PDA

View Full Version : Quick Question- what is 'standard' lens for 20x24 format?



dimento
9-May-2014, 00:55
Very simple question, what is the focal length of as close to standard lens for 20x24 format cameras?

would it be something like 1200mm?

I'm guessing the lenses are rare as hen's teeth.

many thanks, D

grzybu
9-May-2014, 01:27
If by standard you mean focal length close to film diagonal then it will be about 31" (800mm). This will be equivalent to about 43mm in 35mm film format.

dimento
9-May-2014, 03:05
If by standard you mean focal length close to film diagonal then it will be about 31" (800mm). This will be equivalent to about 43mm in 35mm film format. great, thanks, what would be the next step up then, and would the main contemporary manufacturers like Nikon, Rodenstock, Schneider have mad say an 800 and whatever the next step up would be?

Mark Sampson
9-May-2014, 08:02
Before you worry about what a 'normal' lens for that format is, do some research. Find out what the people who shoot 20x24 actually use; you might be surprised. It seems the usual rules about focal length (that apply to smaller formats) don't work as well scaled up to mammoth size. Two people who shoot 20x24 and post here are Tracy Storer and Monty McCutchen; I'd ask them.

Sheldon N
9-May-2014, 09:09
What is a "normal" focal length will depend on what you intend on shooting, primarily the degree of magnification needed. If you're shooting at infinity then 800mm will give you a normal field of view. However, if you intend to shoot portraits with a 20x24 then you are going to be in macro territory. Even a loosely framed portrait is going to be 1:1 magnification and will cut the field of view of your 800mm lens in half, giving it the angular field of view of something like a 1600mm lens and the resulting perspective of the photo will be more like a traditional short telephoto portrait since you'll need to back the camera up to frame the shot.

So think about how much magnification you'll need for the images you want in addition to the angle of view that you want for the images, since both are key factors in the lens choice.

Steve Goldstein
9-May-2014, 09:20
There was a 20x24 setup in the vendor room when the View Camera Conference was held in Massachusetts some years ago. It had a 600mm Fujinon-C mounted on it. I don't recall who was showing it or why, just the lens and that the camera was BIG.

David Lobato
9-May-2014, 10:08
What is a "normal" focal length will depend on what you intend on shooting, primarily the degree of magnification needed. If you're shooting at infinity then 800mm will give you a normal field of view. However, if you intend to shoot portraits with a 20x24 then you are going to be in macro territory. Even a loosely framed portrait is going to be 1:1 magnification and will cut the field of view of your 800mm lens in half, giving it the angular field of view of something like a 1600mm lens and the resulting perspective of the photo will be more like a traditional short telephoto portrait since you'll need to back the camera up to frame the shot.

So think about how much magnification you'll need for the images you want in addition to the angle of view that you want for the images, since both are key factors in the lens choice.

What Sheldon said. Plus, for portraits the bellows draw gets longer making the setup a little more difficult. The difference between an 800mm lens and 600mm lens can be significant. Remember 1:1 magnification needs 2 stops more exposure which adds the requirement for more intense lighting.

dimento
9-May-2014, 14:33
thanks for all the info guys, I don't have a camera yet but am mulling some ideas over in my head. Will speak to the members mentioned above who shoot 20x24, thanks, Damian

adelorenzo
9-May-2014, 19:44
20x24 Studios (http://www.20x24studio.com/?page_id=1653) has some info about their camera:

What lenses are used on the 2024 Camera?

The New York Studio offers focal lengths of 1200mm, 800mm, 600mm, 360mm, 210mm, and 135mm. Only the 1200, 800, and 600 were designed for the 2024 format. Translated into inches these are 48 inch, 31 inch, and 24 inch lenses. The bellows of the camera extends from 17 to 60 inches and each of these lenses will provide different levels of magnification at different bellows extension. The 24 inch lens (600) has the most range of magnification, allowing landscapes at infinity all the way up to 1.5 times lifesize. The shorter focal lengths, which are actually 810 and 45 lenses provide magnifications from 1.5 times life-size all the way up to 10x. As magnification increases, depth of field decreases and subject to lens distance decreases. At extreme magnification, it becomes more difficult to light the subject, because it is so close and the bellows extension factor can lose up to 8 or 9 stops of light.

dimento
10-May-2014, 01:46
20x24 Studios (http://www.20x24studio.com/?page_id=1653) has some info about their camera:

What lenses are used on the 2024 Camera?

The New York Studio offers focal lengths of 1200mm, 800mm, 600mm, 360mm, 210mm, and 135mm. Only the 1200, 800, and 600 were designed for the 2024 format. Translated into inches these are 48 inch, 31 inch, and 24 inch lenses. The bellows of the camera extends from 17 to 60 inches and each of these lenses will provide different levels of magnification at different bellows extension. The 24 inch lens (600) has the most range of magnification, allowing landscapes at infinity all the way up to 1.5 times lifesize. The shorter focal lengths, which are actually 810 and 45 lenses provide magnifications from 1.5 times life-size all the way up to 10x. As magnification increases, depth of field decreases and subject to lens distance decreases. At extreme magnification, it becomes more difficult to light the subject, because it is so close and the bellows extension factor can lose up to 8 or 9 stops of light.

that's really helpful, thanks, Damian

Bernard_L
10-May-2014, 03:02
If you do not have a clear idea of what angle of view (focal length / film format) is right for you, e.g. from practice with smaller formats, do you think you are ready for the significant purchase of such ULF equipment? Like going into a fancy+expensive restaureant and asking other people "what do you think I should have?".

dimento
10-May-2014, 03:37
If you do not have a clear idea of what angle of view (focal length / film format) is right for you, e.g. from practice with smaller formats, do you think you are ready for the significant purchase of such ULF equipment? Like going into a fancy+expensive restaureant and asking other people "what do you think I should have?".

I shoot with a standard 150 on 4x5, 210 on 5x7 and 300 on 8x10, so I'm pretty settled on which focal lengths suit me and I'm doing some preliminary research and have no intention of "going into a fancy restaurant..... etc" .... but thanks anyway

goamules
10-May-2014, 05:39
You have to know when you've bit off more than you can chew. I'm committed to shooting some 5x7 portrait studios but Vintage cameras are not for me. I bought a Seneca "Improved" 5x7 privately and realized quickly that photography with a vintage camera isn't for me. ...


I guess I'm confused too, you just spent a month writing a lot of posts asking about 5x7s, finally buying a Seneca, then post the above (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?113400-WTB-WTT-for-5x7-camera&p=1136434&viewfull=1#post1136434). You had it, what, 2 weeks? Not a lot of time to decide you don't like a camera. I'm just saying, if you go out and buy 20x24 and lens, and some film to fit it, you are going to spend thousands. I'd be cautious.

dimento
10-May-2014, 05:53
I guess I'm confused too, you just spent a month writing a lot of posts asking about 5x7s, finally buying a Seneca, then post the above (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?113400-WTB-WTT-for-5x7-camera&p=1136434&viewfull=1#post1136434). You had it, what, 2 weeks? Not a lot of time to decide you don't like a camera. I'm just saying, if you go out and buy 20x24 and lens, and some film to fit it, you are going to spend thousands. I'd be cautious.

fair point, but like I say, just some research. I don't have the $$ to go out and buy a 20x24 setup, just doing some basic research. I am uber-cautious when it comes to spending large amounts of money, especially when I don't have it. Most of my LF equipment was bought relatively cheaply.

But this thread is wandering a little off course, and I only wanted to know what an approximate standard lens for 20x24 would be, unfortunately I don't have a large wedge of cash burning a hole in my pocket with Richard Ritter's name on it. Just asking a question from those who might know the answer, and now slightly regretting it.

ic-racer
10-May-2014, 08:27
and I only wanted to know what an approximate standard lens for 20x24 would be, .

If you have a ruler and a piece of 20x24 paper, just measure the diagonal. You can convert inches to millimeters by multiplying by 25.4. You can also use the Pythagorean theorem to solve for the diagonal.

Mark Sawyer
10-May-2014, 09:11
"Quick Question- what is 'standard' lens for 20x24 format? "

28 inches.

StoneNYC
10-May-2014, 09:18
This might help you.....

115151

You'll have to extrapolate from the last column but you get the idea, essentially 800mm or 1200mm depending on what you think "normal" is.

And of course as others say, it changes depending on the subject matter.

Monty McCutchen
12-May-2014, 11:20
For all my film work my main lens for my 20 x 24 set up is the Schneider 550 XXL lens. A 22 inch lens. I would love to have the XXL in the 1100 they make but my money ran out a long time ago so I don't really expect that to happen. I also have a Germonar (sp) 1000 mm lens that is single coated. I have a Dallmeyer 3A that I keep intending to try out at for portraits to see if with enough bellows extension it will cover for in excess of one to one but haven't gotten around to that project. For one to one portraits I have found you would never use 'longer than normal' as you would in smaller formats as the bellows extension becomes unrealistic. It's counter-intuitive but the smaller length lens that you use is better suited for head and shoulders or one to one portrait photography. To state the obvious knowing what you want out of your camera and photography will be helpful in choosing the set up that works. I do quite a bit of portraits and for my landscape work i have enjoyed creating images that take in quite a bit of information and the shorter focal length works to my way of seeing. On those occasions that I want to compress the image a bit more then the 1000mm lens comes out, but its not used nearly as often as the Schneider 550.

For my 20 x 24 Wet Plate work both glass and Aluminum plates I use two lenses. A Dallmeyer 30 inch Rapid Rectilinear for head and shoulder portraits, and a Dallmeyer 8D 37 inch lens for full body portraits and landscapes. The RR is manageable in size but the 37 inch lens is commitment!

Hope that is helpful. Good luck in your pursuits.

Monty McCutchen

dimento
17-May-2014, 09:18
For all my film work my main lens for my 20 x 24 set up is the Schneider 550 XXL lens. A 22 inch lens. I would love to have the XXL in the 1100 they make but my money ran out a long time ago so I don't really expect that to happen. I also have a Germonar (sp) 1000 mm lens that is single coated. I have a Dallmeyer 3A that I keep intending to try out at for portraits to see if with enough bellows extension it will cover for in excess of one to one but haven't gotten around to that project. For one to one portraits I have found you would never use 'longer than normal' as you would in smaller formats as the bellows extension becomes unrealistic. It's counter-intuitive but the smaller length lens that you use is better suited for head and shoulders or one to one portrait photography. To state the obvious knowing what you want out of your camera and photography will be helpful in choosing the set up that works. I do quite a bit of portraits and for my landscape work i have enjoyed creating images that take in quite a bit of information and the shorter focal length works to my way of seeing. On those occasions that I want to compress the image a bit more then the 1000mm lens comes out, but its not used nearly as often as the Schneider 550.

For my 20 x 24 Wet Plate work both glass and Aluminum plates I use two lenses. A Dallmeyer 30 inch Rapid Rectilinear for head and shoulder portraits, and a Dallmeyer 8D 37 inch lens for full body portraits and landscapes. The RR is manageable in size but the 37 inch lens is commitment!

Hope that is helpful. Good luck in your pursuits.

Monty McCutchen

That's really helpful Monty, thanks. Your name was mentioned in a previous reply and I wasn't sure how to contact you. I won't be buying into the 20x24 system anytime soon, I had some business ideas for the system I wanted to figure out, and knowing what focal lengths of lenses I should be looking at wa spart of the figuring out the whole system cost and whether my ideas were viable. Thanks, D