New production 8X10 field camera from Poland???

[koh303]

(Disclaimer - i have nothing to do with this camera/sale - this post is purely out of interest)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-8x10-mahogany-large-format-field-camera-/151344783985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233cda2271

Seems like this is a nicely made 8X10 field camera, but no details as to who makes it. They have 3 listed for sale, it seems that it is not a "one off" type thing, but actual production.

Anyone know anything about this?

[Drew Wiley]

Cute, but lack of rear tilt would be a deal-breaker for me. And no way to tell how vibration-resistant the front standard is without seeing one in person. Still, ya
gotta commend anyone making the thing. Probably made one for himself and figured that, once the jigs and CNC are set up, just as easy to make several. Poland.

[djdister]

They do look solid, but not to be considered light weight field cameras...

[Brassai]

I actually like the looks of it. Curious they didn't make a 4x5 instead though.

[rich caramadre]

It does have tilt. Not swing.

[Brassai]

Checking other brands (Chamonix etc.) this actually looks like a bargain. I suspect Drew is right--a "handy" guy made one for himself then figured, "What the hell? Wasn't too hard." and made a couple more. If I was in the market for my first 8x10 I'd certainly be checking into this. It's less $$ than a Chamonix, weighs less than a 2D, and looks very nice.

[munz6869]

I like the level on the bottom - that makes a lot of sense to me, as I'm pretty much always standing on tippy toes to look at mine!

Marc!

[jackrosa]

Never heard of this manufacturer/camera before. Not inexpensive!

[mathieu Bauwens]

Check alos at Gibellini's folding camera on facebook.

Made in Italy. I'm trying to find enough money to test one.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Alessandro Gibellini has posted an updated video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlOerp8k5iI

And his cameras are now commercially available. (http://www.taos-photographic.com/boutique/chambres-grand-format/gibellinis-folding-cameras/)

(usual disclaimer, I'm not affiliated whatsoever with Alessandro Gibellini, and not affiliated with any associated retail store).

[tgtaylor]

There's no rack and pinion fine focusing on either standard and jjez, he should have used a more stable platform to mount the camera on instead of the wobbly one used in the video.

Thomas

[Kirk Gittings]

Nice sturdy looking camera with a surprising lack of basic controls. Not sure why anyone would buy one when the used market is so flush with primo cameras of better design?

[Cor]

Totally nitpicking here, but why the silly lab coat, give it more authority ?..(I work in a lab, and avoid wearing these sweating coats whenever I can)..and why did he not put the front standard perfectly vertical?..ditto on the (video) tripod..


There's no rack and pinion fine focusing on either standard and jjez, he should have used a more stable platform to mount the camera on instead of the wobbly one used in the video.

Thomas

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

why the silly lab coat, give it more authority ?

Serious manufacturers of equipement for LF photography have a rule that ALL employees should wear a lab coat, eg: at Schneider-Kreuznach, Germany, 1956. (http://www.photoscala.de/grafik/2013/SK-05_zuse_1956.jpg)

In the last century on the French TV, there was no adverstising for any washing powder without a scientist wearing glasses and a white lab coat, explaining that after intensive R&D, the washing powder as adverstised was unquestionably the best, since it could even wash linen that had been entangled with many knots.

[dadan.mafak]

Hallo,

Here is my review: http://dadanmafak.blogspot.com/2014/05/ito-8x10-pierwsze-wrazenia.html

And here is english version:

=======

Ito 8x10 – the first impressions

After a couple of years of contradictory information, uncertainty and wating it is finally there...! Stanislaw Szwedowski, on the Internet better known as Ito, decided to create an outdoor 8x10 camera which wouldn´t have the typical faults of 8x10 outdoor cameras and be at the same time lightweight, durable and beautiful.
To be honest I did not expect to get to see such a great camera. Opinions one can find on the Internet are often biased by the positive impression of the reviewer-owner and only after buying it shows whether the camera is indeed as good as expected... These are not cheap toys and in my case it took some time before I found a perfect camera for my purposes: it is a Canham Traditional 8x10. In this review therefore, I allow myself to compare some features of Ito´s to the Canham – a camera coming from a completely different price range, anyway (about 4100 $ + custom fees and tax).
Stanislaw´s cameras are made from glued mahogany layers, a fact which assures the maximal wood stability and increases its resistance to time-related changes. This is very important because once the wooden elements of a camera start to buckle they usually need to be completely replaced or at least refixed in a high degree. This is not a nice thing to do... Ito 8x10 is available in three different colours: natural wood, black and red mahogany. 




The design is well known: first of this kind of cameras were produced by Philips, today they are made by Shen Hao and Chamonix. Ito 8x10, though, has two unique features the mentioned brands don´t:
⁃ The rear standard cannot be tilted (it can be swung forth and back, though) because rear tilting causes unpleasant perspective distortions and is used in landscape photography approximately once in two hundred years.
⁃ The front standard is led on two powerful titanium rails.
⁃
⁃ Thanks to these solutions the rear standard is much more stable, the camera gains size and weight, and the front standard is so extremely stable that it far exceeds all outdoor cameras that I have ever known. It can be easily compared in this context to a Sinar „Norma“ (not to confuse with Sinar F or P).
⁃ What does it mean for photographers who like using long focal lengths? For a 8x10 negative long focal lengths start from 480 mm on, at which lens the majority of cameras turn into shaking toys... One starts waiting for the wind to stop blowing, at the same time trying to shorten the exposure time as much as possible. With a filter on and a small apperture typically used in landscape photography (for this particular focal length f45 and more)... it is an impossible task.
⁃ A similar problem can be observed in pictorial photography where using long but tiny and lightweight antique lenses often requires to extend the camera bellows maximally. Only after developing the negatives we discover that a part of them is unsharp. (Unfortunately, even my Canham doesn´t positively stand out here and shakes like a cloth at the max. bellows extension of about 97 cm. One feature helps though, it has namely a monopod support which can be fixed underneath the front standard, and stabilizes the camera. Ito 8x10 has a similar support but I do not think it would ever be necessary. This camera has just an incredible stability.


Also the focusing assures stability: The leverage is small and sometimes it means turning a lot but thanks to this the precision of focus is amazing and and shaking issues could be eliminated. Big applause here!
The lens board is based on Sinar system, so both, Sinar and the wooden lens boards that come with the camera fit without problems.

The focusing screen is simply great. The front standard has individual knobs for regulation: one pair for the up-down shift and another for the forth-back tilt. The two independent regulation possibilities are a useful feature. In many other cameras it drove me crazy to losen one pair of knobs responsible for two things and see that I can´t lift up the standard without changing the angle of tilt. In case of Ito 8x10 (just like in Canham cameras), this is the way it should be done.


Another nice extra thing is a tiny spirit level placed in the bottom (not on the top) – a hard to overestimate feature, usually missing in outdoor cameras where you have to stand on tip-toe in order to see the spirit level situated on the very top of the camera (like in case of Canham). Apart from this one, Ito 8x10 has two more spirit levels placed on the side and on top, as well.

The maximum bellows extension is 80 cm. This allows granting all possible photographer´s wishes. And the camera... stands still like a rock. Just about everything can be done with it: a tight portrait with a 500 mm lens on? No problem... A landscape with a 65-70 cm monocle lens? No problem at all...



It doesn´t matter if you go for a walk with a „basic“ 8x10: a 210 mm wide angle, a 300 mm standard and a 480 mm long focal lens – working with this camera is a pure pleasure. At the 210 mm lens the bellows slightly limits the movements of the front standard – this must be said – but it is a normal situation while using long bellows. Luckily it is possible here to exchange a bellows if one desires to get absolutely unlimited possibilities or wants to apple small beasts like Super Angulon 165 mm or Grandagon W 155 mm.
And all this at the weight of... 5,2 kg... Canham and Chamonix are about 1 kg lighter, but this only at the cost of much worse stability of the camera. Canham offers almost absurdly huge possibilities, while Chamonix doesn´t offer anything instead...

Ito 8x10 comes with a focusing screen cover and two lens boards (shutter #1 and #3). I am now looking forward to hear about the final price of Ito 8x10, which most probably is going to be amazing. If you´re looking for a great 8x10 outdoor camera, I suggest you wait a tiny bit more...

A couple of test pictures coming soon...
At the end: an almost 2 kg heavy beast of Tele Anachromatique 400 mm doesn´t impress the stability of Ito 8x10. This camera could probably handle a 3 kg lens, as well. 


=====

Thanks,

If you have any questions please send me pm or ask here.

Hubert

[vinny]

I can't read the review but the pics are pretty clear.
I like the way the guide rails are attached beneath the extension bed, good idea.
That thin strip of wood the rear extension feet slide on looks like it would be quite fragile. Is rear swing possible with these rails?
The method for attaching the hinges on the rear standard (two screws into the ends) feet doesn't seem like a long term solid solution, hence the method chamonix and philips cameras use(d).
Round off some corners, cut some holes, and the camera would be lighter.
It should have a bail back, at least as an option.
A different bellows material would easily allow the use of a 165mm to 800mm.
What are the advantages of Ito's camera over the Chamonix?

[StoneNYC]

I can't read the review but the pics are pretty clear.
I like the way the guide rails are attached beneath the extension bed, good idea.
That thin strip of wood the rear extension feet slide on looks like it would be quite fragile. Is rear swing possible with these rails?
The method for attaching the hinges on the rear standard (two screws into the ends) feet doesn't seem like a long term solid solution, hence the method chamonix and philips cameras use(d).
Round off some corners, cut some holes, and the camera would be lighter.
It should have a bail back, at least as an option.
A different bellows material would easily allow the use of a 165mm to 800mm.
What are the advantages of Ito's camera over the Chamonix?

Look up, he wrote the entire review into English right here on the thread

[Sal Santamaura]


The design is well known: first of this kind of cameras were produced by Philips, today they are made by Shen Hao and Chamonix. Ito 8x10, though, has two unique features the mentioned brands don´t:
⁃ The rear standard cannot be tilted (it can be swung forth and back, though) because rear tilting causes unpleasant perspective distortions and is used in landscape photography approximately once in two hundred years...Lack of rear tilt is not a "feature," it's a deficiency. First, your observation that use of rear tilt causes "unpleasant" perspective is a personal opinion. Many photographers intentionally tilt the camera's back rearward:


To obtain more front fall than would otherwise be available (i.e. an indirect movement when combined with downward bed tilt and rearward front tilt)
Because they want close objects to "loom" as a conscious aesthetic decision
Simply to deal with focus plane placement when coping with the small image circle of some lenses.



...Thanks to these solutions the rear standard is much more stable, the camera gains size and weight, and the front standard is so extremely stable that it far exceeds all outdoor cameras that I have ever known...More stability than what a Phillips Compact II's front and rear standard exhibit is hard to imagine. I am also unable to conceive of any situation, except perhaps lenses longer than 600mm, where greater camera size would be beneficial. On the other hand, greater bulk and weight (this new camera is 1.7kg heavier than a Compact II) detracts substantially from usability as an "outdoor camera."


...For a 8x10 negative long focal lengths start from 480 mm on, at which lens the majority of cameras turn into shaking toys... One starts waiting for the wind to stop blowing, at the same time trying to shorten the exposure time as much as possible. With a filter on and a small apperture typically used in landscape photography (for this particular focal length f45 and more)... it is an impossible task.
⁃ A similar problem can be observed in pictorial photography where using long but tiny and lightweight antique lenses often requires to extend the camera bellows maximally. Only after developing the negatives we discover that a part of them is unsharp. (Unfortunately, even my Canham doesn´t positively stand out here and shakes like a cloth at the max. bellows extension of about 97 cm. One feature helps though, it has namely a monopod support which can be fixed underneath the front standard, and stabilizes the camera. Ito 8x10 has a similar support but I do not think it would ever be necessary. This camera has just an incredible stability...Your Canham isn't the best field camera to use as a baseline. While beautiful to look at, it's far from being rigid. Given the extension you're talking about, any camera's bellows will act like a huge sail in the wind. Propping a monopod under their front standards might help a little, but blocking the wind is a much better solution. Think golf umbrella.


...The front standard has individual knobs for regulation: one pair for the up-down shift and another for the forth-back tilt. The two independent regulation possibilities are a useful feature. In many other cameras it drove me crazy to losen one pair of knobs responsible for two things and see that I can´t lift up the standard without changing the angle of tilt. In case of Ito 8x10 (just like in Canham cameras), this is the way it should be done...Have you ever actually used a Compact II? Do you know about the turnbutton that keeps its lensboard from tilting while selecting a rise/fall position? Are you familiar with the way disengaging the turnbutton and partial tightening of its tilt/rise locks prevents further vertical displacement but permits tilting?


...And all this at the weight of... 5,2 kg... Canham and Chamonix are about 1 kg lighter, but this only at the cost of much worse stability of the camera.Again, I think your comparison baseline is flawed. The Phillips Compact II is 1.7 kg lighter and gives nothing away in terms of stability. It is capable of easily handling heavy lenses from 120mm through 600mm.

In my opinion, "reinventing the wheel" was an unnecessary expenditure of effort. Ito would have been better off contacting Dick Phillips and requesting his assistance with producing more Compact IIs. I'd bet Dick would have been more than happy to help.

[StoneNYC]

I also agree that rear tilt is necessary, I must be doing something wrong since 50% of my work I use it...

[Kirk Gittings]

Again, I think your comparison baseline is flawed. The Phillips Compact II is 1.7 kg lighter and gives nothing away in terms of stability. It is capable of easily handling heavy lenses from 120mm through 600mm.

Agreed. It the most rigid field camera I have ever used-far more than the Canham and more rigid than "similar" designs like the Chamonix.

[Drew Wiley]

I can think of a more rigid folding 8x10 than the Phillips II - the Phillips "I" !! Not quite as much bellows extension, however. I'd also like to get my hands on an Ebony
8x10 but it's out of my price league. I've got a 4x5 Ebony and it's pretty damn stable for a folder. Of course, if you wish to reclassify a Sinar P as a field camera ....

[Sal Santamaura]

I can think of a more rigid folding 8x10 than the Phillips II - the Phillips "I" !!...Have you compared them side by side? What load/conditions did you throw at the Compact I where it exhibited more rigidity than the Compact II?


...I'd also like to get my hands on an Ebony 8x10 but it's out of my price league...I've got two Ebony cameras, 5x7 and wholeplate. The SV Wholeplate is not quite as large as an 8x10, but close. At proportionally long extensions, I've found the Compact II to be more rigid. Also, the Ebonies' titanium bottom plates permits some flex when attached to a quick release plate/rail. I had Grimes machine aluminum replacement plates with integral dovetails. Much more solid now. :)

120279

[Drew Wiley]

I use an oversized quick-release system with my 4x5 Ebony. Anything 8x10, or even a 4x5 monorail, is always always always bolted directly to the top of the Ries.
But technically, my Phillips is a tweak on the original camera. I talked in person with Dick Phillips about hypothetical improvements. He went one direction, I did something else which dramatically improved some of the hardware functionality and durability, even though it was an inexpensive changeout. The only downside I see to the original version is that I have to use a tophat board to employ a 600 mm lens. The back only has tilt, no swing, so is very firm. Anyway, it's so damn windy around here most of the year that it seems to be an ideal design.

[koh303]

What are the advantages of Ito's camera over the Chamonix?
it is about 33% cheaper, and there is not a 4 months wait list.

[Fred L]

There's base tilt on the camera, around the 4:10 mark of the video, a bit of rear and more forward tilt. Agree about the lack of fine focus or any geared focusing, why ?