Gandolfi 4x5 Variant

[Cindy_4701]

Hi,

I'm thinking about buying a Variant as my first LF and would very much like to hear the opinions of those who use this camera. There are 2 models available to me that are almost new--a Level Ia, with 485mm bellows, or a Level III. While I have seen the difference in the specs of the two, since I am new to the medium, I would benefit from an explanation that a college photo major can understand. Thanks!

Cindy

[Glenn Kroeger]

Cindy:

I have seen Variants, but I don't use one. They are lovely cameras and it may be the right camera for you. But I would offer a general word for someone selecting their first camera. Choose something moderately priced with balanced specs that is easy to sell. It probably won't be your last camera.

For example, bellows length is a spec that many people obsess over. If you know you are going to shoot a Nikon or Fuji 450mm lens, then 485mm of bellows is wonderful. But if you start with a 150-210mm lens, and discover that your own vision gravitates towards wide views, those bellows may make life with a 75mm lens difficult. And believe me, making sharp images with almost 500mm of bellows in the wind is difficult, requiring significant investment in a tripod, head and usually some ancilary support for the camera.

To get the best advice from this forum, it would help to know what type of photography you envision. For example, most people use far less tilts and swings than even field cameras with modest specs allow. But if interior architecture is your thing, then extreme wide angle use with movements requires a particular set of specs.

[Edward (Halifax,NS)]

Cindy, if I were to win the lotto tomorrow, this is the camera I would buy.

[Glenn Kroeger]

Cindy:

Everything Dan says is absolutely true.

But I think you need to translate these spec based statements into real shooting scenarios "that a college photo major can understand".

What does it mean to shoot 1/2 lifesize with a 300mm lens. It means you are taking a picture of something 8x10 inches in size located approximately 3 feet in front of the lens hanging on the front of a camera over 1.5 feet in length (and the distance from the film to the subject is less than the span of your outstretched arms). Now there may well be instances where you want to do that kind of shot. But the real question is why you need to do it that way, instead of using 300mm of bellows with a 200mm lens and being only 2 feet from the subject. I suggest, that unless you are doing LF photography of live rattlesnakes, there are few reasons you need to be 3 feet rather than 2 feet from the subject. Both allow plenty of room for fill lighting with reflectors, and the shorter lens solution gives less camera shake and more depth of field which will be scarce in either scenario.

I use a 300mm lens for probably 1/2 of my shots, and I live very comfortably with about 350mm of bellows. That allows me to photography something the size of a washing machine at about 10 feet. If I need to get closer, I just use a shorter lens. I certainly wouldn't trade another 100mm of bellows draw for the inability to work comfortably with wide angle lenses.

[Daniel luu Van Lang]

hi Cindy,
I purchased a Variant III 3 years ago and use it for landscape and portraiture.
If you want to do studio work, you could find a view camera for far less money and buy a good lens with the difference. if you want to do landscape, the gandolfi is heavy but very versatile, the model III allows all the movements, back tilt swing rise&fall, front tilt, swing rise&fall. Keep in mind that you will not use all those movements most of time. backpacking such a heavy equipment is a real drawback in my opinion. You could find a very cheaper and lighter wood folding camera. anyway, this camera is very well built and a real great craftman work, until now I am very happy with it and never wanted to change it for anything else.
If you are a beginner in LF, in my opinion it could be easier to have geared tilt, shift and swing. I think you could buy a cheap used view camera first and save money for good lenses, you will probably change later for another one but you will know what you need exactly,
my two cents,
hope that could help you
All the best,
Daniel

[Gem Singer]

Hi Cindy Donatelli,

Please take this as a good natured comment. During the month of October, you have asked this forum about a Toyo A, a Horseman FA, a Gandolfi Level 1a, and a Gandolfi level 3. You have also advertised on the photo.net classified forum for a Canham DLC and an Ebony 45S. All of the cameras you have mentioned are outstanding cameras that any college photo major would be proud to own.

You are the only one who is capable of making the decision as to which camera to buy. So far, you have been offered a pile of excellent advice.I'll add my free advice to that pile (for what it's worth). Fit a camera and lens to your budget and make your decision, already. There is no such thing as the right, or wrong camera. Once you get hold of a large format camera that best fits your method of photographing, you'll know. Large format equipment retains it's value. You can sell, or trade it, if you don't like it. You can add lenses and accessories without worrying about the need to match up equipment from the same manufacturer, like you do with 35mm and medium format. In the mean time, you are wasting valuable time that could otherwise be spent burning film and learning to use your large format camera.

To answer your question: a lot of LF photographers would give their eye teeth to own either model Gandolfi you mention. They are the Rolls Royce of the large format camera world. Take a look at www.badgergraphic.com. Click on large format, then click cameras-Gandolfi. You will be able to see pictures of the various levels of the Gandolfi cameras that are available. You can compare features, as well as prices, for yourself. They are fine cameras.

[Pete Watkins]

I hate to be negative but some Gandolfi cameras are made of MDF, if you want a wooden camera you want a wooden camera not MDF. I have used a Wista DX for a few years now, it's cherry wood and looks beautiful. I can also use my 65mm S/A with limited movements admitedly, but it fits and works. Gandolfi is a name with a great past but look at other options before making a decision and parting with your hard earned cash. Personally if I had a packet I'd but an Ebony, but only 'cos they look fantastic and are over engineered I'd still keep my Wista.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Pete,

The Ebony line of cameras is equivalent to the Lexus line of automobiles, while Wista cameras are the Toyotas of the camera world. Both will get you to the grocery store. It all depends on the level of luxury you want while making the trip.

Some models of Gandolfi's are also made of walnut, and some of mahogany. MDF is resistant to warping, denting, and water. It is a composite of wood and resin. Good stuff in the hands of a Gandolfi master camera builder.

[Pete Watkins]

Hi Eugene,

You can have the MDF, I'll stick to real wood. My post was only to make Cindy aware that an MDF camera is not a wooden camera and that Gandolfi use both, buyer beware!. If the stuff is that good why don't other camera makers use it? Walnut is a superb wood and it looks a heck of a lot better than MDF I am not anti Gandolfi but I do think that people should be made fully aware of the products on the market. How many MDF cameras do you posess?
Pete

[tim atherton]

As fart as I am aware Gandolfi has never made a secret of it - rather a selling point - as was pointed out, resistance to warping, warter, denting and also allows the possibility of machining in the design.

"Walnut is a superb wood and it looks a heck of a lot better than MDF" Looks a lot better - presumably your walnut camera takes better looking pictures as well?

The best camera I have ever owned (and still own) is my Phillips Compact II - uses a lot of plywood as I recall. Don't think there is a bit of Walnut (or ebony) on it?

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Phlips makes cameras from MDF and they are some of the best cameras around. I have a Gandolfi 8x10, gotten at a good price, but I would trade it for a philips in a second if I had the money. Gandolfis are good cameras, but have too many knobs and lever for my taste.

[Sal Santamaura]

I know of no Phillips cameras using MDF. Both my 4x5 and 8x10 have bases composed of wood/fiberglas/epoxy sandwiches. The backs appear to be solid wood (species unknown to me; finished black).

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

epoxy/fiberglass/wood, isnt that the same as MDF? regardless, they are not all wooden cameras. I suspect MDF is not a bad choice either.

[Sal Santamaura]

MDF is lots of fine wood chips/dust in a formaldehyde-based resin. It's dense and heavy. Phillips uses a sandwich of solid wood and fiberglas mesh bound by epoxy. It's light, rigid and I've never been able to detect formaledhyde outgassing.

Just to calibrate the sensitivity of my schnozz, when opening kitchen drawers in my eleven-year old house, I can still detect formaldehyde fumes from particle board below the plastic laminate finish surfaces.

[Gem Singer]

Pete,

To answer your question: I own, and have owned many LF cameras, in three formats, made of several combinations of metal and wood. A rosewood Wista, a teakwood Shen Hao, a couple of mahogany Wisners, an Ebony wood Ebony, and several cherry wood Tachiharas. I love wooden
folding flatbed cameras. However, I have never owned a camera made of MDF or ABS. Perhaps someday I will.

Cindy (if you're still out there),

I don't know how we got off the subject of helping you choose a camera. But, if I remember correctly, in your original post a few weeks ago, you stated that you prefered a metal field camera over a wooden field camera.

Not to serve as a broker for the deal, but Scot Fleming has been trying to sell his Toyo AII for the past few months. He has advertised it for sale several times in the photo.net classifies. I'll bet you could get a sweet deal on that camera, if you really tried. Teamed up with a used Fuji 135W from Midwest, that combination of camera and lens would fill your needs and save you a bundle of money.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

well, I bought MDF for my UV light box and it is certainly not wood chip particles. It is layers of birch glued together. It does not have fiber glass, but it would do a good job for a camera. Heavy, but it would be a good choice.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Jorge,

What you are describing (layers of birch glued together) is plywood. MDF is an abbreviation for Medium Density Fiberboard. Here's a link to a description of this material and a list of it's strengths and weaknesses.


http://www.design-technology.org/mdf.htm (http://www.design-technology.org/mdf.htm)

Based on this thread, we have no idea what the original poster plans to photograph or how they want to photograph it. It seems a bit premature to discuss what brand or type of camera she should get, let alone what it's made out of.

Kerry

[Gem Singer]

Kerry,

Click on Cindy's name. Her previous posts will appear, beginning with her original post on Sept. 29th. She mentions what she plans to photograph and what lenses her professors have recommended. She also states her reason for wanting a metal camera.

[chris_4622]

I am a professional woodworker and I am getting ready to build a 5 x 7 with a 4 x 5 reducing back out of Mahogany. I wouldn't even consider MDF. I don't know what kind of finish is on the Gandolfi to protect it but it had better be good. MDF, when moisture gets in is like a sponge. All finishes allow moisture to pass through, albeit at varying rates.

chris f

[Bob._3483]

Chris, the MDF used by Gandolfi is a marine variant - as used in the hulls of ocean going yachts I believe...

Having said that, it *is* heavy and the Variant is also quite large compared to other similar field cameras, adding to the weight.

I would certainly prefer the wood version on aesthetic grounds, if nothing else.

Cheers,

[Bill_1856]

WOOD? You want a WOOD camera? You consider yourself experts? Wood rots. Wood soaks up water. Wood burns. Wood even smells funny. The only kind of material that a view camera should be made of is STONE. Just like Granddaddy used. None of this modren materials.
Why wood would be even stupider than MFD. Or whatever.

[chris_4622]

Bob, thanks for the clarification.
I think I'll stick with the mahogany. I'll be long gone by the time it "rots"!!

[Bob._3483]

I'm sure the walnut it will look a lot prettier too!

[Bob._3483]

.. or the mahogany even...

I'm going to bed right NOW....

Cheers,

[Cindy_4701]

I have just returned home from 6 hours of color printing my first 4 x 5 negatives on 24 x 30 and found all your wonderful replies. Putting aside the choice of a camera for a moment, I hope that underneath these inquiries--Eugene, you remembered!--is this tremedous passion I have for photography. I didn't want to say anything much about my photography here because this seemed like such a "professional" site, and you all seemed to know so much. Not even knowing the difference between a view and field camera a few months ago, my desire to learn about photography has expressed itself incredibly in relation to the 4 x 5, which seems the ideal medium for the highly articulated art images that I like to create. I have heard you all ask landscape, product, portrait, but those categories don't really fit, or maybe, I don't fit them. I love Andreas Gursky's work, Thomas Struth. I don't photograph people, too invasive. For my first 4x5, I took some frilly debutante dresses, blue, lime green, and red, hung them on a tree at the edge of the city where you can see forever, and was absolutely amazed when I printed the negative and found that you could actually the horizon and the clouds were not a blur, but clearly visible. Is that landscape photo--I dunno. I know I don't backpack. I'm a city girl. I have a car which carries my equipment. And while it may seem presumptuous of me to dream of these amazing cameras, the purchase of them is not crazy "camera lust"--which, I think I said before I never had--it is a way of ratifying and acknowledging how important photography is in my life, and, for once, allowing myself to think that my interest in photography has become "professional" and that I can buy a beautiful camera and own it as a sign of that commitment.

So I've just learned so much from all your posts, and by reading the threads here--just a handful of students here shoot 4 x 5, and my professors had never heard of the Canham, the Gandolfi, or the Ebony. They were amazed when I showed them the websites. All this has come from my "internet" camera acquaintances--thank you for the conversation and I promise not to post again until I have my very own 4 x 5 in hand, and hopefully, I'll find a gracious way to announce its arrival to all of you.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

If Gandolfi is using the MDF Kerry posted, then by all means stay away from it. Mine is a Mahogany 8x10, solid wood that burns, takes water and smells funny, but I still like it.. :)

[Brian Ellis]

Cindy - I will give again the advice I've given many times in response to questions such as yours (and which I believe someone else has already given in this thread but saying it twice won't hurt anything). If you stick with large format photograpy your first large format camera almost certainly won't be your last. My guess is that no more than maybe 20% of the people who have been using large format cameras extensively for at least five years are still using their first large format camera as their primary camera.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy a "beautiful camera" as a sign of your commitment, camera aesthetics are important to many people, otherwise they'd all be made finished in marine paint or something like that. But you also obviously want one so that you can make photographs. So I'd suggest, as others have, that you buy a simple, relatively inexpensive (under $1,000) camera for your first large format camera, preferably a well-known and respected brand that can be resold at a decent price without much difficulty, use it a lot, see what you like and dislike about it, then after a year or so you'll be in a better position to know which features are important, which aren't, and which expensive thing of beauty best fits your needs.

[Gem Singer]

Thanks for affirming that you are, indeed, a real person Cindy. I was beginning to think that you were a fake. Possibly a troll.

Good luck in your search. I'm sure a camera will appear that is exactly right for your present needs. Don't be surprised if you grow out of it over time. Most people in your position have turned to digital. Cameras are only tools. Find the tools that work best in your hands and don't think of them as the final ultimate tools you will ever own. New tools and techniques are being introduced every day. That's part of the magical appeal of photography.

[Cindy_4701]

a camera troll . . .eeeeek. Are there really such people . . .

I think I've got it, "this will not be my first and only LF camera" so just start at a point that seems like a good beginning point, rather than trying to do it all at once. It takes the pressure off to make just the right decisio. Thanks again for all the advice!

[Martin Courtenay-Blake]

Hi Cindy and all

Gandolfi make traditional "wood" field cameras in virtually any size up to 20" x 24" as well as banquet cameras. They are manufactured to order in probably any wood that is available. These are beautiful instruments as befits a company that has been in the business for a century or so and can be regarded, as has already been stated, the Rolls Royce of field cameras.

The "Variant" concept is an amalgamation of traditional camera building skills with modern precision engineering and materials. These cameras came about when the Gandolfi company was run by Sir Kenneth Corfield, after the retirement of the last Gandolfi Brothers (who acted as consultants for some time). Corfield has his routes in design and manufacture of 35mm and medium format cameras, as well as other engineered products.

Whilst not as extremely "engineered" as some of the newer field and view cameras they are designed to be used and should be seen as high quality workhorses rather than objets d'art. Personally I like the appearance as well. The use of marine mdf is clever in as much as it is highly machinable and is much more stable than solid wood. If well finished it will also look good if not overly glamourous.

Like most of us I love the look and feel of the wood and metal cameras and if I wanted an object of beauty as well as a functioning large format camera I would probably look towards Ebony, Gandolfi Traditionals or Wista but for a real day to day camera that was also beautifully engineered and looked good, in a more utilitarianway, the Variants would be very hard to beat.

[james mickelson]

Cindy, I own and use a Ganolfi Varient. I love it. The only thing that might be a negative is that it is heavy. Easy to pack around in a backpack but for more than a day out, it would get tiresome. If I had to do it again, I would buy a Wisner. More movements. Lighter. A used goes for around $1200 and it is a nice rugged camera. But if this is your first, I'd buy the least expensive 4x5 you can find as long as it has axis tilts. Much easier to use and understand than base tilts. But if you will be using it mainly for studio work, I'd get a monorail camera instead of a field camera. Better movements and longer bellows. A much more vesatile camera for anystudio application. But as far as a Gandolfi is concerned, I love mine. And there is no outgassing with the MDF they use. I have used it in the rain, fog, snow, cold, heat, in the studio, and I love it. Lots of movements and lots of bellows. Damn thing is indestructable. I'ev even dropped it and it held together.

[Sal Santamaura]

"...I promise not to post again until I have my very own 4 x 5 in hand..."

No need for such a promise. Just be sure you've checked the archives first. Then, if any questions you have weren't already answered, post away!