Bought new Epson F-3200 transparent scanner...

[Bernard Languillier]

Dear all,

I have just purchased a new Epson F-3200 4*5 scanner as a (at least) temporary scanning solution.

The F-3200 is not available in the US/Europe yet, but should be very soon. It is completely different from the Epson 3200 flatbed scanner available for overseas markets.

It is a slide in type scanner able to scan up to 4*5.

The price in Japan is 52.000 Yen (less than 400 Euros), but it was annouced at more double the price in Europe.

I'll keep you updated regarding the quality of the scans vs the Coolscan 9000ED that I have been using for half a year for 6*45 scans.

Best regards,
Bernard

[Scott Rosenberg]

bernard...

i'm sure i'm not alone in saying that i'm anxiously awaiting your impressions of this new scanner.

[Ken Lee]

Does this scanner have glass holders, or do you scan right through the film directly ? Are there reviews of the output ? Does anyone know about the actual delivered resolution ?

[Kevin M Bourque]

Very hard to find info on this gadget....all the Epson sites I looked at are mum on the subject. Here's one link, anyway....


http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/newsroom/epson-04-10-19.asp (http://www.buy-n-shoot.com/newsroom/epson-04-10-19.asp)

[Brian Kennedy]

I really want this scanner to be a good performer, but the fact that they are relying on Silverfast AI 6 to eliminate dust and scratches (rather than Digital ICE) is not a good sign. Still, if it smokes the 3200 flatbed, an F-3200 may be in my future. I am very interested to hear thoughts as people try these new scanners out.

[Bernard Languillier]

Gentlemen,

Some very first feedback:

- A glass holder is provided for 4*5. It has anti-newton glass on the bottom side, and just a plastic piece of the upper side that prevents the slide from moving. The holder is light compared to those of my Coolscan 9000, but seems rigid enough,

- The max theoretical resolution is 3200 DPI, but I could only select up to 2400 DPI at 24 bits, or 1200 DPI at 48 bits for 4*5 slides. Above those settings, an error message is displayed that the data is too large. I hope that this will be fixed in later versions of Epson scanning software. I intend to contact them asap on this issue (current version is 1.41J).

- I compared these 2 options, and the 24 bits 2400 DPI output didn't seem to have much higher definition but displayed clear posterization in near blown out areas. I ended up using the 48 bit 1200 DPI mode.

- The dust removal function seems to work decently from my first tests, but I will need to check more in depth.

- The pilot does currently not enable direct control on analog gain from what I could see. The scans came out overall more contrasty and darker than I expected. This is probably the sign of a low actual DMax. I found it difficult to both prevent highlight burn out and to keep details in the shadows. Overlap 2 scans with different luminosity settings in PS allowed me to extract quite a lot of information out of the image.

- The scanning of one 4*5 slide at 1200 DPI 48 bits is quite fast, I didn't really time it, but I would say around 2 minutes including post-processing.

- The pilot offers ICM support, but the TIFF images when opened in PS appear not to have any embedded profile. I will also contact Epson on this... In the worst case I'll create one with Monaco EZ color later on this week and will associate them in PS after opening the image. The default color appeared a bit washed out on my calibrated TFT screen.

- I put a small size sample of my first scan (of what happens to be the very first image I shot with my new Ebony by the way) online at http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view?id=1372034 (http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view?id=1372034)

I know that the image is not that great.

I could email 100% crop samples to those interested later on this week.

My overall first impression is that the F-3200 has potential, but that this potential appears to be currently limited by a pilot which is not really fully ready yet. I hope that they can work on this to solve these issues.

Currently, the 4*5 images scanned at 1200 DPI appear to have a quality slightly inferior to those produced by my Kodak SLR/n... which is not really what I was expecting.

More news on this in the coming days.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Bernard Languillier]

Dear all,

I kept playing with the F-3200.

Everything I wrote above still holds except for the dark scans. I am now getting much better results by using the Driver colors instead or ICM + default Epson.

The colors seem resonnably accurate.

Overall, I feel that it is a very usable tool if you intent not to print larger than A3 or A3+.

Best regards,
Bernard

[Willem Numan]

Hello Bernard,

You seem to be the only resource on the world-wide-web who can tell us about the Epson F-3200.
Have you got any new results. Would it be possible to post a 100% image-part on your Photosig page so we can all see how sharp this scanner really is?

Greatings, Willem

[Bernard Languillier]

Hi Willem,

Wow, I wasn't aware of the achievement when I bought the scanner a few weeks ago... :-)

A few people contacted me that were also interested in seeing 100% crops of the scanner.

I will do my very best to send them some time next week (things have been a bit busy recently). Since I do also own a Coolscan 9000ED, I intend to also scan a few 6*45 Velvia with both scanners to provide a basis for comparison.

My current feeling about the F-3200 is that it is a capable machine which should provide scans usable up to A3 or A3+. I feel though that the Coolscan is ahead by a significant margin, and that the interest of shooting 4*5 for max image quality is kind of reduced if the scan becomes the limiting factor...

Anyway, that is just my call, and I am sure that you would prefer to be able to make up your own opinion, which is why I intend to make 100% crops available soon.

Best regards,
Bernard

[stefan_4883]

hallo bernhard, hallo all of you,

be patient with my poor english, but i will do my very best to let at least understand you what i'm looking for!
herre in munic nobody can give me detailed information on this film scanner f-3200!
what i urgently have to know is, if the machine is capable to scan 4 x 5 inches slides or negs without cropping to much.
some people here say, that it only works up to 9 x 12 centimeter, which would be a ko criterium for me.
please help me and the best wishes from the old world

stefan

[Paul Freeman]

Bernard...

If your scans at 1200 DPI from 5x4 arent as good as your SLR/n then there is a problem...

I have been using the 4870 for 5x4 and it is very substantially better than my SLR/c when it works.

The only problem with the 4870 is the lack of any way of holding 5x4 film flat enough. My type 55 negs just end up out of focus in the center. Maybe I need to try to get some anti newton glass.

So maybe the main benefit of the F-3200 is flatness, but your report about the resolution is a little worrying.

[luis]

hi, i noticed the "softness" effect i dislike about scanning, unlike digital which is the opposite end, so sharp it looks plastic. of course, needs to be judged at 100%. would you be so kind as to email a crop at 100% res..?
i scanned a 645 slide yesterday, 3000 dpi with about 40 minutes of manipulation til i got the best histogam/sharpness, with a imacon flextight 343, really dissappointed at the result, too soft, will mail you a copy if you are interested. moreover, no ICE and no dust removal.
cheers, Luis

[ollie]

Luis …

I read your post with great interest. As an Imacon-Scanner should be about two leagues above scanners like that Epson one, I'd be thankful, if you email me a 100%-res-crop of your described scan.

I totally agree with you saying that digital pictures often look plastic, because of unnatural sharpness. But on the other hand, the world IS sharp ... I guess, we all have "learned" during many years of analog photography that there is a "certain and true" sharpness which has to be achieved exactly by the new techniques. Every "other sharpness" seems to be incorrect. I often catch myself thinking that way. Maybe in the digital-age the "correct sharpness" has to be defined new … but this is almost philosophical …

with best regards!

ollie

[Chris Woodhouse]

I did some testing of real performance and required resolution and lp/mm equivalents for scanning and printing. The 4870 flatbed only accomplishes 35 lp/mm which is equivalent to a perfect 2400 dpi scanner. If this new scanner's optics can match the 1200 dpi CCD resolution, then this should be about enough for printing. 1200 dpi is equivalent to 18 lp/mm. A 20x16 print requires a 4x enlargement, which means that the print resolution is 4.5 lp/mm . The eye can only resolve 7 lp/mm at the eye's closest focussing distance, so a 20x16 should be fine at just over a foot away. The trouble is, we don't trust Epson as they are always marketing their products with confusing numbers.

[hieronymus]

Hello everybody..

the F-3200 is out now in Holland as well (sold at 599 EUR excl VAT)

but it's the same here, nobody has any first results of the machine.

Would it be any better than my 1000 EUR Epson Expression 1600 Pro ?

Any results yet, Bernard ?

Thanx

[Chris Woodhouse]

I have the Expression 1600 Pro. I made a high resolution test negative on APX25. The Expression 1600 only resolves just over 1000 dpi. I borrowed a 4870 and it achieved twice that resolution and practically, on a MF negative had a lot less noise too. (Everything at optimium settings and sharpening) It would seem we have to choose our poison. the 4870 and fiddle with the height of the negative, the Canon 9950 and its unreliability, or the F3200 - which I would guess can be no worse than the 4870. Finally if we want quality we have to pay for it and buy the Minolta Mult Pro.

The F3200 is turning out to be a lost opportunity. By limiting the scanning resolution for MF and LF, the 4870 seems to be a better bet.

[giancatarina]

By limiting the scanning resolution for MF and LF, the 4870 seems to be a better bet.... the 4990 arrives !!!

[hieronymus]

I thought the 4990 is the French equivalent of the 4870 ?!?!?!?

[Willem Numan]

The Epson 4990 = Epson GT-X800 which is already available on the Japanese market for some time.
http://www.i-love-epson.co.jp/products/scanner/gtx800/gtx8002.htm (http://www.i-love-epson.co.jp/products/scanner/gtx800/gtx8002.htm)

[Chris Woodhouse]

I checked the French Epson site. They list a 4870 and a 4990. The 4990 seems to have a higher dmax, but the same resolution.

[lucas]

to everyone interested and still not sure about which scanner to buy:
check this. it's subjective and direct, and so: very helpful.
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Scanners/Epson_F3200/page-7.htm (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Scanners/Epson_F3200/page-7.htm)