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tnord
24-Apr-2014, 11:07
I recently bought a Fujinon W 300mm 5,6 with a copal 3 shutter for my Deardorff v8 (8x10).
I have two lens boards for the camera, one with a hole for copal 1 and one with a hole for copal 3.
So I felt safe buying a lens with a copal 3 shutter – but no, the lens can't be mounted...
It would fit if the lens board was 1-2 mm thick, but my board is 10 mm thick.
(The hole is slightly wider than what the lens require – I guess the hole is for copal 3 and the shutter is copal 3s but I don't see that as a problem).
I hope the images explain my problem: I think I need another ring that locks the board to the shutter, the thread on the one I have now is too narrow for the thick board.
How do I solve this? Bying a new ring (where?, with which specs?) or a new board (with which specs?)? Or selling the lens and buy another (No!)?
I thought that a lens board drilled for a copal 3 would fit any copal 3...

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ic-racer
24-Apr-2014, 11:18
If you are not very handy with these things, you could get a Deardorff to Linhof lensboard adapter. Otherwise you will probably have to get a new mounting ring and spacer. SK Grimes can fix you up (ring prices from the SK Grimes site) (adapter board from the Deardorff site)

Copal #3 -Obsolete 60- M.75 6075R $60 6040F $45 Retaining Ring supplied with Spacer. Fits a 65mm hole.

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tnord
24-Apr-2014, 11:42
Great, thank you ic-racer!
I think I will go of a new mounting ring and spacer – I think it will look better on my dear(dorff) than a Linhof board...

Just to make sure I got it right:
From SK Grimes (http://www.skgrimes.com/products/mounting-flanges/metric-stock-flanges)
I order this: Copal #3 -Obsolete
(Not this: Copal 585 #3S Fuji/Copal #3)

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koh303
25-Apr-2014, 09:59
Here is my setup for the same lens and deardorff V8 board:
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Basically the retaining ring has 4 drill holes, and the back of the board is conical to accept the rear element's shape.
So you attach the ring to the board with 4 screws, then screw on the shutter and front element, then screw on the rear element.
I am fairly sure you can just dill out your ring to do this. Might not be super accurate but it will work just fine.

David Lobato
25-Apr-2014, 10:30
tnord, your lens board needs a counterbore with a 2mm thin section and a diameter large enough for the retainer ring. My Deardorff 8x10 lens boards all have this. It's needed for any size shutter that will go into it. The person who made mine was familiar with these dimensional requirements and his parts have worked well for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterbore

SK Grimes calls it a lip thickness.
http://www.skgrimes.com/products/lens-boards/deardorff

koh303
25-Apr-2014, 10:54
tnord, your lens board needs a counterbore with a 2mm thin section and a diameter large enough for the retainer ring. My Deardorff 8x10 lens boards all have this. It's needed for any size shutter that will go into it. The person who made mine was familiar with these dimensional requirements and his parts have worked well for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterbore

SK Grimes calls it a lip thickness.
http://www.skgrimes.com/products/lens-boards/deardorff

+1
forgot to mention that would have saved me a ton of time in mounting this 300mm the way i ended up doing it.

Bob Salomon
25-Apr-2014, 13:45
There are two types of mounting rings for shutters.
One is the the retaining ring and spacer which seems to be what you have.
The other is a mounting flange which gets screwed onto the front of the board with 3 or 4 small screws and the shutter then screws onto the flange.

Try finding the flange type mount.

tnord
25-Apr-2014, 23:07
Thank you David, koh303 and Bob for answering – and for making me more confused than I was after reading id-racers reply ;-)
I have already ordered the set "Copal #3 -Obsolete" from SKGrimes (http://www.skgrimes.com/products/mou...-stock-flanges).

Are you saying that this will not solve my problem, or is it an option to carve my lens board or to get a flange type mount?

I haven't got an order confirmation from SKGrimes yet so I will cancel the order a s a p if it doesn't solve my problem.
($ 100 + shipping to Sweden is to much to use on something I can't use...)

koh303
26-Apr-2014, 05:10
Thank you David, koh303 and Bob for answering – and for making me more confused than I was after reading id-racers reply ;-)
I have already ordered the set "Copal #3 -Obsolete" from SKGrimes (http://www.skgrimes.com/products/mou...-stock-flanges).

Are you saying that this will not solve my problem, or is it an option to carve my lens board or to get a flange type mount?

I haven't got an order confirmation from SKGrimes yet so I will cancel the order a s a p if it doesn't solve my problem.
($ 100 + shipping to Sweden is to much to use on something I can't use...)

For 100$ you can order 10 new lens boards with the correct hole and lip to mount your lens with the current ring.
Check ebay for a flange for copal 3 if you prefer.

John Koehrer
26-Apr-2014, 11:24
You may be able to find a local cabinet maker or wood worker to cut the recess you need. It shouldn't be expensive(he said, being an optimist.)
A front mounted flange may work IF the rear group can screw all the way into the shutter.

tnord
27-Apr-2014, 01:28
Is my problem solved if I get the board carved and I buy this http://www.ebay.com/itm/141027063340 ? Is this definately the right flange for my shutter? (Don't want to wait 10 days for the item to arrive just to relise I have to start my search all over again...)

koh303
27-Apr-2014, 08:18
you might want to look at this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lens-Retaining-Retain-Ring-for-Copal-3-3-/281282286813?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item417dbb14dd

If you do cone or dremmel out a lip on your board.

The ring in the link you posted above may not be long enough to clear the thickness of the board and allow enough room for the rear cell to screw in, though it might be worth a try as you will not need to make any modifications to your board if you get that one you posted.

Jon Shiu
27-Apr-2014, 08:48
Is my problem solved if I get the board carved and I buy this http://www.ebay.com/itm/141027063340 ? Is this definately the right flange for my shutter? (Don't want to wait 10 days for the item to arrive just to relise I have to start my search all over again...)
They sell it cheaper at their website: www.mpex.com and can answer any questions you may have. Also, since it is a deep ring, you won't have to counterbore your wooden board.

Jon

tnord
27-Apr-2014, 11:49
Thank you all for great respons!
To wrap things up: If I go for the easiest solution and buy the "Copal #3 Mounting Flange" form apex.com (http://mpex.com/copal-3-mounting-flange.html) I will be able to mount my lens to the lens board without any other parts or actions, right?

koh303
27-Apr-2014, 13:37
yes. let us know how it turns out.

tnord
27-Apr-2014, 13:40
Great, will order tomorrow (it's bedtime in Sweden now). I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks again!

tnord
28-Apr-2014, 06:46
Hello, again...
Today I met a colleague who happens to have a lens (Schneider Symmar-S 5.6/240) in a copal #3 with a mounting flange that looks identical to the one I was about to order. I borrowed his flange and it fits well to my lens board but it is wider than the mount thread on my shutter. (See images: my lens/shutter to the left, the other (Schneider) to the right, mount flange in the middle.)
As Nicholas F Jones describe in another thread on this forum (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?31828-Copal-3-shutters-two-sizes) "...the Copal #3 shutter comes in two sizes, the 3-585 (M62-0.75 mount thread; fits 65mm lensboard hole) and the slightly smaller 3-567 (M61-0.75 mount thread; fits 64.1mm lensboard hole)". Mine must be the latter one and the flange fits the first one.
Since I haven't found any other mounting flange for copal #3 anywhere on the web I suspect this is the only copal #3 flange there is. Is that right? If so, buying that flange is not a solution to my problem.
So what is my solution?
If I go for koh303's solution: carve my board and buy the retaining ring, how can I make sure to get a ring that fits my shutter (= slightly smaller than the ring for the copal #3 that my colleague owns)?

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koh303
28-Apr-2014, 08:26
OK - i just found something yesterday after playing around with my fuji 300. It is in fact not a copal 3 but a copal 3S (s for small).
There are a number of measurement threads on LFPF describing the actual size of the threads on the 3S. You should get a 3S flange or ring.

Sorry about the misinformation. The shutter on my lens does not say anything other then copal, andeyeballing it it looks fairly close to the Copal 3, but isent. another copal 3s shutter and ring have confirmed this.

tnord
29-Apr-2014, 00:02
The strange thing is that I can't find any rings or flanges that is for copal 3s, all I have found is the page at SK Grimes that ic-racer pointed to earlier in this thread: http://www.skgrimes.com/products/mounting-flanges/metric-stock-flanges.
ic-racer suggested this: "Copal #3 -Obsolete 60- M.75 6075R $60 6040F $45 Retaining Ring supplied with Spacer. Fits a 65mm hole." but now I'm not sure that this is the right one since it doesn't say 3s... And buying from SK Grimes will cost me $ 105 + shipping to Sweden...
I'm going to find someone that can help me drill a counterbore in my board, but I still need a retainer ring that fits 3s.
koh303: do you have any suggestions to where I can get the same ring that you have? You obviously have the same copal as I do, mine too says "copal" only, no number.

I find it strange that this is so hard to solve, I can't be the only one having a Copal 3s and a 6x6 Deardorff lens board...

LF_rookie_to_be
29-Apr-2014, 06:03
They sell it cheaper at their website: www.mpex.com and can answer any questions you may have. Also, since it is a deep ring, you won't have to counterbore your wooden board.

Jon

Strange, they don't sell #1 flange (M39, right?). Where to get that particular flange?

koh303
29-Apr-2014, 06:54
Let me look into this again.

You already have a retaining ring that fits the lens - i think the easiest solution would be to bore out a small lip (0.5cm) on the back side of your lens board, in the same way mine was done, only you should do it properly with the correct tool.

Failing that - getting 4 wide machine stile screws to create a retaining bracket for your current ring to be mounted like a flange on the front side of the board might be an easy solution as well, but i would go for the rear option first.

tnord
30-Apr-2014, 03:31
Solved!
koh303 gave me the solution in his first answer. (Sometimes the nose is too close to the eyes to see it...).
I jumped on my bike and rode for 7 min to a local wood worker who drilled a counter hole 80 mm wide and violá! my lens is attached to my board!
So simple that I almost feel like apologizing for this whole thread, but I guess it can be useful for someone else in the future...
Thank you all for giving me suggestions/answers, they all helped in their own ways :-)
Now to the shooting!

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Be good!

koh303
30-Apr-2014, 07:01
!!!
Perfect!