C-Stand advice wanted

[Tin Can]

I am tired of my usual light stands and think I will like several C-Stands better, but I have never used them. I see there are a few manufacturers. Matthews may be the historical Hollywood preference. I like tradition.

I will be hanging very large soft boxes or umbrellas off them and they seem much better for use with sandbags.

Any advice?

Black or chrome?

Which brand?

[Peter De Smidt]

I've used Matthews and Avenger. Both are very nice. For use in the studio, any of these are better than 'kit' stands. They do work very well with sandbags, and they nest nicely for storage. While they are much sturdier than kit stands, you can still bend them with heavy loads at long extensions. Big softboxes often work best on a boom arm on a big rolling stand. This is what I used the other day: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/225904-REG/Avenger_B6026CS_B205_High_Wind_Up.html with this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546571-REG/Manfrotto_025BSL_025BSL_Super_Boom_ONLY.html

Here's a combo with a lighter-duty stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546565-REG/Manfrotto_025BS_025BS_Super_Boom_with.html

I've only seen the chrome ones.

Matthews aren't more expensive, if I remember rightly. If I was buying new, I'd go with them, just for the tradition aspect.

[Tin Can]

I have 2 Manfrotto boom setups, but my studio is too small. Things get crazy real fast. I tried Manfrotto wall mount booms, but they are never in the right place. Now I am setting up a second backdrop set at 90 degrees to the first one for a longer throw.

I think C-Stands will be safer and less to trip over.

I made a DIY stand from a cast iron patio umbrella base, it is nice, but doesn't sandbag well, it's good for a rim light.




I've used Matthews and Avenger. Both are very nice. For use in the studio, any of these are better than 'kit' stands. While they are much sturdier than kit stands, you can still bend them with heavy loads at long extensions. Big softboxes often work best on a boom arm on a big rolling stand. This is what I used the other day: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/225904-REG/Avenger_B6026CS_B205_High_Wind_Up.html with this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/325362-REG/Manfrotto_085BSL_Heavy_Duty_Boom_Arm.html

I've only seen the chrome ones.

[frotog]

I like the c-stands w/ removable turtle bases - easier to store, ship, throw in your truck, etc... plus you have a Junior receiver short boy stand should you ever need it. Either matthews or avenger though the avenger removable base stands are less expensive. Worth the few extra bucks, imho.

[Jim C.]

I think C-Stands will be safer and less to trip over.


You're going to trip over them regardless if you're in a small studio situation, because of the folding legs.
you may want to look at Mole Richardson wheeled stands their legs are much lower and they sand bag well.
I used these extensively in my motion control shooting days, the lower legs made it a lot easier crawling
in and out of set ups.

Example - http://columbuscameragroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1001-500x431.jpg

[Tin Can]

Good ideas, both about C-Stand removeable base and Mole Richardson, especially on wheels.

Maybe I should just use cast iron patio umbrellas bases. Aldi sold me one for under $20 and a solid steel boom base pole fits fit in. But it is hard to move, and with a light on one it would be very difficult.

I'm trying everything, even using big Arkay camera stands as 7' umbrella holders.

I need to dig a basement...

[vinny]

Matthews may have been a historical preference but they aren't today. American Grip Equipment dominates the u.s. market, especially hollywood. Like Peter said, I wouldn't hang large boxes off of them unless you aren't going very high by not using the top riser.

[Daniel Stone]

Randy, if you have the storage space height-wise, take a look at the Manfrotto/Bogen "autopoles". Telescoping mono-pole lightstands, very handy things to have for a space-concious or location-based photographer, especially when you're attempting to save floor space or shove a light straight into a corner and not have legs sticking out everwhere.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546453-REG/Manfrotto_032B_032B_Single_Autopole_Black.html

Pairing a few of those with a few super clamps w/ pins makes a nice way to save floor space, and if you can still connect arms w/ knuckles to them, again, via super clamps. Not to mention they're much lighter than steel c-stands.

http://youtu.be/N1RoMIGTGK4?t=3m45s

just a thought

-Dan

[StoneNYC]

I've owned a bunch of Matthews they suck, the grips ware out, etc, I've found I like the avengers best (manfrotto opened I believe) and the kind with the removable base are nice as you can change out short poles for longer ones etc so you can buy just a peg or a shorter pole instead of multiple stands. Very sturdy, I like the black painted ones, but that's just me.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Vinny. I assume they are USA made? I prefer that. Their website is very minimal, no pics even. Pricing seems similar, but not free shipping like B&H...

I won't be going very high. I use Einstein's.


Matthews may have been a historical preference but they aren't today. American Grip Equipment dominates the u.s. market, especially hollywood. Like Peter said, I wouldn't hang large boxes off of them unless you aren't going very high by not using the top riser.

[Tin Can]

Good idea! I do have 2 Auto Poles holding up my backdrops, but I may hang them from the ceiling and that frees up the Auto Poles for light stands. I do worry talent may think they are stronger than they look and knock one down.


Randy, if you have the storage space height-wise, take a look at the Manfrotto/Bogen "autopoles". Telescoping mono-pole lightstands, very handy things to have for a space-concious or location-based photographer, especially when you're attempting to save floor space or shove a light straight into a corner and not have legs sticking out everwhere.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546453-REG/Manfrotto_032B_032B_Single_Autopole_Black.html

Pairing a few of those with a few super clamps w/ pins makes a nice way to save floor space, and if you can still connect arms w/ knuckles to them, again, via super clamps. Not to mention they're much lighter than steel c-stands.

http://youtu.be/N1RoMIGTGK4?t=3m45s

just a thought

-Dan

[Tin Can]

Good feedback, thanks!


I've owned a bunch of Matthews they suck, the grips ware out, etc, I've found I like the avengers best (manfrotto opened I believe) and the kind with the removable base are nice as you can change out short poles for longer ones etc so you can buy just a peg or a shorter pole instead of multiple stands. Very sturdy, I like the black painted ones, but that's just me.

[Leigh]

I've owned a bunch of Matthews they suck...
Stone,

Based on having read all/most of your posts, it seems everything you own sucks.

Why don't you buy better stuff???

- Leigh

[Mark Woods]

American GE is preferred by the grips. I use Norms C-Stands since they're a lot cheaper and work really well. I've solved the problem with slippage on the knuckle by putting large washers in between the elements. Everything locks tight. One should really understand that there is a front and back to a C-Stand and it makes a difference on how you set them up. Also, the sandbag should go on the large leg facing the the cantilevered weight. I have the turtle stands with junior baby adapters so I can put smaller lights on them.

Good luck!

[Tin Can]

Great, another manufacturer and source. Norms even sells parts!


American GE is preferred by the grips. I use Norms C-Stands since they're a lot cheaper and work really well. I've solved the problem with slippage on the knuckle by putting large washers in between the elements. Everything locks tight. One should really understand that there is a front and back to a C-Stand and it makes a difference on how you set them up. Also, the sandbag should go on the large leg facing the the cantilevered weight. I have the turtle stands with junior baby adapters so I can put smaller lights on them.

Good luck!

[Bruce Watson]

I am tired of my usual light stands and think I will like several C-Stands better, but I have never used them.

I'm a little leery of putting lights on c-stands. The reason is just what you'd think, and just what you are trying to get away from. The legs are "shorter" and don't take up as much room. Which makes them less stable than a conventional light stand of comparable capacity if you are booming lights (or anything else). Centered lights, non-boomed, fine. But if you are not booming but using a softbox, you're still pulling the center of gravity away from the center shaft, so be careful. Light stands and c-stands are different for a reason. Just sayin'.

There are seemingly thousands of c-stands with many variants on the used markets. I can't see much of any reason to buy new. I certainly haven't.

As to sandbags, they only work well when they aren't touching the ground. That is, all the weight is carried by the legs of the c-stand. I tend to put the longest leg directly under the boom, then wrap the sandbag around the central shaft in a "butterfly" configuration so that both sides of the bag are directly opposite of the longest leg. IOW, between the two short legs, and up off the ground. This seems to work fairly well giving me good stability, but I'm not booming anything really heavy either (just flags, reflectors, silks, etc.). Clearly, YMMV.

To boom lights, I tend to use an Avenger A4041B that lets me sandbag the boom itself, balancing the load right over the middle of the stand. That and the longer legs work well for me for small-ish lights.

As to color, Avenger has a "black chrome" process that works pretty well for them. Matthews just uses black paint which I'm told tends to scratch right off (I don't actually own any Matthews stands, not for lack of trying though). So if you go with Matthews, seems that chrome is what you want. Avenger can go either way.

The "big four" of c-stands in the USA seems to be Norms, American Grip, Avenger, and Matthews. They all have adherents, and all have detractors. And people will argue about who is, and who isn't, on that list. But these four are all better (bigger, stiffer, stronger, easier to set and control, etc.) than the lesser stands. I think all my c-stands are Avengers, IDKW. That's just what seems to show up used when I want one.

Depending on how you want to store them when not in use, there are "normal" stands with the legs and main shaft permanently connected and there are "turtle base" stands that let you remove the legs. Turtle based stands are much easier to transport in a car for example. On the other hand, if you need to use your stands on an uneven surface (say, you need to raise a leg to use it on a stair, or you need to level up outside), then you'll perhaps want a "Rocky Mountain leg" which you can slide up the center shaft; very useful when you need it. And if you need it, you can't get it with a turtle base. Just sayin'.

[Tin Can]

Thanks Bruce, very educational.

I know used ones come up, but they seem to start at $100 in Chicago.

All my other grip hardware I got for a much lower percentage of new value. My other post today is about FOBA Combitubes. I bought an NOS kit without knowing what it was until last night. I paid less than 1% of new. I am really upset I didn't get the other set, but the guy was keeping it for the case, and tossing the contents...:( I was also buying for just the case. I found out what they were good for late last night while idly web surfing and FOBA came up. Now I need a couple more 3 way joints.

Them things are very pricey. And I hate that word.

[Peter De Smidt]

I've not used AGE stands. I'm sure they're fine. I wouldn't say that any of the Matthews or Avengers I've used suck, and I've used some pretty old ones. We had over 50 c-stands at the last studio I worked at, some of them looked as old as I am. The newer ones do seem to have nicer grip heads. Given new prices, I wouldn't pay $100 for a used C-stand.

[Tin Can]

Exactly what I was thinking and the $100 ones look beat up.

Some used stuff goes dirt cheap and some goes high. It does average out usually. It's not easy to always get deals when you need things.

I'll buy new C-Stands, most likely Avenger as the they reportedly have a harder black finish. And more sandbags.

Maybe I can make some Combitube accessories. They may be Swiss made, but the threading is SAE 3/8-16.






I've not used AGE stands. I'm sure they're fine. I wouldn't say that any of the Matthews or Avengers I've used suck, and I've used some pretty old ones. We had over 50 c-stands at the last studio I worked at, some of them looked as old as I am. The newer ones do seem to have nicer grip heads. Given new prices, I wouldn't pay $100 for a used C-stand.

[StoneNYC]

Stone,

Based on having read all/most of your posts, it seems everything you own sucks.

Why don't you buy better stuff???

- Leigh

I did, I got avengers instead... Lol

The Matthews I had I just had every issue I could have, the grips would slip, the handles shape made it hard to tighten down easily, the riser wasn't smooth, that's the main stuff, I think I once used "American" brand or something like that, and they were better than Matthews but had similar problems.

The Avenger really are a nice design, my only problem is just that I grab the feet and want to twist them the wrong way, so I end up having to twist them all the way around before they lock, but that's my own fault not theirs.

Good luck OP.

[Peter De Smidt]

How about a ceiling system?

[vinny]

For the average user, there's nothing wrong with the new Matthews c-stands that have the "hollywood heads". The old matthews gear with the small handles (found on the used market) aren't great even when new and don't work well after years of constant use. For the most part, those have been phased out of the rental world. American are the best and easiest to operate and we prefer them for a couple reasons. One being that there are less holes in the head to deal with. Anything that makes setting a flag faster when the pressure is on, is helpful. That's coming from someone who has used all of them.

[Tin Can]

Actually I wanted that, but then I need to change my HVAC open pipe ductwork. It's in the way. Perhaps I could remove 12 feet of duct as I don't think it's necessary. It's my back area and it stays a very constant temp.

I have been dodging that 10 feet high ducting for a while. Cutting down camera stands and even my Deardorff Bi-Post to get under it.

I have developed 'mission creep' and even tonight I am rearranging the shooting studio once again. If I only had 2000 sq ft instead of 750. I could fill that up too...

Oh the horrors


How about a ceiling system?

[Tin Can]

I'll just bob on over to Calumet and look at them. Oops, they never did stock anything. I think they are open again.

Thanks for the grips POV.


For the average user, there's nothing wrong with the new Matthews c-stands that have the "hollywood heads". The old matthews gear with the small handles (found on the used market) aren't great even when new and don't work well after years of constant use. For the most part, those have been phased out of the rental world. American are the best and easiest to operate and we prefer them for a couple reasons. One being that there are less holes in the head to deal with. Anything that makes setting a flag faster when the pressure is on, is helpful. That's coming from someone who has used all of them.

[HMG]

Are the ceiling mounted "accordion" tracks an option? I visited a home studio a while back; the photographer had recently converted to those a loved them. She had a small space and like the fact that there was nothing on the floor to trip on.

With C stands, you might consider having a couple of bags of lead shot (for reloading shotshells) around when a sandbag isn't heavy enough. Though you might need to remove some of the shot to allow the bag to drape over the leg properly.

[StoneNYC]

For the average user, there's nothing wrong with the new Matthews c-stands that have the "hollywood heads". The old matthews gear with the small handles (found on the used market) aren't great even when new and don't work well after years of constant use. For the most part, those have been phased out of the rental world. American are the best and easiest to operate and we prefer them for a couple reasons. One being that there are less holes in the head to deal with. Anything that makes setting a flag faster when the pressure is on, is helpful. That's coming from someone who has used all of them.

Oh good to know the newer Matthews products are improved.

And now I remember that's why I DIDN'T like the American, I like the smaller hole options as my flags are different size poles than other things, but if you have custom flags they can all be made the same size.

Good info.