Fast Fixing Time

[Tim Povlick]

I was trying some stand development of Kodak Panatomic-X Aerographic II film #2412 film using Rodinal 100:1. The Fixer is Formulary TS-5.
The rule of thumb is fix for twice time it takes to clear. The film clears within 5 or 10 seconds. I am trying a fix time of 30-seconds. Does this make sense?

Also the Rodinal seemed to stain the edges brown, so will likely try something else, Pyro 510 maybe.

Thanks for any insight.

Regards,

_..--
Tim

[Leigh]

I've used Rodinal for over 50 years with a variety of films including Panatomix-X (not aero).

I have never experienced nor heard of any staining issue with it.

Of course, it's not designed to be used as a "stand" developer, so that might make a difference???

- Leigh

[Tim Povlick]

I've used Rodinal for over 50 years with a variety of films including Panatomix-X (not aero).

I have never experienced nor heard of any staining issue with it.

Of course, it's not designed to be used as a "stand" developer, so that might make a difference???

- Leigh

Hi Leigh,

I read somewhere that is was okay for stand D. Thanks for straightening that out. I'll try a different developer for the stand development.

Thank You,

Tim

[blueribbontea]

I have been fixing in TS-5 at about 1 minute. It really works fast.

Bill

[Doremus Scudder]

Twice the film clearing time is a standard rule-of-thumb. However, some maintain that three times the clearing time is better for modern films (including non tabular-grain films) due to the higher level of silver iodide in the emulsion that takes longer to fix completely.

Keep in mind also that the fixer exhausts during the fixation process, i.e., the clearing time after fixing is not going to be the same as before. Depending on the volume-to-area ratio, the clearing time can be significantly more after fixing. This is especially true of fresh fix used in relatively small volume to fix a large area of film. Your 2x time will likely be quite a bit different after fixing than before, which means you've just underfixed your film if you stick strictly to the time determined from the clip test before fixing.

Really, we should be basing our fixing times on the clearing time after fixing, but that is obviously impossible. It is possible, however, to build in a bit of a safety factor. Do a clip test immediately before and after fixing a few times to get an idea of how much the clearing time changes with your film and container and adjust your fixing time accordingly. For example, if you see a 10-15% increase in clearing time after fixing compared to before, you can just figure that in beforehand. My "standard" for tray-fixing 4x5 sheet film in batches of six with two 500ml fixing baths is: three times the clearing time plus 10% or the manufacturer's suggested fixing time, whichever is longer."

Also, I think that the manufacturer's minimum time should be a base line. Sure, sometimes the film clears in 30 seconds, but if the manufacturer says "fix for 3-5 minutes" I'm going to not fix shorter than that three minutes.

I often fix longer with some films in order to get rid of the persistent coupling dyes that tint the film base. Six minutes seems to work well for Tri-X...

At any rate, fixing film a bit longer does no damage, so it's better to err on the side of too long than too short.

Best,

Doremus

[ROL]

Also, I think that the manufacturer's minimum time should be a base line. Sure, sometimes the film clears in 30 seconds, but if the manufacturer says "fix for 3-5 minutes" I'm going to not fix shorter than that three minutes.

Which is precisely [sic] what I do. TF-4 clears film (i.e., mostly 5x7 Ilford these days) in 5 – 10 secs., but I keep it going to 3½ to 4 minutes, with agitation every 30 sec. in an 8x10 tray containing about a liter. The penalties for over-fixing film, within reason, are simply nowhere near as great as with paper. The liter is recycled at the end of a developing session into a half gallon jug of the stuff, poured off from my 4 gallon working strength container used in printing. The number of sheets, an/or rolls are kept track of on the jug, replaced well before before exceeding the manufacturer's recommended capacity.

[Tim Povlick]

I have been fixing in TS-5 at about 1 minute. It really works fast.

Bill

Hi Bill,

That's fast... Thanks for your response.

Best Regards,

Tim