help identify Kowa graphic / computar 210mm F9?

[koh303]

I know there is a huge mess with the naming and actual info of these lenses.
Can someone help me find out which/what this one is?

It is a fairly small construction, appears to be single coated, with a built in lens shade.

Computar 210mm F9 "Lens Made in Japan"

Is this a Kowa graphic 210mm F9? Image circle?
118527

[Ginette]

No reason that your Computar 210mm was something else unless someone change the back cell of it.
Kerry Thalmann indicate a 456mm IC for this lens http://reallybigcameras.com/Kerry/Thalmann_Lens_Sale.htm
Do you have the original Copal 1 shutter with the fStop indications for the 210mm in white and 370mm in yellow?

[Oren Grad]

There's no mess with the Computars. It's the Kowa-labeled lenses where there's sometimes ambiguity as to whether they're the same design as, and share the large coverage of, the Computar-labeled lenses.

[koh303]

No reason that your Computar 210mm was something else unless someone change the back cell of it.
Kerry Thalmann indicate a 456mm IC for this lens http://reallybigcameras.com/Kerry/Thalmann_Lens_Sale.htm
Do you have the original Copal 1 shutter with the fStop indications for the 210mm in white and 370mm in yellow?

Thanks (and to ginette as well).

Indeed there is the yellow markings for 370mm.

I guess this a spectacular lens, but...., there is always a but:
The front cell has some very small marks internally, that look like cristalization, i am guessing dead fungus. Rear cell has side wall cement fail in a couple of places.
So i know neither of those things will ever affect image quality.. its just annoying.

Thats a huge image circle, LFF chart here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenseslist.html notes IC at 325mm.... but i seem t remember the talk about this being wrong due to the confusion with the kowa. Either way it is sure to cover 8X10...

The older style copal seems to have been CLA'd, as it works about 100% better then my best black copal... :)

[Corran]

I thought the Computar labeled ones were the lenses with less coverage?? Could be wrong.

I have a Graphic-Kowa labeled 210/9 and it covers 8x10 and has tons of movements. I read so many threads before purchasing one, looking for a good 210mm for 8x10. I've never seen a definitive list of the various Kowa/Computar/etc. variations and their respective covering power.

Mine has 46mm threads on the outside of the front barrel. Does that hood come off at all?

I don't have an 11x14 to look at coverage. Mine looks just like this one but with silver filter threads, and I'm missing the beauty ring:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171386049069
They claim 11x14 coverage.

Looking at eBay I remember now that there is the Computar "Symmetrigon" that is an f/6.3 and may/may not be totally different.

[Oren Grad]

I thought the Computar labeled ones were the lenses with less coverage??

No, it's the other way around. And the Symmetrigon is a different animal entirely, with much smaller coverage.

This discussion goes back a long way...

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10255-The-Computar-lens-and-ULF-coverage

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10235-Best-guess-Glennview-s-210mm-F-8-lens-that-covers-11X14-is-a-Computar

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?8186-7x17-coverage

[Corran]

Hmm. Okay, I guess I misremembered. That said, what's the actual difference between the Kowa and Computar? In terms of design.

[Corran]

Also, see this post in one of those threads from a guy who worked for Kowa:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10255-The-Computar-lens-and-ULF-coverage&p=777069&viewfull=1#post777069

He says the Graphic Kowa AND APO Computar lenses cover 85-90 degrees. APO Computar though? Is that a different lens? koh303 is your lens marked APO?

[Oren Grad]

Also, see this post in one of those threads from a guy who worked for Kowa:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10255-The-Computar-lens-and-ULF-coverage&p=777069&viewfull=1#post777069

He says the Graphic Kowa AND APO Computar lenses cover 85-90 degrees. APO Computar though? Is that a different lens? koh303 is your lens marked APO?

There's no lens marked "Apo Computar". He's just referring to the f/9 Computars we're always talking about.

But the 210 Computars and Graphic Kowas are not necessarily the same. Read Kerry Thalmann's posts just a bit further up the thread.

EDIT: Sorry, galloping brain rot again: there is an "Apo Computar DL", but it's an enlarging lens which is entirely different, not what he's talking about.

[Corran]

Got it.

I never really cared to identify lens designs so I don't do the "count reflections" business. This 210mm GK shows 4 reflections on both the front and rear cell - one large, one middling sized, and two of equally small size. Oh, and one giant blob when oriented just right. Is this the 6/4 Plasmat design referenced?

All I know is I just put it on my 8x10, raised it to maximum front rise, and I can still see the opening of the iris through the clipped corners of the ground glass even wide-open. I'm sure here the coverage police will interject that "illumination" isn't the same as "coverage" but I know I haven't had any issues with moderate to heavy movements when I've used this lens on 8x10.

[Regular Rod]

I know there is a huge mess with the naming and actual info of these lenses.
Can someone help me find out which/what this one is?

It is a fairly small construction, appears to be single coated, with a built in lens shade.

Computar 210mm F9 "Lens Made in Japan"

Is this a Kowa graphic 210mm F9? Image circle?
118527

That is the same as mine but the shutter is different. It's a convertible and remarkably sharp even when converted to the 370mm. It would be the last LF lens I'd part with. Tiny, lightweight, perfect for long stints of wandering about the Derbyshire rivers with a rucksack full of 8x10 camera etc. Two lenses in one and no noticeable compromise. Image circle? I've not measured mine but plenty big enough for movements in 8x10 and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that folk use them for 11x14 (although maybe with not much movement). Filters are a tricky matter to sort out. Inside on the back is maybe best.

They are not easy to find for sale as folk tend to hang on to them. You have done well to obtain yours...
:)
RR

[Tony Lakin]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?50731-WTB-210mm-lens-that-covers-8x10-format

Might help.

[koh303]

Thanks to all who posted!

[karl french]

Now it's on it's way to me. Does that lens hood unscrew or do I need to use a spanner wrench on one of those retaining rings at the front of the lens?
Looking forward to finally trying one of these.

It's likely my Rodenstock Sinaron WS 210mm f5.6 will be for sale here soon...

[koh303]

:)

You will need to unscrew the locking ring to get the hood off, i am not sure how it is mounted, but it seems simple enough.

[Oren Grad]

There's no lens marked "Apo Computar". He's just referring to the f/9 Computars we're always talking about.

For the record: although the lenses are indeed just marked "Computar", the product literature just posted by John Schneider demonstrates that for marketing purposes, distributor Burleigh Brooks did refer to them as "Apo-Computar":

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10255-The-Computar-lens-and-ULF-coverage&p=1170333&viewfull=1#post1170333

[karl french]

For the record as well, the lens hood unscrews without any trouble.

[Corran]

So, bumping this thread with some practical measurements/information.

I put my 210mm Graphic-Kowa on an 8x20 to look at the IC. Wide-open at infinity, I'm getting a bit of mechanical vignetting, but the image circle illumination measured in excess of 14 inches. That's about 360mm, not the 450+ measured for the Computar.

I need to see if the IC gets bigger when stopped down but I don't have time right at the moment. Has anyone else measured their 210GK IC?

[Old-N-Feeble]

I had a 210 G-K until recently. It was of the original Computar formula... beautiful lens. Mine illuminated 11x14+ and looked very good on the ground glass.

[Corran]

I'd still like to know how to tell the difference, and if indeed some 210GK lenses are Computar formulas or not.

My GK looks identical to the 210mm Computar lens that Kerry Thalmann just sold in the classifieds (which is what got me thinking about this again).

[Old-N-Feeble]

You can't tell by cursory inspection. There's a lengthy thread here on LFPI about this. There are three different formulas... 6/4, 6/6 and 4/4 (I think). You must count the reflections in both sets of cells. I've forgotten which one is the original Computar formula.

[Corran]

I have no idea how to identify a lens construction based off of reflections, I just don't generally care that much about such things. I did post this earlier:

...This 210mm GK shows 4 reflections on both the front and rear cell - one large, one middling sized, and two of equally small size. Oh, and one giant blob when oriented just right. Is this the 6/4 Plasmat design referenced?...

[Old-N-Feeble]

PM Dan Fromm. :)

[BarryS]

I've also got a 210mm Graphic Kowa and it fully covers 11x14 wide open, but without anything extra for movements. So that's about 450mm coverage.

[Corran]

Perhaps some serial #'s would help here, to figure out the relative age/design? I'll check mine tonight when I get back from work.

[Old-N-Feeble]

Perhaps some serial #'s would help here, to figure out the relative age/design? I'll check mine tonight when I get back from work.

Mine was serial number 220411.

[BarryS]

Perhaps some serial #'s would help here, to figure out the relative age/design? I'll check mine tonight when I get back from work.

I'll check mine too. I suspect a lot (most?) of these lenses are the same with some varying interpretations of coverage/illumination and reflections.

[Corran]

Just checked, the serial is 226551. 6000 away from OnF - I wonder how many they actually made?