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Songyun
20-May-2014, 06:56
I was looking at two 8.25in 6.8 gold rim dagors, the looks of the two (260984368135, 281151809043) are quite different. Does anyone know that it is just purely cosmetic, or the filter thread might be different? Is it due to the different shutters (rapix vs. compur) that the lens are mounted on?

Luis-F-S
20-May-2014, 06:59
They're both correct, I've seen both, I suspect it may have to do with the shutter mounting, or what they had available at the time.

Luis-F-S
21-May-2014, 06:04
It's amazing the ridiculous prices some ask on the web. If you look at the "Sold" listings, those should be around $400 to $600 lenses at most. Remember that the Golden Dagors were merely a cosmetic marketing gimmick. Not much difference between them and the non-golden versions. I'm not aware that the filter threads have any consistency in size or that they're even usable. Coating started somewhere around 77xxxxx serial # or so. I prefer Compur or Copal versions over the Rapax since I feel it's a more reliable shutter. Most of my Dagors/Artars I've remounted into Copal shutters, except for my Schneider 14" MC GD which I bought in Compur in 1987 for $895. When remounted, I've often had a larger size accessory thread cut into the mounting ring. My 2 's worth. L

115707

6" Golden, 6 1/2" WA (uncoated), & 9 1/2" Dagors in Copal Shutters. The 6" & 9 /12" have accessory mounting threads outside of the lens barrels for filters.

Jac@stafford.net
21-May-2014, 06:54
It's amazing the ridiculous prices some ask on the web. If you look at the "Sold" listings, those should be around $400 to $600 lenses at most. Remember that the Golden Dagors were merely a cosmetic marketing gimmick.

That seller usually has price of double to triple what a prudent buyer would consider.

Songyun
21-May-2014, 08:43
Thanks everyone, I like the compur/copal shutter better, as these shutters are easy to replace. So if I see a dagor lens barrel looks like (281151809043) then it is original fitted to compur, if I see a dagor lens barrel looks like the other one, it is not original fitted to compur, is that right? for a serial number > 77****.

Luis-F-S
21-May-2014, 09:58
Both of those lenses could be original mounts, I'm sure AOC used different mounts on different shutters depending on what they had in stock and what the customer ordered. My 6" was given to me as loose cells and I had Grimes mount them around $20 years ago. The Copal 0 cost around $125 new back then. The other two came in older shutters (Ilex & Compound) and I had them mounted onto Copal 1's that I bought off the web. I would not be overly concerned about whether they're new or original mounts as long as they were properly done. A lot of the original mounts you find are going to be in older shutters (Ilex, or some of the obsolete Copals). I'd almost rather buy a barrel lens and have Grimes mount it onto a new shutter if the price is right. Mounting right now runs north of $300 plus the shutter. L

goamules
21-May-2014, 10:17
I was looking at two 8.25in 6.8 gold rim dagors, the looks of the two (260984368135, 281151809043) are quite different. Does anyone know that it is just purely cosmetic, or the filter thread might be different? Is it due to the different shutters (rapix vs. compur) that the lens are mounted on?

There is a long running debate on if the Golden (correct name for gold rim) had a meaning, quality wise. If you search, you'll see at least a few subject matter experts that say Goerz did start using a new kind of alignment jig about the time they made the golden dagors. And that made for the best quality they'd ever had. I'm no expert, and most of those posters are long gone. I just don't want that history lost by naysayers that just assume and repeat "it was a marketing gimmick."

Luis-F-S
21-May-2014, 10:45
According to Eddie Bolsetsian whom I knew well over 20 years ago and bought several Goerz lenses from him that he personally mounted; he felt it was largely a marketing gimmick, although he did say that some of the later ones were better centered with a device he developed. In real world use, I doubt you'd see much (any) difference between a well made American Optical Co., Golden, Gold Dot or plain black rim Dagor. That comment doesn't necessarily apply to the Schenider Dagors which were all made much later. L

Drew Wiley
21-May-2014, 14:24
I have every reason to suspect the relatively rare Swiss Kern 210 dagor marketed under the Schneider label was better corrected in certain respects than the older equivalents, even though it was still single coated, and probably has a slightly smaller usable image circle than certain older ones, depending on the specific shutter
involved (sometimes the circle limits wide open were affected by mechanical vignetting, it seems).

goamules
22-May-2014, 09:17
Yeah, I only have one Gold Rim, and don't notice much difference between it and a few from pre WWI! They're all good.