Broken 45AII - repair questions

[AlexGard]

I'm on a ship, and the other day was taking some photos out on deck, the camera was mounted on a tripod at full working height. I went to mount a film holder and accidentally hit the mounting plate lever instead of the film back lever and the camera fell the full 1.8 meters onto solid steel decking, with my 210mm lens mounted to the front.

Being a solid steel surface and the camera being extended most of it's draw, it wasn't pretty. I know toyo's are tough, but this camera hit the (literal) deck hard.

The camera bounced a few times.

My mouth hung open as I watched it all happen in slomo.

I picked up the camera. First evalutation of damage was:

front standard totally screwed. Where the standard joins the drop bed, the bottom plate of the standard is split, so it comes away from the "swing" plane of the camera. The front standard and bellows was hanging freely, dangling around.

The back standard is slightly askew, looking directly from behind, it looks to be leaning to the right, with the left han side of the rear standard about 2mm higher than the right hand side of rear standard.

I played around and managed to wranged the front standard back onto its slider/gear/whatebver you call it. You can still have rise and some degree of tilft but shift and swing are totally unsecure. The front standard is busted where it connects to the drop bed. It needs to be replaced. I've manaaged to put it back together so that I can still close the camera and take a photo if I wasn't using shift or swing but after that it's ok, but will need surgery to bring it back to working cond.


emailed toyo for a repair about a week ago, havent heard back.


where can i get it repaired, will a frankenstein be expensive? gutted, I know its not a preciesion camera and the movements lost weren'te ones I used much anyway and I can probably get away with epoxy resin to fix the split part, but it's a great camera an want it in good working order...


any ideas or people hat might be able to repair it for me?

[koh303]

Cheaper to get another 45a.

[Deval]

you might try calling KEH. They have a flat fee repair service, but I'm not sure it they would repair that level of damage.

[jbenedict]

If cobbling it together allows you to shoot for now, you might be able to get used parts if you wait. Frequently there are view camera parts available on Ebay. You could set it up that Ebay would send you an e-mail when something you wanted was up for sale.

[Alan Gales]

If you find that it's cheaper to buy another camera than to fix the one you have then list it on Ebay, as is for parts. I'm sure you can get something out of it. I've been surprised at what I have gotten for broken items because someone needed a part.

[AlexGard]

The camera is back in working condition, although I think some epoxy resin might be needed to glue the bottom plate of the front standard where it joins the drop bed. It seems a tiny bit out of line at the rear standard but at least it is working and from what I can tell the bellows have survived.

[koh303]

In most cases, these metal frame bodies get slightly bent when dropped, something that cannot be corrected. You are best off replacing the whole unit and selling the busted one for parts. Jusr saw a 45a sell for 350$...
i cant think of a repair shop that will take this in for less then that...

[jbenedict]

you might try calling KEH. They have a flat fee repair service, but I'm not sure it they would repair that level of damage.

Flat *labor* fee. There isn't much to an LF camera and I could reduce it to a pile of parts in 15 min. and put it back together in about the same time. I don't know if I could properly take apart a shutter of a D300 and get it back together again. Parts will be the biggest cost here.

[Thom Bennett]

Toyo repair is actually under MAC Group. Contact Rita directly and she should be able to help you.


Rita Carter
Service Group
75 Virginia Rd, White Plains, NY 10603
914-347-3300 · RitaC@MACgroupUS.com

[Bob Salomon]

The camera is back in working condition, although I think some epoxy resin might be needed to glue the bottom plate of the front standard where it joins the drop bed. It seems a tiny bit out of line at the rear standard but at least it is working and from what I can tell the bellows have survived.

A "tiny bit out of line" means that there is a serious problem with the alignment. Yes, a view camera is made to be used with camera movements but it is also designed to be in alignment when needed.

Get a replacement. It is better then blowing shots!

[Kzphoto]

Toyo parts are handled by MAC Group: 914.347.3300. Call and ask for parts. Their parts team are very knowledgeable and they should be able to get you up and running. Best of luck!

[AlexGard]

I don't mind forking out a few hundred to get the camera repaired, rather than dish out a heap of cash for a new camera only to see this beloved toyo get ripped down to parts. havent even had it that long :(

at least I still have my sinar

[AlexGard]

Not sure if these pictures will work as I've hosted them on facebook (can't upload pics due to work computer and restricted internets and I'm on a ship)

Note how at the bottom of the camera on one side is slightly separated compared to the other side.
115853


115854

115855

115856

Damage to front standard, can get around this and hoping it can be glued up with some epoxy resin or something... although the locking mechanism for the bellows draw is slightly weakened, but workable.

Thoughts?

[koh303]

Alex,

That camera will never be straight again.

[AlexGard]

Shit.
I'm not too worried about shift or swing as it's neither of those are movements I use often, just rise and tilt, which thankfully still work, although the tilt is a little tender.

I really hope it's at least still usable and won't effect my images too much. Only one way to find out I guess but won't be home to develop any negs for at least another couple of months.

[koh303]

I am sure you can use it, but the front and rear standards will not be perfectly parallel. If you stop down you will not even notice it, as it is probably a minor angle, but you will notice it on critical focus if you look close enough. Just use and when you get back just get another camera, many folding metal 4X5's to be had for small $$...

[David Lobato]

I've had the same camera, 45A, for 26 years. They are very durable but as we know there's a limit to that. Those bent parts are castings and the aluminum has a tendency to crack after slight deformation. An attempt to straighten parts may make the problem worse. I hope you can limp along with it until you get a replacement. Several parts should be kept for spares, the back, lens boards, bellows, knobs, etc.

[AlexGard]

Such a shame because I've grown so attached to it in the relatively short amount of time I've had it. Hate to think it should be replaced.
How devastating.

[koh303]

You will get another 45aII, and sell this broken one for parts, and will end up wither no money spent, or some cash left in hand, guaranteed, just take your time.
That is if you want another one (and not say, a technikardan, or a canham DLC, which OMG, sells for less then a 45aII....)

[AlexGard]

How much, judging by the damage in the pictures I posted, would be a realistic listing price for the broken camera? i've found a few on ebay, one for $750 with a leaky bellows and missing rubber knob...

I don't think I'd want anything any less robust than this toyo, considering how short amount of time it took for me to broke a "tough-as-nails" camera. I'm scared for my newly-acquired 8x10 tachi...

[jbenedict]

How much, judging by the damage in the pictures I posted, would be a realistic listing price for the broken camera? i've found a few on ebay, one for $750 with a leaky bellows and missing rubber knob...

I don't think I'd want anything any less robust than this toyo, considering how short amount of time it took for me to broke a "tough-as-nails" camera. I'm scared for my newly-acquired 8x10 tachi...

It's with what you can get someone to give you for it.

Two ways:

1. Put it on E-bay for a week with a low/no reserve and take what you get.

2. Put it on E-bay for a week with a really high reserve ($1500-2000) and see how high the bids go.
Take the high bid from the high reserve sale and put a reserve about $100 below that reserve and do another week sale.

[koh303]

There is no such thing as a "2 meter fall on to hard steel proof" camera. Just make sure to not drop the second one :) and it will last longer.
If you do not have to have the II a 45a sells for under 500$ in most cases. I can only guestimate that you will get more then that for your parts camera in a free running auction.
You can also get a technika III or IV for about the same amount if thats your thing, or a metal wista/horsman for the same amount more or less.

[AlexGard]

i picked up a 45AII with negligible cosmetic wear for $750. Once I swap the bellows over and figure I can flog my busted one for whatever, it's probably going to end up costing me as much as I would have hoped to pay in repairs anyway.

just hope I can get rid of the busted camera relatively easily :P how many people "wreck" these things?

[Alan Gales]

just hope I can get rid of the busted camera relatively easily :P how many people "wreck" these things?

All you need is one person looking for parts.

I wouldn't start the auction at .99 in case there is only one person interested. For example you could start the auction at $200.00 (or whatever price you choose) and if it doesn't sell lower it $50.00 for the next round. I do this sometimes on items. It's funny because something won't sell at a certain price so I'll lower it $50.00 and it ends up selling for more than I originally asked for. With Ebay it depends a lot upon who is watching when.

Good luck, Alex!