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Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 16:50
A little while ago I wrote, "Flash in the pan." on the TMY thread, as a joke. But it is obviously an old joke, maybe 150 years old.

Last year I bought a nice camera that came with a complete Flash Powder outfit. The Pan was NOS, and it came with a jug of Flash Powder and Ignitor Caps that look like 22 blanks. The Flash Pan has a rig to trigger the caps.

So I just Googled and found this nice video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mxosDz8678 on PetaPixel.

Does anybody use this stuff? Reenactors maybe?

I may have asked this before, pardon my bad memory.

BetterSense
16-Apr-2014, 17:55
I've played with it. It can be extremely bright, turning night into day. Quite dangerous while mixing and prepping.

Jac@stafford.net
16-Apr-2014, 18:06
So I just Gohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mxosDz8678 on PetaPixel.
For the sake of brevity, you can post a specific start-point in a youtube flic.

Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 18:10
OK Jac, next time, but the guy wanted to make his safety speech.


For the sake of brevity, you can post a specific start-point in a youtube flic.

Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 18:11
I have a premixed OE jug. It was shipped USPS, I expected a knock on my door...

I was surprised, since I didn't know it was coming with the camera.


I've played with it. It can be extremely bright, turning night into day. Quite dangerous while mixing and prepping.

Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 18:18
Also his raw ingredients are different from some formulas I have seen.

I do not want this to be 'How to make it thread', but rather find people who have tried it.

Tim Meisburger
16-Apr-2014, 18:30
I would like to try it, but have not been able to find flash powder in Bangkok. You could do some cool night-time stuff with it. Plus it explodes!

Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 18:40
I think I need more insurance...

Joining PPA tomorrow. Really!

Nathan Potter
16-Apr-2014, 19:06
Yes, I used it years ago as a flash source for photographing animals at night when I was not present. Set off using a fine trip wire which closed a 45 volt battery circuit. The battery was connected to a short piece of old galvanized window screening which instantly heated and ignited the powder. Typically used about 1/8 to 1/4 lb. of powder. There are a variety of powder formulations for the do-it-yourselfer, but such activity is frowned upon now-a-days since the powder is classified as an explosive. If you choose to imbibe do it very discreetly.

Dunno, maybe one can actually buy the powder somewhere.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Tin Can
16-Apr-2014, 19:19
Interesting, bet that spooked some critters.

Great fuse, reminds me of model rockets I used to terrorize the neighbors with.

It's easy to make, and many ways to make it. I won't be doing the old English method using enforced by law storage of chamber pot contents. It was once illegal to waste the precious leavings!


Yes, I used it years ago as a flash source for photographing animals at night when I was not present. Set off using a fine trip wire which closed a 45 volt battery circuit. The battery was connected to a short piece of old galvanized window screening which instantly heated and ignited the powder. Typically used about 1/8 to 1/4 lb. of powder. There are a variety of powder formulations for the do-it-yourselfer, but such activity is frowned upon now-a-days since the powder is classified as an explosive. If you choose to imbibe do it very discreetly.

Dunno, maybe one can actually buy the powder somewhere.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Tim Meisburger
16-Apr-2014, 22:34
Nathan, 1/8 to 1/4 pound? You should have set up a second camera set to go off a few seconds later to capture the corpse of the animal -- literally scared to death! Sauntering through the woods at night, minding my own business, and boom! At least I'm sure it would give me a heart attack...:rolleyes:

AtlantaTerry
17-Apr-2014, 00:37
Back in the day, many a photographer lost fingers or worse with that stuff. It is very dangerous. Especially when loading a second charge because sparks may be left over from the first that causes everything to explode. No fun! No wonder flashbulbs were invented...

Tim Meisburger
17-Apr-2014, 02:34
Well, I guess anything is dangerous. Back in the day all pros and essentially all serious amateurs used flash powder, so I guess with a little common sense its not too dangerous. Certainly nowhere near as dangerous as texting while driving. Plus, its fun! And seriously, flash powder doesn't explode, it flashes, so while pouring powder on hot coals might result in a burn, not sure how you could lose fingers.

The reason flash bulbs were invented is because powder makes a terrible mess, particularly indoors.

Jac@stafford.net
17-Apr-2014, 04:04
Back in the day, many a photographer lost fingers or worse with that stuff. It is very dangerous. Especially when loading a second charge because sparks may be left over from the first that causes everything to explode.

Wipe the flash pan with a wet rag, just as canons were swabbed with water between shots.


Tim: "flash powder doesn't explode, it flashes"

It can explode if too much is piled on. The weight of the extra powder can cause enough resistance to contain the burn and cause it to explode.

BetterSense
17-Apr-2014, 04:33
The stuff gets hot enough to erode concrete. Objects two feet away shrivel and burst into flame. But yeah, it doesn't detonate, true.

Shootar401
17-Apr-2014, 04:49
I was given about a 1/2 pound, of what I was told was flash powder but I think the moisture or something as gotten to it since it just burns almost like black power. I ended up burning the rest of it in a coffee can, very uneventful.

It reminds me of the Illuminating trip flares we used in the army. Nail them to a tree (or house), set the trip wire and wait. Of course with our luck they were always tripped by stray dogs and not by Iraqis, Al-Qaeda, or whoever we were trying to kill at the time.

Do they even make flash pans anymore? I never see them on ebay

Drew Bedo
17-Apr-2014, 05:17
This came up in a thread several years ago. At that time I checked Wikipedia and found an extensive article on it.

My take is that this stuff is potentially dangerous to mess around with. Basically, it is an unconfined explosion. Read the Wikipedia article.

Safety issues aside: In the current climate of security concerns I would stay away from this area of photographic history.

mdarnton
17-Apr-2014, 05:45
One man's safety concern is another's safety hysteria. There's a lot of that lately, the expectation that any safety level below an unobtainable 100% is unacceptable, combined with the willingness, no eagerness, to implement draconian restrictions to attempt to achieve that. I am cynical.

Brian C. Miller
17-Apr-2014, 07:12
Do they even make flash pans anymore? I never see them on ebay

Cress Photo flashpans (http://www.flashbulbs.com/specialeffects.htm). They also sell flashbulbs.

Tin Can
17-Apr-2014, 10:00
I'm a pretty careful person. These days...

Here is what I have. The smaller pan has been used. I found the second screw after the photo.

Obviously you put primer cap in the handle, cock it, fill tray with a small amount of powder and pull the trigger.

I will take the caution of filling the tray from a small folded paper and not have the entire jug tipped over a cocked primer.

I think I will need to cock before filling to prevent spilling. Can't be any worse than having a 1962 'dud' firecracker explode in my stupid hands. They were numb for a while.

Also it is good advice to let the pan cool down before adding powder for a second flash.

We see these in movies all the time. Stunt men do not get to have all the fun in life. I also always wear safety glasses as I damn blind.

In movies people seem to raise the pan over their head, to avoid 'the flash in the pan'. I will do the same. perhaps 4th of July, when my neighborhood becomes insane with fireworks and gunshots. A city boy can hear the the difference.

Notice it's called 'smokeless'!

113874

Steven Tribe
17-Apr-2014, 11:03
Very short, as I contributed to a previous thread with similar minded experimenters!

Don't try it.
People really did get badly burned - and they had been using the stuff regularly for decades!
And you can't send it through the post.

Tin Can
17-Apr-2014, 11:33
Steven, you are very knowledgeable. I will not try it. It was sent to me USPS and that's why I expected a knock on my door.

I'll just put it away in my trophy case. Nobody lives with me and no one has access until I pass. I will put a note with it, to be disposed of only by my police friends.

Good idea, to just forget, a bad idea.


Very short, as I contributed to a previous thread with similar minded experimenters!

Don't try it.
People really did get badly burned - and they had been using the stuff regularly for decades!
And you can't send it through the post.

Shootar401
17-Apr-2014, 11:36
You can exist in your safety bubble all you want. But thats Not for me.

Flash powder can be used safely, people just hear horror stoties about it and become scared for no reason.

The flashpans from cress are a bit over my budget, luckily I dug up enough info in them and can prob have ine made to suit.

Tin Can
17-Apr-2014, 11:38
I don't jump out of airplanes either, but many of my friends do.

The wise pick their battles. Tactically.


You can exist in your safety bubble all you want. But thats Not for me.

Flash powder can be used safely, people just hear horror stoties about it and become scared for no reason.

The flashpans from cress are a bit over my budget, luckily I dug up enough info in them and can prob have ine made to suit.

goamules
17-Apr-2014, 12:37
Some of the first wetplate photos taken in dark mines used burning magnesium ribbon. I've had some of that, it's very bright and burns as long as you want it to. Not a quick poof. That would probably be the method to try.

http://thispublicaddress.com/tPA4/archives/photo_history/th_osullivan/

Harold_4074
17-Apr-2014, 17:46
Notice it's called 'smokeless'!

In Ansel Adams' autobiography, he describes his brief career as a portrait photographer. As I recall, he was asked to make a group portrait in a classroom---using flash powder. Apparently, for the first time...and discovered that in a closed room you necessarily have to get it right on the first shot, or wait until the smoke clears for another try.

Tin Can
17-Apr-2014, 17:58
That does sound good and better than burning an entire VW bug engine, which I have seen done.


Some of the first wetplate photos taken in dark mines used burning magnesium ribbon. I've had some of that, it's very bright and burns as long as you want it to. Not a quick poof. That would probably be the method to try.

http://thispublicaddress.com/tPA4/archives/photo_history/th_osullivan/

Nathan Potter
17-Apr-2014, 18:02
One man's safety concern is another's safety hysteria. There's a lot of that lately, the expectation that any safety level below an unobtainable 100% is unacceptable, combined with the willingness, no eagerness, to implement draconian restrictions to attempt to achieve that. I am cynical.

My words exactly. Zero risk with any endeavor is only an ideal. If you want zero risk then don't drive because risk of injury is far from small.

If you employ sensible safety precautions with flash powder and work systematically the risk is small. But you need to understand the mechanics of flash powder explosives. There are a lot of potential mixtures and the oxidizer, fuel material and proportions determine the degree of gas expansion usually quoted in meters/second.

Believe me that it is possible to use mixtures that are very explosive when uncontained as well as mixtures that are slow burning. In order to get a decent color temperature one would typically use a metal as fuel (aluminum dust or magnesium is common) both can produce a 4000 to 6000K flash. With the right oxidizer the flash is explosive (what you want) and very dangerous and can cause burns as vicious as from Thermite. Some oxidizers result in a percussive powder so the mixture should never be ground finely using a mortar and pestle, even as a slurry. The WW1 explosive Amatol (Ammonium Nitrate and TNT, 50%:50%) became scarce during the war so in some instances Aluminum dust was substituted for the TNT. Alternately aluminum dust can be mixed with any of several oxidizers such as Potassium Chlorate, Ammonium Nitrate, even Potassium Permaganate. I used Potassium Permanganate with aluminum dust and a touch of sulfur.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

John Kasaian
17-Apr-2014, 18:08
Sounds like fun. What chemicals do you need to make flash powder?
You can kludge together a pretty efficient rolling mill using lead musket balls and a rock tumbler, but it takes a lot of large musket balls (.50-.69 cal. IIRC)

John "Don't you be sneaking up on my blind side Lefty" Kasaian

goamules
17-Apr-2014, 18:41
Some Moderator close this thread. We don't need a "how to make explosives like Hitler did in church" guide on our forum to make that happen do we?

Tin Can
17-Apr-2014, 18:53
Agreed.

Close it.