose so that the corners aren't crucial to the shot and it is OK. Now, other than the fact that the overall image looks better with the 240, I don't see a vast amount of difference in the composition possibilities between the 210 and 240. If you need lots of movements with an 8x10, the 210 SA will cover more than anybody's 240. It has movement with 11x14, It is one impressive hunk of glass. I guarantee you will take the breath away from any other LF photographers if you show up at a meeting or a shoot with a 210/8 SA. It's a big, heavy hunk of glass also. I'm not sure that you would have a good time putting it on the front of an 8x10 Wista. I haven't seen many 210 Angulons on the market at any price but, if you must have 210 on an 8x10 Wista, it is a good choice. I have a 121/8 SA I'm using on 8x10 and, at >f22, it works pretty good but, again, no movements and I have to compose and choose subjects just for the lens. It makes a good wide angle for 5x7 where it is the equivalent to a 26 on 35mm. When used for 8x10, it is the equivalent to a 18 on 35mm. That's wide. A 165 Angulon is going to be my next lens for a couple of reasons. My 8x10 is strong but not that strong and I think I want to avoid the 165 SA for that reason. The 165SA is a lot more money, too. The 165 on 8x10 is like a 24 on 35mm and on 5x7 is like a 35 on 35mm. It is small enough and light enough to be a 'normal' lens on 4x5 The 375/6,8 Ilex on 5x7 is like an 80 on 35mm and, on 4x5 is like a 120 on 35mm. Adding the 165 Angulon will give me a really good mix of lenses for the formats I shoot.

Personally, for a wide angle for 8x10 where I want it to look like a wide angle, i'd go for the 165 Angulon. The 240 is close enough to 210, I'm not sure you would see a huge amount of difference between the two. Using a 210/8 SA is like driving a car with carburetors sticking out of the hood that can do 10 second 1/4 mile times. Way, way cool but not really necessary and kind of expensive. But, if anyone wants to to so, who am I to say no?

[Fredrick]

I'm thinking about getting the 165mm SA, but I want to find it at a better price than at ebay. I use a lot of movements with my camera, it's one of the main reasons why I shoot LF. Having a 210 without the ability to use movements, would be too limiting for me - and the 210 SA would require me to sell a kidney. If my search for a 165 proves to be fruitless, I might just have to get a 240. Or the 250mm Wide Field Ektar. Saint Ansel would certainly approve of the latter.

[Keith Pitman]

Thank you guys. I been looking at the angulons on evilbay, and they were quite expensive. I'll need to see a comparison between a 300, 240 and a 2 10 mm to see how big of a difference there is between them.

Note that I suggested an Angulon not a Super Angulon. The Super Angulons are different lenses and are much more expensive.

[Fredrick]

Note that I suggested an Angulon not a Super Angulon. The Super Angulons are different lenses and are much more expensive.
The Angulon only has a 300mm image circle at f/16. That seems inadequate for my use, unfortunately.

[Alan Gales]

I own a 14" (355.6mm) Commercial Ektar and a 250mm f/6.7 Fujinon lens. The Commercial Ektar feels like a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera and the 250mm feels like a 35mm lens. When I used to shoot a 35mm Contax I owned both 50mm and 35mm lenses and they were spaced far enough for me. I would think a 210mm lens would feel like a 28mm on a 35mm camera.

Since you own a 300mm lens I would suspect you may prefer a 210mm over a 240/250mm lens.

[Bob Salomon]

A 210mm Apo Sironar-S covers 810 fully, but barely, and has 3mm of rise and 2mm of shift in landscape mode. No center filter needed and is in a 1 shutter.
If you want a lot of coverage at 210mm without needing a center filter then you might look at the 210mm Apo Sironar-W. It had 29mm of rise and 24mm of shift at infinity in landscape mode.

[Daniel Stone]

If you want to have movements on 8x10, and get a wide angle lens, then you'll need to spend some.
An 8.25"(210mm) Dagor can be purchased for $300-$1200, depending on age and if it has a gold dot on it. You could also get an older 210mm Schneider Symmar 6.8, which is a Dagor design.
It'll have a tendency to flare however, as it'll be single coated at best.

Your other option could be a 240mm lens, like a Fuji-A 240/f9, which is TINY in comparison to the large Copal 3 mounted plasmat lenses from Nikon, Schneider and Rodenstock.

The APO Sironar-S and APO Sironar-W lines of lenses are also really superb, albeit expensive.

[Andrew Plume]

Could you tell me more about the protars? Focal length / apertures? I am also thinking about a wide for 18x24cm (e.g. almost 8x10) - but I would need it mostly for architecture, especially interiors...

thanks

plenty of posts to look at on the web, just type in 'zeiss protar'

rgds

andrew

[Ari]

A Wollensak WA 159mm is a cheap and viable option for 8x10.

[Whir-Click]

I have been thrilled with the performance of my Kowa Graphic 210. The lens is a gem: sharp, light, generous coverage for the price, and to me more versatile than a 240mm lens.

The literature I have seen lists the image circle as 386mm. Not as great as the Computar mentioned above, but I find that the K-G's coverage on my Kodak 2D at infinity just starts falling off where my bellows begin restricting further front rise.

I also find the 370 convertible focal length to be a real bonus: wide open it is a wonderful portrait lens with flattering focus and lovely bokeh, and stopped down it handles landscapes admirably. I had SK Grimes engrave a dual aperture scale and this has really served me as two lenses for the price (and space) of one.

I saw one for sale on the forum in June, and it may still be available: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?114471-FS-Kowa-Graphic-210-f9&highlight=kowa+graphic

[Keith Pitman]

The Angulon only has a 300mm image circle at f/16. That seems inadequate for my use, unfortunately.

Actually, it's "only" 382mm:

https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/angulon/data/6,8-210mm.html

[Chauncey Walden]

Yes, Keith, Fredrick got sidetracked to a 165 Angulon which doesn't really make it all the way to the corners with no movements. The 210 Angulon is a different animal.

[Luis-F-S]

I'd do an 8 1/4" Dagor. Try some lenses! Buying them off specs is assenine.

[Fredrick]

I have been thrilled with the performance of my Kowa Graphic 210. The lens is a gem: sharp, light, generous coverage for the price, and to me more versatile than a 240mm lens.

The literature I have seen lists the image circle as 386mm. Not as great as the Computar mentioned above, but I find that the K-G's coverage on my Kodak 2D at infinity just starts falling off where my bellows begin restricting further front rise.

I also find the 370 convertible focal length to be a real bonus: wide open it is a wonderful portrait lens with flattering focus and lovely bokeh, and stopped down it handles landscapes admirably. I had SK Grimes engrave a dual aperture scale and this has really served me as two lenses for the price (and space) of one.

I saw one for sale on the forum in June, and it may still be available: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?114471-FS-Kowa-Graphic-210-f9&highlight=kowa+graphic
Thank you for the info and the link. I'll read some more about it when I have time. I remember that deciding on a digital lens was much easier, there are sample images all over the internet of those.



Yes, Keith, Fredrick got sidetracked to a 165 Angulon which doesn't really make it all the way to the corners with no movements. The 210 Angulon is a different animal.
Indeed. The 210 seems much more promising, but I have yet to find one for sale. I will investigate further upon it. Hopefully I will be able to find some sample images somewhere on the web.

I did find a very useful focal length comparison tool: http://www.digitaltransitions.com/visualizer/visualizer.html

[MMELVIS]

210mm F9 Eskofot Ultragon

Gundlach Radar Extreme Wide Angle Anast. 8x10 6 1/4 inch (159mm) F16

No movements with this one.
BERTHIOT (Paris) 120mm F14 Perigraphe No.3 Series VIa Brass lens with Wheel Iris

[John Kasaian]

165mm f/8 Super Angulon is a wide with movements. They be heavy and they ain't cheap, but they'll do what you asked for. I use a Wollensak 159mm, but it has no appreciable movements to speak of.

[Dirk Rösler]

Older Fujinons will cover 8x10.
The 180 W just covers 8x10, no movements.
The 210 W gives you more movements.
Both are sharp and single-coated; look for the version with lettering around the front lens element, not on the barrel.

Great tip, not many people know this. I use a 180 W myself :)

[Jim Andrada]

+1 for the 159mm Wollensak - I love it. This was taken with one on an 8 x 10 Linhof Kardan Bi.

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