Linhof technar in the flesh

[Frank Petronio]

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/c6/e4/ad_1_b.JPG

For all you gearheads who have always wondered what a late model Linhof Technar looks like, there is one on eBay right now. It is fricking beautiful, expensive, somewhat impractical, and very rare. But a lot nicer - and much more practical - than those silly gold-plated Alpas and Hermes Leicas!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3851081247&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3851081247&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT)

I know that it isn't kosher to mention auctions here, but since I have no participant in the auction, or know the seller, I think my heart is in the right place (even though I think my posts have been pushing the edges here lately, given that someone censored me on the election thread and many here would argue that Republicans have no hearts).

[Bill_1856]

Thanks, Frank. One has to wonder if these really "different" designs were done by some "nut" in the Linhof design department (out of boredom with trying to change the Technika), or more likely a limited production varient of some government/military contract. And I don't really know if I think that it's beautiful, or as ugly as a Kodak Medalist (with the lens extended).

[Ralph Barker]

Certainly an interesting design, although quite similar to the other super-wides with helical mounts. Personally, I'd have to be awfully wealthy to drop that kind of cash for such a specialized camera, though. For "beauty" among the specialized designs within the Linhof line, the little M679 turns my crank with more vigor.


http://www.linhof.com/english/images/kameras/big/m679cc-orang_big.jpg (http://www.linhof.com/english/images/kameras/big/m679cc-orang_big.jpg)

[Bob Salomon]

Frank,

That is an earlier Technar as it has the solenoid release on the lens. The later model did not use the solenoid system.

However it looks, from the picture above, that the solenoid release for the grip is not installed.

[Bob Salomon]

" trying to change the Technika"

Not quite. The Technar used the standard, board and back from a Kardan, the finder based on the Technorama and the grip from the Technika.

[Bob Salomon]

"That is an earlier Technar"

Nope, after looking at the other shots it does not have the solenoid release. But it has been taken apart by someone for some reason. The release is supposed to point straighy up not be at a 90 degree angle to the grip. Someone has put the lens on the board rotated 90° from the proper orientation.

If you win this camera reseve the right for an experienced service man to look at it.

[J. P. Mose]

There is also a Linhof Technar being auctioned later today in Austria.....better bid quick!


http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=25187&acat=25187&_ssl=off (http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=25187&acat=25187&_ssl=off)

[J. P. Mose]

I made a mistake in my prior posting. Bidding has already ended, as the auction is currently being conducted. I bid on the Home Portrait Graflex, which I have been after for quite some time. There are a lot of interesting items BUT the Euro is strong, a 23% fee and 3% credit card fee AND shipping!!!! This really limited me on how much I could bid.

[Frank Petronio]

If any Euros want to buy my cheap American cameras for a 50% markup, I say "Bring It On!"

[jens peter]

SORRY FRIENDS BUT THIS ACTION IS A FRAUD!
This paricular camera was sold by Adorama some 2 months ago, the images on ebay are copys from the original posting. This camera was sold for more than 4.500$ and was the very last Technar to leave Linhof (we comunicated directly with Linhof in Germany after obtaining the camera number from Adorama).
The current "seller" probably noticed the good price on Ebay - copyed the images from the original ebay posting, saved them some months - and are now trying to fraud some less experienced large format photographers on Ebay. Take a look at his feedback - and the feedback on the guy who gives him feedback - then notice his payment terms.....and the hole setup it is quite obvious!

[Frank Petronio]

Oh geez, I think you're right.

Who wants to be first to bid $1,000,001.00 ? That'll get it investigated... (see other threads on eBay fraud)

[Henry Carter]

The pictures in the current Linhof Technar auction were taken from an auction which ended on August 29, 2004. Adorama sold this Technar on eBay for a staggering $5655.oo, attracting 30 bids.
Here is a link to that sale.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3834868076&ssPageNa (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3834868076&ssPageNa)

Compare the pictures and the game becomes obvious. Buyer beware!!!!!!

[Jon_2416]

Jesus, Frank! How many times are you going to try to sell that Technar???

[Frank Petronio]

Jon, it has a nice swing weight and is much more lethal than your puny Leica.

I bid $10,000,001 thinking that it would flag eBay that something fishy was going on, per the suggestions in a previous thread. But I guess my credit with eBay must be pretty good, as their wasn't any warning message and the auction seems to be going forward without a hitch (only at $3000 last I checked, no other high rollers bidding).

If somebody else wanted to bid a safe $12 million or so, we could engage in a friendly bidding war and give this thief a heart attack ;-) Except that if I get stuck with the winning bid, I'll have to sell one of the Gulf Streams to finance the camera. Or borrow some money from my pal Cheney.

[martin_4668]

To please JP Mose.....sell a Locheed plane instead...!!
I am greatfull that someone is trying to stop auction frauds. This is exactly why an auctionhouse where you can see, touch and then bid is a better idea than Ebay.
Of course the number of lots a bigger at Ebay, but I guess many have been disapoited (as well as thrilled) I just think when buying at an auction, as well in a shop - both seller and byer should be happy - otherwise its bad buisness. !!

Technar.....the one at westlich auctionhouse (inc Super Angulon 75 and finder) went for EUR 1750 inch hammers premium, but all of you who have followed this thread propably already know that.

As a new item from Linhof, the Technar isnt dead, its just resting. Its only 6 years ago that Linhof faced serious troubles, and had to downsize and restructure. The Technar will return in a face lifted version....

[Bob Salomon]

"As a new item from Linhof, the Technar isnt dead, its just resting. Its only 6 years ago that Linhof faced serious troubles, and had to downsize and restructure. The Technar will return in a face lifted version..."

The Technar is far from new. It was introduced in 1978.

And yes, an updated Technar was shown to distributors at Photokina under the table. It had rise and shift.

Distributors were not very overwhelmed with it and it does not look, at this time, that it will be produced.

If one needs a handheld camera for extreme wide angle work the Technika 2000 is available, would be less expensive and significantly more versatile. It does not require a dedicated set of lenses as does the Technar, does not need special coned lens boards and has more movement capability and a wider array of lenses including ones the photographer already owns.

So yes, Martin, the Technar is dead.

[jens peter]

The Technar is a light, closed (read: less prone to sand and dust), and simple camera - very much like a Hasselblad SWC. It is easy portable, and If you decide to attach a Grafmatic back, you can even go reportage-style in 4x5 handheld.

I guess that most people who go for the Technar, already owns a Technika, just as users of the Hasselblad SWC cameras normally have another 500 series camera-house with some lenses.

The Technar is a beautiful tool for handheld 4x5 and should not be compared with the 2000!

Long live the Technar!!

[Bob Salomon]

"The Technar is a light, closed (read: less prone to sand and dust), and simple camera - very much like a Hasselblad SWC. It is easy portable, and If you decide to attach a Grafmatic back, you can even go reportage-style in 4x5 handheld."

Very much the same for the 2000. The weight difference is 2.55 vs 2.20kg. However, Technika lenses on their boards weigh less then the same lens on Technar boards. Both are equally subject to damage from sand and dust in use (no more so then any other camera in use).

[Henry Carter]

Mr. Soloman, of HP Marketing, is the US importer and distributor of Linhof products. He is perhaps not familiar with the recent very keen interest in the Technar on eBay displayed by product starved buyers. If he was, his marketing saliva would be flowing. In reviewing his comments on this and previous threads on the Technar, I am astounded by his persistantly negative attitude towards anyone who shows interest in the Technar. If I was the US importer of Linhof products, I would seriously respond to what people are asking for and trying to buy.

Let us review some recent market activity regarding the Technar. The recent sales of Technars on eBay speak volumes, and prove that there is pent up demand.

A Linhof Technar sold on eBay on August 29, 2004, for US$5,655.00, attracting 30 bids.

On September 28, 2004 an older and less pristine Technar sold on eBay for US$4,350.00, attracting 27 bids.

There is now a third Technar currently being offered on eBay, and with 3 days to go 13 bids pushed the price over $3,000 before someone pointed out that this auction was a fraud.

These three auctions prove that there is an interest in the Technar and hence a market for it. Many people have lined-up and shown that they are willing to spend some serious cash for a Technar.

This certainly suggests that there is interest in and demand for the Technar which is not being met by Linhof. It is too bad that the US distributor has not supported this camera with any enthusiasm, an attitude which likely contributed to the demise of this wonderful instrument.

The first used Technar sold for a price in New York that was very close to what a new one would cost if the camera were still in production. This should be food for thought. I sincerly hope that Linhof will consider a production run of the Technar with a 65mm or 75mm lens (these focal lengths are available in focus mounts from Rodenstock). This would be the ultimate large format camera for hand-held wide angle photography. Making viewfinder masks for 6X12, 6X9 as well as 4X5 would enhance the versatility and hence interest in this camera. I would definitely buy one if it was offered.

The Technika 2000 is not an alternative to the Technar. I shoot hand-held with a Master Technika with rangefinder coupled lenses as wide as 75mm, and I would love to have a Technar with a 65mm or 75mm lens for dedicated wide angle hand-held shooting. The Technar is a 4X5 alternative to the 6X9 ALPA 12... I would never consider the Technika 2000 for the same purpose, so stop telling me that it is an alternative to the Technar. It is not.

Please advise me as to when I can place an order for a new Linhof Technar. I am willing to buy from any Linhof distributor anywhere in the world who actively supports and promotes the return of the Technar.

Long live hand-held 4X5 photography!

[Bob Salomon]

"Please advise me as to when I can place an order for a new Linhof Technar. I am willing to buy from any Linhof distributor anywhere in the world who actively supports and promotes the return of the Technar."

You won't. It took over 10 years between the discontinuation of the Technar and our selling the last one to Adorama. For most of that time there was no interest at any price.

We took the Technar to 4 to 6 shows a year from 1980 to the 90's and had virtually no interest at any price.

The community that you refer to would be unable to support renewed production. Just how many do you think would sell with an initial production of 10 or 20 or 50 cameras? Other then the couple you have possibily mentioned to the Canadian distributor?

As for handheld shooting with the Master at 75mm that is all well and good. The 2000 can do hand held shooting with a 35mm and now, with the new helical wide angle focusing system for the Master it can also.

[Bob Salomon]

"here is now a third Technar currently being offered on eBay, and with 3 days to go 13 bids pushed the price over $3,000 before someone pointed out that this auction was a fraud."

But only 5 bidders. The number of bids isn't what matters. It is the number of discreet bidders. And the ones that drop out well below the market value also don't matter. So this current auction seems to be coming down to 2 or 3 bidders. Hardly enough to make a production run for.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Given how much they are selling for, what would be the attraction of a used Technar as opposed to a new Cambo Wide DS with rise and shift, new helical focusing lenses that can be readily purchased, and a similar finder system?

[martin_4668]

Dear Bob

Unfortunately we didn´t met at Photokina, I must have gotten there only a few minutes after you where gone. i was at the booth all week demonstrating Imacon Ixpress backs on Technikardan S 6x9.
If you would just hand over all US/Canadian orders on the coming Technar, I would be very greatfull. I have a few orders already, and also request from US.
I, as you, also stock the Master 2000, but I dont understand why you didnt show interest in a new camera from Linhof. I am well aware that when Linhof shows a prototype, then years will follow until final production....but anyway ??
I am selling Linhof, succesfully.,and Alpa succesfully....why not combine them a little.

As the authorized dealer of Linhof in Denmark.....the technar is not dead

[Frank Petronio]

FWIW, last year I found a Technar seller in NYC who was legit (we planned to meet) and he had a Technar with lens for less than $2000, although it wasn't a collector quaity camera. This is more in line with the prices for the Cambo and Sinar Handy, which are very similar cameras.

I eventually bought a Sinar Handy, and found it far less handy than a conventional camera like a Technika. No easy place to hold the camera while changing films, etc. The Cambo and Technar seem slighty better in this regard, but by then I was "off" the whole genre. I was able to sell the Handy for small profit though.

Bob S. has previously suggested that you could "build your own" Technar by attaching a helicoil focusing mount to a Kardan lensboard, and swipe the rear standard from a regular 4x5 Kardan. Attach the nice Linhof grip and perhaps tap and mount a shoe for a third party Voightlander or Leica finder - all the functionality of a Technar for a fraction of the price. Something a place like SK Grimes could do for you in its sleep, or not so hard for an average handyman to do in the workshop...

Anyway, somebody please bid me up - I'd love to see a $12 million auction here. And thank to everyone sending "yoshidoo" warnings (that's me.)

[J. P. Mose]

Well I really lucked out at the Austrian auction! I won the 5x7 Home Portrait Graflex for 250 EURO including their fee. I had question them about the condition before bidding and it appears to be very nice except that someone attempted to polish the oxidized silver, which can be restored (or perhaps blackened with a chemical or egg whites). I also happen to have a 5x7 Graflex focusing panel. An HP 57 just sold on Ebay last week for around $700 and it looked worn out compared to this one. Needless to say, I am thrilled! Now the shipping cost.......yikes!!! Can't wait to see what that will end up being!

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, I realize it's no Linhof, but for those lamenting the lack of availability (and/or the high price) of the Technar, a very affordable alternative is in the works from Fotoman.

See:


http://www.fotomancamera.com/ (http://www.fotomancamera.com/)

for a preview.

Like their 6x12 and 6x17 models (that I'm currently reviewing), the Fotoman 45FC uses standard current and recent large format lenses from any of the four major manufacturers in Fotoman made focusing mounts. They also offer genuine Schneider helical mounts for an addition charge.

Since Linhof is reluctant to fill this niche, they have left the door open to others. Fotoman has siezed this opportunity to offer a new camera that, even with a brand new Schneider lens and focusing mount, will cost a fraction of a used Technar. And seriously, even if the Fotoman lacks the cache' of a genuine Linhof, in this case the "camera" is just an aluminum frame. Combine with a quality large format lens of your choice (and a Schneider helical if you like) and the Fotoman will be able to produce images every bit as sharp as the Technar - for a fraction of the cost.

Kerry

[Frank Petronio]

Now the crook has jacked the price up in hundred dollar increments by having a faux bidder bid twenty times... this is getting pretty funny.

[Michael Mutmansky]

Folks,

Did anyone ask the previous buyer if they were re-selling the camera? While it might be wrong to recycle Adorama's photos, the previous buyer does have a right to sell the camera, and it wouldn't be a misrepresentation of the product to use the old photos.

I just sent the previous buyer a query to that effect; we'll see what he responds.

---Michael

[Michael Mutmansky]

I just received an email back from the previous auction winner. He is not reselling it. He said the only two photos that are not in the original auction are the ones that show the serial number on the lens.

At the very least, he is tryint to sell a product with photos of another product, and throwing shill bids at the auction to get the value up. At worst, he has a completely fradulent auction . So, I placed a bid on it. I really hate scammers.

---Michael

[Frank Petronio]

Look at the guy's feedback, then check the feedback of the person who gave him his feedback.

[J. P. Mose]

I reported this schmuck to Ebay a couple of days ago. As usual, they are slow to react.

[tim atherton]

Frank, what are you going to do if you have to cough up the dosh....? ;-)

[Frank Petronio]

Like I said, sell the Jet-Stream or ask my pay Cheney for some spare change.

[Frank Petronio]

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Congratulations yoshidoo!

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Dear yoshidoo,

You have committed to buy the following eBay item from livand79 (a

liverant - norwalk, CT United States) on Nov-10-04 13:58:56 PST:

Please review the seller's payment instructions below. Use eBay Checkout

to send your shipping and payment information to the seller.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

LISTING DETAILS

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Item name: Linhof 4x5 TECHNAR + 75mm Super Angulon + finder + grip

Item number: 3851081247

End date: Nov-10-04 13:58:56 PST

Seller: livand79

Seller email: mailto:landrlive79@aol.com

Buyer: yoshidoo

Buyer email: mailto:XXXXXX

-----------------------------------------------------------------

PAYMENT DETAILS

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Item price: US $1,000,600.00

Quantity: 1

Subtotal: US $1,000,600.00*

* Not including shipping charges

[Brian Ellis]

I sent an e mail messge to the "seller" asking whether he was the purchaser of the camera at the Adorama auciton a couple months ago and if not why he was using the same pictures that were used in that auction. I received no response (surprise).

[Frank Petronio]

I guess this should serve as a warning that eBay is totally worthless at investigating fraud. I bid over $10 million dollars and it did not flag the transaction at all, and the only thing I've gotten from eBay is the usual invoice. Let's see if the seller dares to give me a negative feedback for non-payment - my bet is he will be doing another fraud under a different ID - maybe next time for something more obscure.

Maybe Hans Blix got a job in the eBay investigations department? ;-)

[J. P. Mose]

Brian....I'll be if you sent him a message, asking if he is welling to sell the camera outside of Ebay -- you'd here back ASAP! Last March I bought a 350mm Superachromat off Ebay (one of my dumber moves). Following the sale I caught 4 hackers using the same photos. Hasselblad Superwides are a common item to scam as well.

[Peter Galea]

Check the similarities in this auction.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3850850011&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3850850011&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)

[Michael Mutmansky]

Peter,

This one had the same shill bidder! Clearly, there is someone out there who is trying to scam the LF community. People, please be careful.

At least in this case, the shill bidder pushed it too far and ended up with the winning bid. That probably would have happened on the Technar auction, as the shill bid it up to $7000 or so, which I think is higher than it would have gone for as a legitimite auction.

It does follow the exact same MO as the other auction.

I think it's time that people start putting their Ebay auction ID in the photos so that they will be harder to hijack for a future auction. I haven't done this up 'til now, but I will start to do that in future postings.

---Michael

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

This should get real interesting when eBay tries to bill the seller's credit card for the $15,022.12 final value fee.

Kerry

[Jim Galli]

Thanks Kerry, I've been laughing about that since the auction closed. If Ebay won't give him the boot for all the other shenanigans, they certainly will for the non-pay!

[Dan Fromm]

Oh, come on. The seller will file a non-paying bidder report on Frank and will owe eBay the listing fee, nothing more.

Pyxelation, the zero feedback presumed shill, bid on three auctions in the last month. Won one, perhaps by accident, but that one didn't go to the invisible reserve. No harm done. Lost one to a couple of real bidders who wanted the item more. Again, no harm done. And lost to Frank and several others on the third.

As for Prank Fetronio, he can afford one negative feedback, if the seller files it, and a npb report. All he did was inconvenience the seller.

All that said, for a domestic seller to request payment by wire transfer is certainly unusual, at least for photo equipment and strikes me, too, as a red flag. But look at eBay motors, where the request is made quite often.

Cheers,

Dan

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Oh, come on. The seller will file a non-paying bidder report on Frank and will owe eBay the listing fee, nothing more.

Yes, this is true. However, the seller must wait 7 days until after the close of the auction to file a unpaid item dispute with eBay. And then, they have to wait another 7 days for the winning bidder to respond before they can apply for a final value fee credit. Of course, the seller will then have to wait for eBay to approve and process the credit. This is not an instaneous process. In the mean time (depending on their billing cycle), eBay may attempt to charge the final value fee to the seller's credit card.

Of course, a man wealthy enough to own a million dollar camera probably has a higher limit on his credit card than most mere mortals. So, it might not be that big a deal for the seller - or maybe it will be... In either case, I doubt if we see that particular Technar re-listed anytime soon.

Kerry

[Tim Stahl]

What ever happend with this? What has Ebay done?

[Frank Petronio]

The "seller" is no longer a regular user and as the high bidder, I never heard a peep from either the seller or the ace detectives at eBay.

I've bought and sold many items on eBay, but I am getting more disgusted with it. I wish this forum had a buy and sell section, as I would much rather trade for a lower price/profit but know that I was working with known, good people.

[David A. Goldfarb]

APUG.org has a classifieds section. Many of the same people here as there. Also f32.net and the Azo forum at www.michaelandpaula.com, both strictly for large format.