how to record a full image circle on 4x5

[wthaler]

hello,

I hope this was not coverd by now, at least I did not find anything about it.
I would like to record a full image circle on 4x5". the closest option I found by now is an Angulon 65/6,8 which has an image circle of 109mm according to the schneider website. that is unfortunatley still a bit too much for the 4x5.
5x8 inch would be too complicated for me, I would like a way to make it work for 4x5.
Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?

[Light Guru]

You will need to use a lens designed for a camera smaller then 4x5.

[David Lobato]

You will need a lens with an image circle smaller than 4 inches. Look for 6x7 or 6x9 medium format camera lenses with leaf shutters.

[Oren Grad]

Don't forget that the image circle gets proportionately larger as you focus in from infinity.

[blueribbontea]

Even the lenses from an old Kodak folder, like a 616 roll film camera would probably be too much. How about a lens and shutter from a 35mm Retina?

Bill

[sanking]

hello,

I hope this was not coverd by now, at least I did not find anything about it.
I would like to record a full image circle on 4x5". the closest option I found by now is an Angulon 65/6,8 which has an image circle of 109mm according to the schneider website. that is unfortunatley still a bit too much for the 4x5.
5x8 inch would be too complicated for me, I would like a way to make it work for 4x5.
Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?


38mm Biogon f/4.5 makes a beautiful circle on 4X5" film.

Sandy

[Carsten Wolff]

The 58mm Omegon may work (image circle about 100mm); You can also physically vignette any lens by either adding a snoot, or even a piece of cut out cardboard to the front of your lens
Using a 5x7 camera adds loads of options of course.

[jose angel]

Probably the simplest&cheapest way on a 4x5" is to use an enlarging lens. Maybe you can attach a L39 medium format one (75-105mm) on a #1 lens board in any way.

[Jim Noel]

A 101mm Ektar will produce a full circle image which barely touches the 4" width of 4x5 at infinity. Something in the 75-80mm range off a roll film camera will enable focusing closer and stil have the full circle. You do not want a wide angle designed lens. Perhaps a 120-135 telephoto meant for 6x9cm would also work. Haunt the local thrift shops.

[Jac@stafford.net]

38mm Biogon f/4.5 makes a beautiful circle on 4X5" film.

A virtue of the 38mm Biogon is that apparent coverage (or rather light distribution) does not change as it is stopped down.

[Peter Gomena]

I recently purchased an old, uncoated 75mm Schneider Radionar (triplet design) that had been separated from a Balda 6x6 folder. It makes a very nice circle on 4x5. Interestingly, the circle gets smaller as the lens is stopped down. I think that is an effect of the edge of the circle coming into focus.

[wthaler]

thank you all for your for input an ideas.

biogon might be a rather luxurious option.

I will get now a Xenar 75/3,5 on a Compur, a rather rare combination I think, it has a 85mm circle according to the schneiders website, it was the standard lens for Rolleicord, that sounds nice to me and I will see how it works out.

wolfgang

[Jac@stafford.net]

biogon might be a rather luxurious option.

Do it right the first time or pay twice to realize the solution. Large format is not for the casual enthusiast.

[wthaler]

Maybe that Radionar is more or less the same as then the Xenar.

[jose angel]

Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?
I have just recall that I did something similar, but the other way around; I took a full image on film, but I printed it on paper using a smaller format enlarging`lens. So I got a circular image, but on the paper.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I have just recall that I did something similar, but the other way around; I took a full image on film, but I printed it on paper using a smaller format enlarging`lens. So I got a circular image, but on the paper.

For real?

[Steve Goldstein]

A fellow I know put a 30mm Arsat onto an old Speed-Graphic body.

http://www.half-fast.com/

[sun of sand]

many raptar enlarging lenses will actually nearly cover 4x5
"illuminate" with some mush towards corners
even 75mm
90 and 91mm enalrging raptars on 4x5 are at least better than say a holga lens.


I've always wondered what the differences are between these type of enlarging lenses that appear much like rangefinder lenses from the same company only on a barrel

I've hacked a few raptars and ektar enlarging lenses onto digital and they've been quite ok


anyway




I think photos framed by an oval are very nice
don't see it too often
too romantic i guess

[Andy Eads]

With some modification (removing the lens shade petals), the 37mm Mamiya Fish Eye for the RB 67 makes a wonderful circular image on 4x5. I used this configuration to photograph the interior of a nuclear reactor many moons ago. I bought a lens mount (repair part) and afixed it to a Linhof Kardan lens board on the Linhof camera. We made 40" prints with very good sharpness.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

I've always wondered what the differences are between these type of enlarging lenses that appear much like rangefinder lenses from the same company only on a barrel

Hello from France
Actually some tessar or triplet designs or dialyte (4/4) symmetric lenses were used both as taking lenses and enlarging lenses.
The Apo Ronar (4/4) can be used as a taking lens or as en enlarging lens. As an enlarging lens its only practical limitatation (outside the limit of the image circle) is the modest aperture of f/9 to be compared to f/5.6 or f/4 for some modern enlarging lenses.
Hasselblad had on its catalogue a mounting ring named lens mounting flange, you could use your Hasselblad taking lens as an enlarging lens by mounting this flange to your enlarger head and attaching the lens bayonet to the flange.

Some Boyer lenses, according to Dan Fromm, are not precisely identified as being taking or enlarging lenses.
http://www.galerie-photo.com/boyer-lens-optic.html

QUOTING D.W.F :
Taking lens or enlarging lens? Boyer sold Topaz and Tessar type Saphir lenses as taking lenses and as enlarging lenses. In addition, they sold plasmat type Saphir B and BX lenses exclusively as enlarging lenses. A Rolyn Optics sales brochure asserts that “Boyer are the first optical manufacturers to mass-produce lenses specially computed for photographic enlarging,” so DF found it reasonable to expect lenses Boyer sold for enlarging to perform poorly as taking lenses at distance. EB, however, reports that between 1935 and 1960 only special objectives, usually with name ending in “-B,” were specially computed for enlarging. In the Topaz and Tessar type Saphir lines taking and enlarging lenses were identical; Saphir BX lenses are identical to Zircon taking lenses. Only Saphir Bs were computed especially for enlarging; EB says they were optimized for 5x enlargements and were intended to be used at f/11. In the Beryl line, reprographic lenses, including the Emeraude, and taking lenses are identical.


Modern 6-element enlarging lenses delivering very high quality images are optimized for a certain enlargement ratio e.g. between 2X and 10X for example. It means in principle that you'll be able to get good images as a taking lenses provided that you take a picture at magnification ratios between 1/10 and 1/2.

--

And now regarding the project of recording a full image circle delivered by a LF lens, another approach with a lens designed for the 4x5" format is to use 5x7" film like in this DIY project by Gilles Barbier.
The text is in French but the examples of images recorded on a 5x7" film with an old 90mm Schneider-Angulon-Not-Super are self-explanatory.
http://www.galerie-photo.com/barbier-hybis-90.html

[hoffner]

hello,

I would like to record a full image circle on 4x5".
5x8 inch would be too complicated for me, I would like a way to make it work for 4x5.
Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?

[QUOTE=Emmanuel BIGLER;1133212
Hello from France
--

And now regarding the project of recording a full image circle delivered by a LF lens, another approach with a lens designed for the 4x5" format is to use 5x7" film like in this DIY project by Gilles Barbier.
[/QUOTE]

It pays to read the OP, Emmanuel. :rolleyes:

[hoffner]

You can also physically vignette any lens by either adding a snoot, or even a piece of cut out cardboard to the front of your lens
Using a 5x7 camera adds loads of options of course.

You can vignette whatever lens at its rear end too...

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

It pays to read the OP, Emmanuel.

And since I had, of course, read what the OP said : Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment? (now I'm definitely richer having being paid)

... simply have a look at Gilles Barbier's article and scale everything by a factor 0.7 (Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?) ;);)

[hoffner]

It pays to read the OP, Emmanuel.

And since I had, of course, read what the OP said : Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment? (now I'm definitely richer having being paid)

... simply have a look at Gilles Barbier's article and scale everything by a factor 0.7 (Has somebody any idea or experience with this type of experiment?) ;);)

"This type of experiment" in your understanding pertains to 5x7 format which the OP expressly didn't wish? Strange. So why don't you explain now how you scale a 5x7 format and its lens "by a factor 0.7"?
Gilles' article I read - it didn't take long to see that he speaks about a format the OP didn't want to use. Étrange, n'est-ce pas?:rolleyes:

[Carsten Wolff]

The 58mm Omegon may work (image circle about 100mm); You can also physically vignette any lens by either adding a snoot, or even a piece of cut out cardboard to the front of your lens
Using a 5x7 camera adds loads of options of course.

Update: I just tried a 75mm f2.9 Lens off an old Braun Paxina: Image circle 99mm wide open at infinity.

[Brian C. Miller]

Spiratone fisheye attachment.

116354

I bought a Nikkor 150mm lens just for this lens attachment. The fisheye lens attachment comes with different adapters, but the only one that fit anything close to a common filter thread was the Nikkor.

And as everybody else said, use a lens for a smaller format. Note, though, that the circle of illumination may be larger than the rated format, so your mileage will definitely vary.